I really agree with your idea of shipping being just a voyeuristic pleasure for certain people and not necessarily about putting yourself in the mix because that's how I personally engage with it. This is why I hate when people argue, especially for problematic/darker ships, that you're just self-inserting due to your attraction for the other half of the ship because why else would you possibly like this problematic pairing when it's "morally wrong" or "doesn't make any sense". I feel like this assumption ignores some important facts: 1) Shipping has never been based on logic but your feelings; 2) You can genuinely like two characters together despite the inherent problematic nature; 3) Just because you're attracted to the character doesn't mean you actually want to date them (at least in my case) OR you might not even be attracted to the character(s) in the first place; and 4) Character x reader was specifically created to satisfy that itch and it's incredibly popular. Personally I never read or engage with any character x reader content. My brain simply doesn't compute that whole thing. It will automatically turn the reader, myself, into a whole separate character that's completely disconnected from me and it's just like I'm reading the fic in a 2nd POV of this character.
i actually love u you so much. Nostalgia hit hard u dont know what u did to me and what i did back when…… i was there, when this was written & i was the one who wrote it…
Darek could easely have been a college student, wich would solve some problems: 1. give him someting to do 2. define his age a little more 3. I didn't watched the whole show, but i'm sure it could provide interting plot devices
i never seen sterek in the show but boy oh boy did i consume a looot of sterek fanfictions just bc of the sheer volume and quality it produced (i will read anything if its good) and i really love how the fandom turned really underdeveloped character of derek into like an actual human who has trauma responses!!! bc showrunners really gave him like more reasons for suffering than jesus and then never addressed it lmao
i loved your analysis of stiles as more gender fluid character! stiles was a most relatable character for meeee in the whole show (and i grew up lesbian lol)
i love the video and respect the centerism on it. your videos do a good job at respecting all sides and i love that perspective on fandom as i feel very similarly lol. i saw supernatural and i think it broke a little piece of my heart again. LOL i’m more of a late show/post canon sterek truther. i do think the weird timeline and casting shenanigans make it a little less deep than people make it out to be. but i get why it’s not for everyone, i do enjoy how you laid all the different aspects of it out here.
I have never seen a single episode of Teen Wolf in my life but I remember that in 2019 I went through a Sterek hyperfixation (mainly because I had a crush on Tyler Hoechlin since I saw him in the CW series Supergirl) i remember that I read almost all the Sterek famfics on wattpad and I spent the time watching Sterek edits on YouTube, and looking back its crazy to me how I became obsessed with this ship even though I wasn't a fan of Teen Wolf
Oh HUNNEY, the Fanfictions helped the ship sooo much it was inevitable for it to be IMMENSE, cause the Writers were doing the DAMNED thing. The way i NEVER read as much as when i first started reading Sterek fanfics is something that HAS to be studied, and even the bad ones sometimes were better than what JD could come up with. The Girlies truly GIRLED💅🏽💅🏽💅🏽
I loved the article you linked, it was really valuable to me. I'm not trans masc but I am a kinda trans femme enby, and the things it talked about (like in that fanart analysis and trans bodies being allowed to simply exist) I think are valuable ideas and hit me in the feels. I also empathise with being kinda a sterek centrist but still having a finger on the pulse of the thing lol
I was in the fandom and definitely a sterek shipper. "Only a few years older" (few generally meaning 3-5), coupled with no job definitely had me thinking 19 at most for Derek. Allison's aunt definitely seemed older than derek so that was the age gap that flagged for me at the time.
As far as canon backing: they just seemed to have more respect for each other than they did for the others. But, really, for me: they were the parents of the group in the early season. The pairing seemed natural
With respect to the age gap issue, one point you didn't address is that the widespread fannish cultural norm until very recently was that shipping is not real life, these are not real people, and that creating and consuming fanworks does not equate to you putting your uncritical stamp of moral approval on every aspect of their content. The age gap, rather than being a deterrent to the fandom, was a part of the appeal of the ship — it's one of the factors that makes the relationship between the characters ~interesting~ to explore in fannish content. For anything to really take off in fandom, it HAS to be at least a little bit messy — that's what makes it fun to play with! — and there was a general fannish understanding at that time that shipping something or engaging with it in a fictional context isn't a signal that you endorse the thing happening in real life. Somewhere in the intervening years*, though, a lot of people forgot how to separate fiction from reality. :
(*It was Voltron fandom, but that doesn't need exploring at this juncture.)
Been in and out of different fandoms for maybe a decade and until now i thought ppl were just being dramatic and talking about god when saying "the powers that be"
19:05 I FORGOT ABOUT DEAGED DEREK HOLY FUCKING SHIT THE QUEERBAITING WAS INSANE WHAT DO U MEAN!!!!! edit: no, they took this storyline FROM the fanfics themselves. de-aging was super common in the fandom before season 4.
Bruh just look at the DINLUKE fandom. The Mandalorian and Luke Skywalker met once and we- sorry they, went gaga Lol so I can see why Sterek went insane at the time
Oh god I remember that Teen Choice Awards video, I hadn't watched teen wolf at the time nor did I know what Sterek was, but one of my best friends really liked it (more ths ship than the show xD) ans showed it to me, the shippers really were going crazy
I think that queer shippers of sterek and other popular tumblr ships of the era between two men also are seeking the representation of a complex, ever changing, slow-burn dynamic that was not often an option for on-screen queer couples within the genre of network teen television. It is very rare to see the sort of rollarcoaster-ish complicated relationship format that straight fictional teens would experience with on-screen queer couples. These pairings often had quite cut and dry relationship storylines – to put it simply they were boring. So it makes sense that queer teens looking for an engaging relationship storyline in a genre geared towards them would grasp at straws to create their own.
