Gurwinder Bhogal is a programmer and a writer.
Gurwinder is one of my favourite Twitter follows. He’s written yet another megathread exploring human nature, cognitive biases, mental models, status games, crowd behaviour and social media. It’s fantastic, and today we go through some of my favourites.
Expect to learn why every debate is fundamentally an argument about the definition of words, whether modern men are right to believe they would be better off living in medieval times, why people fighting injustice might actually be suffering with an identity crisis, why so many people go shopping for their opinions online, how the culture divide we have today stemmed from our tribal roots, why over analysing Tweets is a waste of your time and much more…
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00:00 The Internet is Saturated with Garbage
10:27 Why People Compare Opponents to Nazis So Quickly
14:34 Why is Happiness Evolutionary?
26:09 When Incels Think They Would Be Better Suited to Medieval Times
36:33 A Crisis of Purpose is a Privilege
41:00 Why Activists Can Never Be Content
47:14 We Don’t Take Expert Advice Unless We Agree With It
56:26 Does Karma Really Exist?
1:00:10 The Issue with Tribalism in the Digital Age
1:08:00 Intelligent People Can Often Have Stupid Opinions
1:17:09 Challenging Chris’s Vestigial Pattern Bias
1:26:15 The War for Public Sympathy on Social Media
1:39:30 Why the Female Boss Role in Hollywood Isn’t Working
1:47:27 Societal Consequences of Grind Culture
1:52:57 Judging People from the Past Whilst Ignoring the Sins of the Present
2:03:24 Where to Find Gurwinder
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Hello you beauties. Access all episodes 10 hours earlier than YouTube by Subscribing on Spotify – https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts – https://apple.co/2MNqIgw. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 The Internet is Saturated with Garbage
10:27 Why People Compare Opponents to Nazis So Quickly
14:34 Why is Happiness Evolutionary?
26:09 When Incels Think They Would Be Better Suited to Medieval Times
36:33 A Crisis of Purpose is a Privilege
41:00 Why Activists Can Never Be Content
47:14 We Don’t Take Expert Advice Unless We Agree With It
56:26 Does Karma Really Exist?
1:00:10 The Issue with Tribalism in the Digital Age
1:08:00 Intelligent People Can Often Have Stupid Opinions
1:17:09 Challenging Chris’s Vestigial Pattern Bias
1:26:15 The War for Public Sympathy on Social Media
1:39:30 Why the Female Boss Role in Hollywood Isn’t Working
1:47:27 Societal Consequences of Grind Culture
1:52:57 Judging People from the Past Whilst Ignoring the Sins of the Present
2:03:24 Where to Find Gurwinder
The very last point gave me an idea. When Gurwinder was talking about how people in the past had to be brutal, that it was required for the times. It kind of reminded me of the saying "standing on the shoulders of giants" but could instead be rewritten as “we are standing on the shoulders of monsters that raised us up out of the hell that they had to endure”
12:10 that's the thing of it, when you don't like the valid point being made and can't argue against it, just try to claim the words being used don't mean that point being presented as if that somehow makes the point being presented not themselves point being presented. A total breakdown in comprehending how words serve as a tool to communicate ideas, but that words don't define what idea is being communicated. It's the intended idea the speaker is wanting to communicate that defines the idea being communicated, not the words being used nor the listener's preferred definitions of those words.
Damn, I hadn't heard someone with the same opinion as me when it comes to DID, "real" or not, they do it to deal with their life, as crap or as good as it is
Btw about deserving in nature, let me enlighten you: you poke a bear (cause), you deserve to get mauled by the bear (effect), regardless of your intention or inherent factors of the action of poking
so, "deserving" is in direct relation to what you do but it doesn't mean the outcome will be favourable to you, given the various examples of evil getting away with evil and good not being rewarded with an equal outcome, another example: "you deserve better", but you don't have it, and maybe you never will, but you can (only) try and increase your chances of getting it
I'm curious what you both think about how humans will adapt when catastrophic ecological overshoot finally catches up with the wealthy people in the world. "Hedonic adaptation" – will it work in reverse as we get used to a much simplified life (technologically)? Also hope you can discuss the idea of "progress" — I look at it as primarily a bad thing because of the destructive impacts to the natural world (which will eventually cause collapse for humanity) — but this is an idea that everyone assumes is only a good thing. Thx, great conversation.
When he endorsed eating lab made "meat" it was clear he was not a serious person about eating healthy and should be disregarded.
Fantastic to have Gurwinder back. The conversation is always enlightening. The part about intricately researched bullshit papers produced by academics was particularly enjoyable.
This was a good one
I've increased my meat intake to spite the WEF.
