Today we take a look at just how close the Royal Navy came to engaging the Russian 2nd Pacific Squadron, and what the most likely outcome of that would have been.
Sources:
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1974/march/north-sea-incident-1904
The History of the Russo-Japanese War – Sydney Tyler
The Tsar’s Last Armada
MARITIME OPERATIONS IN THE RUSSO-JAPANESE WAR, 1904–1905 – Volume 2 – Sir Julian Corbett
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Pinned post for Q&A 🙂
A fascinating look at what might have been.
However, when you talk about the Russian squadron being "interred" at Gibraltar, I really hope you meant "interned". The former is a funerary rite, while the latter is simple imprisonment.
Yay, the 2nd Pacific Squadron!
Pop a cold one and get the popcorn, it's going to get entertaining! ^^
destroyer development pt.3 when
Completely agree with your analysis. Rosesvenski was a realist. His mission was Japan not the RN. Likely would have communicated with St. Petersburg before attacking, assuming a mistake had been made. He would not have thrown away his nation's only chance to affect the Pacific situation.
He could have given an attack order specifically to the Kamchatka and just watch the show… XD
Naval trawlet?
I may be missing something obvious but what if following Dogger Bank the Russians decided to side step the British fleet and simply headed west. Could they have reached American ports to resupply and refit? Could the Russian fleet used the recently opened Panama Canal to enter the Pacific? They could have sailed North, topped off supplies in San Fransico and the headed the Western Pacific? It seems plausible and I believe American policy would have offered no impediment. I don’t believe the British would have wanted to expand this incident to include America by menacing the Russians in American waters or ports.
Rozhestvensky may be rational and value the lives of his men, but is the Tzar and does the Tzar value the lives of Rozhestvensky's men? I could easily see the Tsar or some Grand Duke or other relative in an important position order Rozhestvensky that if he is cornered to fight to the death for the honor of the motherland etc.
He wouldn’t throw away his men but he would throw away the entire box of binoculars
What if Britain had gone to war?
Um When hasn't Britain gone too war ! ?? lol
Very interesting what if
We needed a Rozhéstvenski at Mers al kabir.
"…you can come quietly, or you can die." Drach and I clearly share a similar sense of humor.
Came here for the Rozhestvensky's binocular comments, was not disappointed.
This is especially fascinating because had this happened 5 or so years earlier Great Britain would have definitely used the incident to instigate a war with Russia with a real possibility of German-British anti-Russian alliance. World would have looked drastically different had that happened
2nd Pacific Squadron story deserves a mini series on Netflix. It has it all, vodka, action, adventure, comedy and tragedy. If there was romance, we don't want to know. Even a Science Fiction show that modified and copied the story, – it's Gold. Titanic X 30.
I came for the senseless violence. I left vastly more informed and entertained.
Don't need a thirty minute video to know the entire Russain squadren would have been sunk in less time than it takes you bits to make a cup of tea. But I shall watch anyway.
Yaaaaaaasssssss!!!!
I really enjoyed this, it illustrates the strategic and political situation so well.
Alternatively he stalls long enough to communicate with Moscow last, who's tangential grip on reality results in him being ordered to fight to the last shell. He had, after all been sent to die anyway.
Algorithm Engagement Comment.
Think of all the hardship Rozhezventsky could have been saved if he had been annihilated by the British in the channel or off Portugal or Gibraltar instead of sailing halfway around the world to meet that fate. Dudeski just couldn't catch a break with a net.
That's a lot of preparation to be ready to sacrifice millions of pounds or rubles, and hundreds of lives, over accidentally sinking 1 fishing boat.
Yes, the Russians were idiots to think Japanese torpedo boats were to be found in the North Sea, having experience with their own torpedo boats (and based on current events they clearly haven't had any great increase in IQ over the last century).
But the idea of nations going to war and fleets battling it out, with potentially great loss, over something as simple as "Our bad, won't do it again, here's a thousand rubles for a new boat and another hundred for some lost cod" seems, to me at least, to be quite ludicrous.
I would like to see you review RSS Panglima, Singapore's first naval ship
Admiral Togo would be PISSED! Stealing his Kill😘
Either looking at what really happened or in a What-if scenario such as this one, you can't help but having some simpathy for Rozhestvensky. A proper candidate to the "Semper Iratus" tittle after Admiral King. The man had some solid balls of steel and a good brain, as well.
One minor quip on this one, Drach. Kamchatka didn't pull any shenanigans, like sinking a trawler off the coast of Vigo, ramming the wharf at Tangiers or happily signaling the Royal Navy to stay away or risk be sunk.
Cheers!
I have always wondered who would win a strategic war one on one. WWII era British Empire v. Japanese Empire.
The diplomatic side is mostly new to me, and it's kind of amazing: history somehow found a way to make the 2nd Pacific Squadron's experience even worse than it seemed before.
Several people have probably made this comment already but I came away from this video with, "I can take you in warm, or I can take you in cold." stuck in my head.
What a treat to find more flesh on the story of the Voyage of the Damned! From the (now recovered) Covid patient you made laugh with the first video. Thanks Drach!
How am I just seeing this video now?!
Would have been better for Imperial Russia if the British Fleet had sunk the 2nd Pacific Squadron since then the Tsar could claim it was two on one war, thus losing and ending the war with a peace treaty that had British negotiator influencing the Imperial Japan to lessen their demand, the British didn't want their Ally in the Pacific to win so decisively against a European power lest other Asian country might think they could do the same to the British and other colonial power in manner similar to Imperial Japan did to Imperial Russia.
I firmly believe that if war did break out. They would have actually gone with the plan to meet them ship for ship. Because deploying Home Fleet against them would be the furthest thing from Cricket possible.