Hello from Enthusiastic Steve.
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So a brash statement “Don’t use BIG antennas”.
In this video I will give an example of a large antenna Vs a smaller antenna and compare actual on air reports, show the results on a world map and allow you to make up your own minds if bigger is actually better?
All the best
Enthusiastic Steve
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Thanks a Stack for a Very Interesting vidclip ….. Best to You and Yours from ChCh, NZ
Very interesting. I have a feeling that a car’s metal body works as one heck of ground plane with a higher takeoff angle. I’m not sure the same results would be had if you were to use that shorter antenna in the yard, but I’ve been known to be wrong every now and then. In any case, thanks for the video!
Great video Steve. I have great success with the Ampro 20 and magmount, and it seriously seems to work just as well as the full size 1/4 wave with elevated radial that I set up on the beach.
73 and Happy New Year,
M3KXZ
good video steve ,just subscribed ,ps get the haircut lol
Sorry totally disagree with your findings, the mobile vertical has a lower angle of radiation and therefore the distances achieved will be similar if not better than that of the larger antenna. A better test would have been the 40m delta loop versus a 20m delta loop, after all the title is basically small versus large.
Hello….I am from india & recently I got my Amateur Radio licence. I was confused & worried about how I am going to manage big H.F. Antennas. Your video came as a blessing where you are explaining about alternate to big antenas. Great Video…keep up with good Amateur Radio videos…🙂🙂
Bottom line is that a full wave antenna with the driven element facing the direction you are working is best but of course not always the best option in most cases. I believe we all mostly try our best to use the most effective compromised antenna to use our transceivers. If only I had the property.
Was the test done on the same day as conditions could play a part Steve ??
Try laying a bit of wire on the ground and transmitting using WSPR. You'll be surprised by the results.
Bloody brilliant loved watching this show of yours and wow. I’ve been on CB radio for about 40 years now and I’m just getting very interested in ham radios. And were I live is exactly what you were talking about. Have no room to but up a great big Arial or lots of wire.but I’ve just gone and brought myself a 1/4 wave and pole which I hopefully will be able to put up. Because of neighbours. Thanks again for letting me know about all the things I thought I new but you learn something new everyday. I’m subscribed to your channel now and I’ll let you know what happens next when I get my Arial up. And take my test. Thanks again Alan from DUNSTABLE CT.48-70 hope you have a great new year’s 😱💯🇬🇧🍻👍👍
Try the test again with two antennas designed the same band. Like maybe a true 1/4 20m vertical vs the "Ham stick". The more antenna in the air will always be better when used on the band its designed for. I personally have used and been let down by the "Ham sticks" and wish someone would have told me about the end fed half wave antenna way earlier. its very portable and very easy to deploy.
Yes, antenna is number 1, the rest follows
This is like a differential equation; so many variables. While relying solely on number crunching for efficiency, patterns, height above ground, etc oh and the ever present "expert" opinion of the professional ham, we'd "naturally" conclude the loop antenna would be the winner, it's hard to argue with WSPR. That being said, the loop is NVIS by design and the ham stick isn't, for someone with antenna restrictions this demo could be encouraging, and I'll leave it at that. Thanks for the demonstration.
How do you define 'big' Steve ?
Sounds like you have been watching my videos of homebrew aerials for portable qrp outings. Cannot beat the washing line aerial I use. Cheers from old George. 😂 I love cheapo diy aerials from scrap
i have ben into radios for 35+ years & I always say and Firmly Believe That you can have a 10,000$ radio with a crappy antenna and/or cheep coax and be very disappointed Or ya can have a really good antenna & coax with a 100$ radio & Do Great/Talk Around The World So I Would Argue that Your Antenna & Coax Is The Most Important Part Of Any Station ! Just IMHO & from trying different things!
Well done Steve, and a good representation of the real world. I chase a lot of pota/sota stations and watch the results on YT. and one op Tom K4SWL operates QRP 99.9% of the time at 5 watts or less!! and he oft times uses a whip antenna off the back of his radio sitting on a park bench!. the antenna (AX1 and AX2) have been used and he's achieving grat results with them. each one well over 1K miles of contacts and even into EU on occasion. I have run QRP on and off for over 50 yrs so small antennas and small ourput does work. do not beg off for fears it won't . thanks again for sharing . 73 es 72! de Ellis WA1RKS
I love the phone app. That’s going to be the first digital I try! Thanks VE3WLX
Should really do the same WSPR test between your whip antenna and a dipole antenna! The delta loop has some inherient advantages over the whip so the size factor isn't truly significant!
Long time hame here: remember your antenna system is the most important tool for a radio. I have a postage stamp sized yard or garden, I use a 73' wire that is bent around starting as an inverted L slope from 40' to 15' with a 1:6 UNUN with an elevated counterpoise that is 12' – its my main HF antenna, it works 160 meters up through 6 meters. It's a compromise system, but if you're using it as both a transmitting & receiving antenna. It's all right for what room I have . Also, I have a half-wave inverted V dipole for 40 meters ( remember, that's a more efficient antenna for 40 meters and it hears much,much better on 40 meters than my all-around antenna. Yes a 40 meters antenna will also work on a harmonic for 15 meters band, -transmitting its fine but receiving isn't good. I'm blessed with a radio that has a 3rd antenna port that is for receiving, I use a loop on the ground or L.O.G. antenna for low band reception under noisy conditions. So you can get other antennas to work for the bands you want to work, but you have to keep in mind that both transmitting and receiving levels won't be very good. But as the saying goes, "any port in a storm" or any antenna is better than none.