…ahaaaaa The west is more " humane" …yeah right….How many people like me and you died in japan when the Humane West used the atomic bomb???? we are all the same…probably the West even worse…Iraq, Siria Afganistan Vietnam…all illegal wars…Invading countries…what a shame…
..Assad is a horrible human being right???…what about Bush ? This is the problem with most of us…BIASED
The last point you discussed is explained by Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs
So good! Thank you both Chris and Gurwinder! 😘
Toma'oes
Brilliant! You’ve completely smashed the culture war’s narrative! Re: 25-40mins in. Thank you! Saving and keeping for reference. Beautifully articulated.
1:31:30 Ugh, slightly disappointed with this one. I have loved all the Gurwinder Bhogal episodes but this one reminded me to maintain a higher level of scepticism when viewing anything online. I have been a subscriber since well before episode 100 and this is the first time I have been compelled to comment any critique…
* I urge you to read "The Girl in the Green Dress" by Jeni Haynes and George Blair-West before dispelling DID/MPD as a myth *
I agree that for the majority of cases you see online are very likely to be click bait; an easy way to boost engagement on tending platforms and a cry for attention/public sympathy. Unfortunately due to the media's representation of MPD/DID in popular criminal investigations (Billy Milligan) and movies (split), most people have an extremely misinformed idea of what DID/MPD actually is and the unfortunate circumstances that necessitate its development. DID/MPD is and extreme psychological mechanism that manifests in response to equally extreme circumstances of childhood physical/sexual/emotional abuse. Whilst a lot rarer than what TikTok makes it out to be, I believe DID/MPD does occur and more nuance is required in addressing its existence.
My pet hate in an online argument is when people don't follow their own standards. They'll make fallacies such as strawman, ad hominem, argument from authority etc… but if you mimic their style they'll dismiss everything you've said as strawman, ad hominem, argument from authority. If you're going to put it on the table you can't object when other people use it.
Some of these people are decent trolls. Others aren't self aware enough and frankly not too bright.
Poor meat is suffering!
Meditation might be the original atelic activity. The old people sat purely for the sake of sitting, and would be quite puzzled by our idea of mindfulness or meditating on something.
Whole plant-based food is not expensive. There are folks who've been vegan for decades no matter how little money they had. Stop justifying the bloody unjustifiable. Putting animal rights before taste pleasure/convenience/etc……. plus realigning our actions with our innate morals is freeing!! see! it's not all about the nonhuman animals, human animals get something out of it too.
"DID doesn't exist" will come as a surprise to psychiatrists. And I'm not eating lab-made meat under any conditions.
Would love if all these aphorisms and ideas (and from the George Mack episode) we’re all published in a book or .pdf! Thanks for the epic episode! 🇦🇺
Don't like smug morons who think they know way more than they actually do, but there were some great points here 👍
I disagree with Gurwinder on how lab meat is the future. I think we need to look at smaller scale ethical farming, investment in crop cycling and have a hybrid diet.
Personally I use protein powders to lower my meat intake recently as I’m self aware that I’m contributing to suffering however it’s hard to live in this world without doing so. Slave labour tech and clothing etc.
It’s down to each of us to make small choices like this now to stop global interests mandating what you can do later on
Amazing episode. I will listen to It again in the future, as I have done with the previous episodes. I also leave wanting to learn more about the world. Cheers from Spain ❤
Why do people call others a nazi? Because they've been so brainwashed by the media that they think nazi's were some looney toons cartoonish pure evil characters.
Like nazis were evil just for the sake of being evil. Why is it that Hitler is the first person that comes to mind when people think of evil, when even by the ''official'' textbook numbers, Stalin and Mao are like much much worse. Yet nobody cares when you fly a soviet flag, but you're put on the news and often put in prison for waving a nazi flag.
We lost WW2, and more and more people are realizing it as the years go by. My spirit will rise from the grave and the world will see i was right.
🎉😊❤ Thank you so much, Chris for your fascinating podcasts.
Yesterday I recommended your podcasts to two beautiful hair sylists because I think you are a fine communicator from the perspective of your generation.
🎉😊❤ Fun, fantastic and full of intelligent and compassionate curiosity.
One potential escape from the happiness treadmill is the idea of detachment, merely observing your feelings, emotions and desires but letting them have no impact on your rather existential state, thus finding contentment inside yourself rather than making it dependent on your successes. Buddhism is to a significant extent focused on this idea (or similar, at least), and you can see various similar notions in stoicism, Christianity and I'm sure many other religions, philosophies and whatnot else.
I've never heard of Mr. Bhogal until today, but I like him. I came to a similar conclusion about the word "deserve" some time ago–most things people think they "deserve" are a product of an advanced society with huge amounts of infrastructure that requires massive amounts of time, energy, and money to maintain. It's easy to think water comes from the faucet when one cannot see the miles of pipes that brought it there.
I think our one point of disagreement would be on meat. I have many concerns about lab-grown meat that I don't think are too conspiratorial:
How much time, energy, money, and resources are required to create the nutrient bath that the meat grows in? Is this process sustainable?
Where do we get the nutrients necessary to grow lab-grown meat?
