Let’s talk through the remaining core Firstborn range from Codex Space Marines and how GW could handle their likely impending ‘update’…
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0:00 Intro
0:38 Firstborn Phase-Out
3:34 Infantry Units
8:21 Vehicles
12:37 Rhino Chassis Tanks
18:06 Flyers and Characters
20:03 Outro
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I remember your podcast, that GW is not planning to move anything to legends, and then like 30 datasheet's gone and most of firstborn dead. So…. Moving units into legends is for money, just to force ppl to buy new minis – they cant play with old ones, so they have to buy new one. It is a shame GW is doin that. It is dishonest to old hobbysts with lots of firsborn minis.
i think they are moving all that to horus heresy
Well to be fair, the land raider has a replacement its the spartan and the land raider proteus.
The drop pod wont go without replacement because in horus heresy there are whole army base on having drop pod.
For the caterferrum dread it just got rule for horu heresy so its not likely going anywhere without a replacement
Rhino and predator tank already have replacement in horus heresy kits
So in short look at the horus heresy range lots of the thing you are saying will go away already have replacement in tha range
Don't worry folks. If any of these tanks do go away, I'm sure they will find a place in an ork army.
when did the scale of the model become a thing that you had to change the whole range
GW needs to give up the ghost and let us shove Primaris tacticus marines into rhinos and razorbacks. The rhino format tanks still look great and also form the basis of many other factions. Taking them away makes no sense.
I really hope they don't remove Devastators or Centurions, I'm barely looking into getting a Centurion Devastator squad and I'm currently making Primaris Devastators, I pray they don't remove these two.
Where do the landraider drivers sit?
The fact that we're even having this conversation is such BS. There's absolutely no reason we can't have our cake and eat it too. The only reason this is happening is because GW is becoming a tournament company. I firmly believe it was the hobbyists that built this franchise, and they truly have the biggest love for it.They don't talk about it, they aren't vocal about it. Why would we want fewer options? Why would we want the very stuff that got us into this HOBBY to go away? GW is marketing to the people with no attention span, no true passion for the Universe, and that simply want to win at tournaments. What has happened?
I really hope predators dont go 🙁 i love the firstborn tanks in general tbh, but that and the Redeemer are my fav tanks in general.
My guess is that the Assault Terminators will receive their new kit with the release and rework of the Dark Angels . And yeah , I think that both Tactical and Devastators will dissapear without getting a real Primaris variant . Which will also see the retirement of at least both the Rhino and the Razorback due to being obsolete then .
Like I've said before … I HATE that they've either removed the firstborne and that they've upscaled other units..
GWs choices so far have really turned me off of their products no matter what the sculpts look like. Plus a lot of the new stuff is mono pose, which means there is even less to to distinguish them from their rivals like Mantic Firefight…which has a better system
Tbh I find drop pods a bit redundant these days with how much that has deep strike, etc. I'd rather put another squad out than one.
The thing that really worries me about this is that I'm a grey knight player and we would need an entire range refresh essentially
I guarantee a new land Raider kit is in the pipeline, and I'd call new chapter cavalry in 11th. Things like raven wing command squads thunderwolves cavalry etc
The other thing with some of these is Grey Knights. Venerable Dread, Rhino/Razorback, Land Raider, and the flyers are all they have with no Primaris type upgrades. Will they get Primaris/True Scale at some point, especially if any of these go away completely for Marines? There's already the weird fact that they still have firstborn Tech Marines (along with Servitors, which are almost guaranteed to go since they have for Marines and Ad Mech).
I'd love to see new storm talon.. that thing is kinda ugly.
Rhinos go and I'm leaving the hobby
I think the Land Raider won't go away completely because, technically, it's also a Custodes kit. Heck it's their only plastic transport option right now. Same with the Rhino as it's also a Sisters of Silence kit. Both are also considered compatible with the Horus Heresy, so that does keep them around.
Naah, GW will never remove the First Born completely. This would render entire armies unplayable. Perhaps this does not bother GW but the resulting shitstorm surely will.
I honestly just feel like GW really gimped themselves by making the Impuslor/Gladiator hover tanks. They are divisive as hell and aren't nearly as iconic and rhinos, land raiders and predators, and don't have that brutal imperial feel.
I bought all the bits for a Marine army reboot for 10th edition.
They're all still in the box.
The Codex muckabout, the state of the game (Making it 'simpler' than 9th and yet now EVERY unit has a goddamn special rule) and the weirdness of Detachments (I don't really like any of them?) and the steady death of all the older units, and I realise this is pure opinion but the FEEL of the Marine army has just robbed me of all enjoyment.
I'll be honest; I strongly dislike mono-loadout units. I don't like the weird 'We're basically making them Legionairres again but not acknowledging it at all' ness. The core of options, adaptable squads and recognisable vehicles and armour marks is just… all gone? They've thrown dozens of 'new' units in that, to me at least, feel pointless. Who asked for Reavers? Why are all the tanks hovertanks now? How did they make Intercessors just Tactical Squads with zero options or Chapter flavour?
It's frustrating and demotivating and, honestly, I'm just going to hold fire on doing anything with them until… well, I don't know how long. Maybe the Ork Codex will respark some enthusiasm?