Good job on the antenna chat Steven. Yah, I know I spelt it wrong. Waddaya gonna do. You`re across the pond and i`m in sunny stuck up Orange County. 73`s catch you on the bands. KD6CFE was here. Hi Hi
Hey Steve.. You should rename your channel "Enthusiastic Steve"!!
Hey Steve.
Just grow the hair out. The Ageing Rockstar is a thing….if you can pull it off
My results vary. Often I simply look homeless, or homeless adjacent.
Anyway, I know it’s been a while, but…
…. What were the figures like between the two antennas. WSPR at 5W is closer to 50W of CW. How many of those signals were better than say -15dB on one antenna over the other ??
I’m working on my _Poke-Out-The-Window-Tenna™️- at the moment….with varying success. My tests so far have simply been a CQ on CW to the local Reverse Beacon and noting down the dB over noise it reports back. Some of those have been as much as 10dB difference between two design ideas.
Hi Stephen, yes the smaller hf verticals will work but the bandwidth you get will be limited, so you need tune them on the portion of the band you like to work on, keep up the good work.
Regards
Dave.
Radiation pattern and orientation of an antenna matter most. I run WSPR full time of several bands. My 80 EFHW does better on 12m than my A99 does. Interesting video. Thanks for sharing. 73 de N1PCE
Hi
I always use the Ampro whips and I have them for all the HF bands.
73 and Happy New year.
G7HFS/PA3IKH
Title is rubbish, content is not. All antennas are a compromise. Wide bandwidth is desirable to many, something you won't see in a loaded 1/4 wave. Most antenna tuners are a transmatch, not an antenna tuner. They don't tune the antenna, but rather, prevent the reflected power from harming the finals of the transmitter. A lot of what you say, has merit in it's narrow scope, but that scope is not enunciated. Beginners should be told to research for their own goals and desires, in addition to what has been presented. This is a learning opportunity for many. Don't take that away with a simple, ' loaded vertical ' is all you need.
Just an opinion and statement from a non-expert that is still learning too.
Thank U Steve for such a wonderful experiment.
i wish you review/examine the Power output @ the Antenna Input connector in both Antenna's
i mean @ the end of the Transmission Line.
i say that because Transmission Line in the Car normally Shorter = hence more power to the Mobile Antenna
Besides some times the Real Output Power of the Radio isn't the same ..
Some times Radio Panel Tells you 5 Watts , But in Realty it's 12 Watts @ CW mode .
Hopefully you repeat this experiment in other video @ (Receive Mode) to determine which Antenna has a better receive signal and lower noise using the Same Radio/Same Sitting with both Antenna's and considering the same type/length of Transmission Line.
Good video.
I am just wondering if I should upgrade my antenna from a Desktop SkyScan discone to a tri band colinnear antenna.
The cost is quite an increase but I have no interest in transmit, just in RX.
I have a video on my channel using OpenWebRX+ across the network to a Chromebook which works really well with an SDRdx and a MLA30+ for Hf bands.
Its just the VHF side I want to upgrade
So much wrong with this. I am 100% a fan of your premise, getting whatever you can up in the air and making some contacts, but the idea that a hamstick (or any similar compromise antenna) will be as efficient as the big loop is preposterous… and don't forget tx is only half the equation. I say this as someone that actually likes and uses hamstick antennas while mobile.
Thanks for this video, Stephen. I'm cramming for my General license – just to see if I can get it. Didn't much care about the added HF because I've not got the money for a big-time tower and fancy antenna array. BUT, now I see that I may actually get interested in HF with the ability to get on the air "for cheap" (relatively speaking, that is. I still need a new radio to do this). Taking the test on the 20th of January. Wish me luck! I'm 78 and the old brain is not good at remembering ANYTHING! Ha.
I work the world from ZL with a ground mounted aluminium flag pole, with an ATU at the base.
At this QTH, that is all there is room for. 🙂
I rather observe it on reception that in some circumstances a bigger antenna doesn't help. Example 1: receiving the QO-100 satellite with a satellite dish. At a certain dish size, the received noise is dominated by the transverter noise of the satellite and further increase of the dish size does not proportionallly improve reception. Example 2: HF in a noisy band and you already have to reduce gain (RFG, IPO, attenuate etc. depending on the manufacturer). Then you can switch to a smaller antenna and re-increase the gain accordingly without noticable difference. Maybe an effect by how the RF bounces off the troposphere that more antenna gain does not reflect in better SNR ? Or, the directivity of the bigger antenna does not help you if it is not on a rotor and not aiming exactly at the station you want to receive? However in TX a bigger antenna with accordingly higher directivity, aiming at the other station, should always improve things, so maybe it is just your delta loop that despite being bigger, does not have more gain.
How were both done on the same band when your mobile is 20 meters and your delta loop is 40 meters?
I couldn't tell what polarity the delta loop was but a vertical is hard to beat.
Use whatever you can get out. An interesting experiment.
My outside area is 15' x 25' and I've squeezed a 60m inverted vee in, 5 dipoles in the attic for 20m to 10m and a 2m 2 element collinear in the bedroom, all homebrew and 5 Watts max.
Getting on 10m here, worked Sicily and Bulgaria recently both about 1400 miles with one Watt c.w. How much further was my signal actually going?
Some beacons coming in. On Sunday the furthest I heard was K5AB beacon in Texas, website says 20 Watts into a ground plane, I received it at 3.2.9.
G4GHB.
So 40m delta loop had similar results to a 20m whip on 20 meters who’d thought ..how’s the whip on 40?