How close is the nutrient quality of lab-grown meat to that of an animal that comes from our highest quality farms (quality in this instance meaning happiest animals)?
How complex is it to grow lab-grown meat? Is it something that poor people could do in their backyard, like raising chickens or quails?
I am generally skeptical of any process that removes production even further beyond the reach of ordinary people. It's a bias, for sure, but it seems that many critical details get hidden behind the complexity which make something like lab-grown meat (or factory farming) easier to swallow.
For instance, most of modern agriculture utilizes tillage to grow annual crops like wheat and corn. Tillage kills many animals and disrupts large ecosystems by its nature. Pesticides may be even worse. So how much do we factor in the suffering and death of those animals? How many groundhogs killed by tilling for wheat equate to a cow's suffering or a pig's suffering, presuming the nutrition that would have been supplied by the cow or pig is supplied by wheat?
Don't get me wrong, I abhor factory farming. However, I don't know if it is possible to completely eliminate suffering from our food supply when the final accounting is done. Better to get at the devil in the details, like Temple Grandin, whenever possible. At least with a pig raised by Joel Salatin, I can rest assured knowing that the pig had a pretty good life in which it could express its "pigness".
The conversations you both have are amongst my favourite episodes.
There are many problems with lab grown meat 1. The fact that it takes meat away from the common folk. Yes it might be cheap and plentiful, but it wont be available to the someone with NO money.
2. It will be patented. There will be megacorps pushing weirdo stuff that gets rubber stamped by agencies their colleges are in charge of
3. These products are absolutely not going to be tested fully. Certainly not against fertility rates or other 'abstract' things that MAY be caused by environmental factors, so apparently why check if they're one of them.
There's a reason humanity is just barely getting a grip on how awful gyphosphate is for the gut
In regards to saying if men now aren't successful with women they wouldn't have been several hundred years ago. On a personal note I was quite successful with women perhaps 4 or 5 years ago and have gotten less and less until now I have not been able to get a date with someone I find desirable for almost 2 years. This is despite the fact that I'm now significantly more successful and put together than those years ago. So I'd argue on a personal level at least things have changed significantly in just our lifetime even.
Great exchange! Though I believe I disagree with CW's seeming straw-man version of the distress of an existential crisis (and there's a lot to say about trauma, also), I found this to be a very stimulating and very important conversation for thinking about our time and place!
one of the worst interviews i've seen here, sadly. people are not nostalgic for the days gone for nothing, maybe the food was not as abundant but it had a ton more minerals and a shit less toxins. People in the 2000s were much happier and they didn't have high speed internet and 100inch tv's and phones with a computational power of a 100 suns :)) . There are intangible things that were much better, also HISTORY DOESN'T START 5000 YEARS AGO. Living in a tribe 100.000 years ago could be much better then living now but of course being the pinacle of fucking civilization means we can't think about these things, there's no freakin way it's not getting better by the minute?
I wish I could like this twice. Speechless. Amazing episode.
Imagine only hearing about Godwin's law in 2023…
Ground Truth is a good news
Great episode….but….watch movies before you comment on them! Rey does not match your preconceived notions, as there are a lot of struggles in the last 3 movies. Loved the insight and interaction! Keep up the great work!
Gratitude is one thing but to be an adult one must have a sense of responsibility and purpose. I believe we in the UK have a responsibility to change what money is; to reject the use of bank credit as money and make money truly a public good. We are here due to the technological developments of our ancestors and we have a responsibility to do our best to develop our technology, most importantly our money, for the benefit of future generations. People yearn for something different because deep down they know that it doesn't have to be like this, they're just too scared to change it.
Einstellung effect == Original Antigenic Sin?
Bingo, Gurwinder. You've noticied that UA doesn't have any alternative to the cluster bombs, as US and EU combined, it turns out, don't have industrial capacity as Russia does. Therefore "don't judge UA, what else would it use instead?". Right?
However, man, why not apply the same logic to Russia? Why not be balanced? Why not put yourself in its shoes?
You'd then realize why Russia hadn't had any alterntive but to start this conflict first either. It'd been backed into corner with NATO expansion, hostility and anti-Russia propaganda in UA and West/USA for a decade at least.
For how many years did Russia and Putin tried to avoid it? How many times Russia and Putin were lied to by the EU and US? How about the war in Donbass 2012-2022? How about the "security framework" drafted by Russia and Putin in Dec 2021 — a few months before the conflict? EU and US ignored it. Minsk agreements? Germany admitted that it – Germany – lied.
How many times the Western and US media misrepresented and lied about the situation in Donbass and demonized Russia? Countless. If you're even aware about all of this.
Read the alternatives sources, man. Read the russian ones too. You'll notice the double standards of the US and West.
And also read how the West and USA would talk about UA prior to the conflict. "Most corrupt nation. Azov — na33ies" and other things like this. And then, suddenly, "democrasy! fighting for its freedom"