Or maybe I end up skipping 10th edition, despite all my intial hype, and play a ton of Bolt Action instead 🙁
The new primaris tanks are armed to the teeth compared to the land raider. they will replace it with something that's more in line with the current unit design philosophy in the near future.
I think it would be most sensible for GW to remove the firstborn models from the codex, and do a new separate codex for SM made up of the models you can buy for Horus Heresy range, but use in 40k, essentially leading to two Space Marine Codexes; SM: Primaris and SM: Firstborn, and allow them to ally of course. After all the HH range releases doesn’t seem to be slowing down so it seems strange to lock those models out of 40k. Also this would certainly help with the current bloat the sm codex currently has.
Well, if Primaris learn how to enter a F-king Rhino…
I hope they don’t get rid of drop pods. They’re one of my favorite deployment tools. I’ve actually been wanting a version for chaos marines too.
Man, if Gw phased out the Rhino without updating the kit it would probably the right time to stop buying space marines. Not only is it awesome in lore, visually iconic, generally useful but it feels like it is the base from which one judges all other vehicle profiles. That and off course the air assets and Hover tanks look absolutely dreadful.
Unfortunately, I was forced to completely abandon my Red Scorpion army after GW launched its campaign to replace the Space Marines lineup. I like many primaris models, but I don't want to invest money in an army that can be replaced in 5-10 years (I look at my favorite CSMs with fear).
I won’t buy another model
I will be very supprised if they take away the rhino.
Come over to the loving arms of Chaos. Firstborn are welcome. We love our rhinos and Vindicators and Predators. We still mount our firstbornon bikes and give you options in the squads. Come.
As someone with many devastators made from Horus heresy weapon upgrades, I am very sad
Rhinos are the transport for CSM sisters and custodes. I can't imagine the. Going away any time soon.
This has been a thing since the beginning. Imperial Guard used to have bikes and jump packs, and Vindicators used to be fielded in IG tank companies. Space Marines used to ride dinosaurs. Blood Axes could drive rhinos… heck, every army except Eldar used Rhinos. Squats are obviously the big example. I'm waiting for the day when Custodes become Ultratodes and get replaced with a whole line of models that are just slightly bigger and have a few extra armor ruffles.
Basically, be kind to older players using older models everyone. You never know when YOUR army is gonna hit the chopping block just because it has too many second hand models available on Ebay and GW decides it's time for another purge.
Surely the Primaris equivalent of the Ironclad Dreadnought is the Brutalis?
The drop pod doesn’t need an upgrade to primaries scale, but it should be much easier to assemble
I didn't really mind removing the Bike Squad, as the Outriders are more and less the same. Same with Sternguard, Command Squad, Assault Marines, etc. But I really hope they won't remove the Rhino and Predator – the Impulsor and the Gladiator are just nowhere near as cool. I'm also sad about the boxnoughts going away.
Devastators will likely not be replaced by a single squad – rather, they're being replaced by Hellblasters, Eradicators, Eliminators (with Las-Fusils), Infernus Marines and Desolation Marines. All of which are just… so boring compared to Devastators.
I think blood angels will bring assault terminators and vanguard veterans primarius
What do you mean Will???
Its a matter of "WHEN"
I understand GW updating the range (even if I don’t agree with some designs) but to remove rules completely is very poor. Why don’t they continue with legends. Make the older units slightly sub par so the try hands still have to go out and buy the new ones
I've mostly moved on to other factions(and games), but it's been sad to see the units that I've liked since I was a teenager disappear. I'll have to get a few units before they're gone as well, and then I'll say my Dark Angels army is complete.
I think the number one thing that will keep a lot of firstborn kits around is their presence in the Grey Knights army list, specifically for the Rhino, Razorback, and Dreadnought. Unless we see Primaris Grey Knights, I think these will stick around in Space Marines, because it would allow Games Workshop to see two both Grey Knight players and Space Marine players. With the rules being basically identical for both armies, keeping them balanced would be relatively easy.
I think Chaos Space Marines will go a long way towards keeping Predators and Vindicators in production. If they are producing the kit for one range with similar enough rules, then it can carry over to another range easily enough.
The only real outlier, I feel, is the whirlwind. This has a specific unique role in the army, especially with the Thunderfire cannon removed. Beyond that, it's still another iconic Rhino chassis, and every rhino hull GW makes costs them VERY little. They are an exceptional high-margin kit.
Flyers are sorta lousy overall in 10th edition, and I think GW is aware of this. From a business standpoint, I can see Games Workshop moving to make flyers better rather than retiring the models. If the molds are around and the models aren't badly dated, better to monetize them than dump them. The only way I could see this changing is if we get the lore-only Overlord Drop Ship.
They shouldve just upscaled the tactical marine kit and never made primairs
I'm hoping firstborn vehicles don't disappear even with their primaris counterparts, so many marine players have them already and Land Raiders seems to be selling well despite the standard variant being the oldest marine vehicle kit atm. I don't think anything on the Rhino chassis needs updating but the Land Raider could do with one, just to make assembly a bit easier. It was amazing when the model came out but that top armour panel is a pain with huge gaps in the joins.