Miss Jane, I have never watched this show in my life yet you have me watching a FOURTH Teen Wolf video and I am still hooked. Your in depth contextualization of this series seriously needs an award. This video is no different. The part on how Stiles is queer-coded you are DONE! So good, so entertaining. I truly love your videos and you could talk about paint drying and I would watch. P.S. I have more anticipation for your "Wrong" series video than literally any movie or video that is coming out this year.
i didnt watch teen wolf but i loved sterek and transmasc!stiles as i was becoming more comfortable as a bi trans guy person lol (im nonbinary now but still transmasc n stuff gender is weird). i DEFINITELY identified with stiles and was vicariously living through STerek both as imagining myself as stiles with derek and the ig voyeurish way that i was attracted to both. anyway the "fujoshi"/cisgirl shipper to gay/bi+++ transmasc ppl pipeline is so real
I really agree with your idea of shipping being just a voyeuristic pleasure for certain people and not necessarily about putting yourself in the mix because that's how I personally engage with it. This is why I hate when people argue, especially for problematic/darker ships, that you're just self-inserting due to your attraction for the other half of the ship because why else would you possibly like this problematic pairing when it's "morally wrong" or "doesn't make any sense". I feel like this assumption ignores some important facts: 1) Shipping has never been based on logic but your feelings; 2) You can genuinely like two characters together despite the inherent problematic nature; 3) Just because you're attracted to the character doesn't mean you actually want to date them (at least in my case) OR you might not even be attracted to the character(s) in the first place; and 4) Character x reader was specifically created to satisfy that itch and it's incredibly popular. Personally I never read or engage with any character x reader content. My brain simply doesn't compute that whole thing. It will automatically turn the reader, myself, into a whole separate character that's completely disconnected from me and it's just like I'm reading the fic in a 2nd POV of this character.
i actually love u you so much. Nostalgia hit hard
u dont know what u did to me
and what i did back when…… i was there, when this was written & i was the one who wrote it…
Darek could easely have been a college student, wich would solve some problems:
1. give him someting to do
2. define his age a little more
3. I didn't watched the whole show, but i'm sure it could provide interting plot devices
Haven't watched Teen Wolf but watched this almost one hour long video, and it was so insightful?
This pairing is why we have an omegaverse explosion now btw
i never seen sterek in the show but boy oh boy did i consume a looot of sterek fanfictions just bc of the sheer volume and quality it produced (i will read anything if its good)
and i really love how the fandom turned really underdeveloped character of derek into like an actual human who has trauma responses!!! bc showrunners really gave him like more reasons for suffering than jesus and then never addressed it lmao
i loved your analysis of stiles as more gender fluid character! stiles was a most relatable character for meeee in the whole show (and i grew up lesbian lol)
Curious to know what you think of Thiam. I do not ship Sterek at all but oh my gosh I love Thiam
i love the video and respect the centerism on it. your videos do a good job at respecting all sides and i love that perspective on fandom as i feel very similarly lol. i saw supernatural and i think it broke a little piece of my heart again. LOL
i’m more of a late show/post canon sterek truther. i do think the weird timeline and casting shenanigans make it a little less deep than people make it out to be. but i get why it’s not for everyone, i do enjoy how you laid all the different aspects of it out here.
When you mentioned Supernatural, I said “oh no” outloud
i really need a marauders or wolfstar video from you
describing stiles as narratively androgynous is EXACTLY right – i had never thought of it in those terms but you hit the nail on the head
I beg of you please make a video about theo and Liam and what could have been had they casted an older actor for Liam
I have never seen a single episode of Teen Wolf in my life but I remember that in 2019 I went through a Sterek hyperfixation (mainly because I had a crush on Tyler Hoechlin since I saw him in the CW series Supergirl) i remember that I read almost all the Sterek famfics on wattpad and I spent the time watching Sterek edits on YouTube, and looking back its crazy to me how I became obsessed with this ship even though I wasn't a fan of Teen Wolf
Oh HUNNEY, the Fanfictions helped the ship sooo much it was inevitable for it to be IMMENSE, cause the Writers were doing the DAMNED thing.
The way i NEVER read as much as when i first started reading Sterek fanfics is something that HAS to be studied, and even the bad ones sometimes were better than what JD could come up with.
The Girlies truly GIRLED💅🏽💅🏽💅🏽
Tbh I hated any ship with stiles bc I shipped him with ME
I loved the article you linked, it was really valuable to me. I'm not trans masc but I am a kinda trans femme enby, and the things it talked about (like in that fanart analysis and trans bodies being allowed to simply exist) I think are valuable ideas and hit me in the feels.
I also empathise with being kinda a sterek centrist but still having a finger on the pulse of the thing lol
I was in the fandom and definitely a sterek shipper. "Only a few years older" (few generally meaning 3-5), coupled with no job definitely had me thinking 19 at most for Derek. Allison's aunt definitely seemed older than derek so that was the age gap that flagged for me at the time.
As far as canon backing: they just seemed to have more respect for each other than they did for the others. But, really, for me: they were the parents of the group in the early season. The pairing seemed natural
With respect to the age gap issue, one point you didn't address is that the widespread fannish cultural norm until very recently was that shipping is not real life, these are not real people, and that creating and consuming fanworks does not equate to you putting your uncritical stamp of moral approval on every aspect of their content. The age gap, rather than being a deterrent to the fandom, was a part of the appeal of the ship — it's one of the factors that makes the relationship between the characters ~interesting~ to explore in fannish content. For anything to really take off in fandom, it HAS to be at least a little bit messy — that's what makes it fun to play with! — and there was a general fannish understanding at that time that shipping something or engaging with it in a fictional context isn't a signal that you endorse the thing happening in real life. Somewhere in the intervening years*, though, a lot of people forgot how to separate fiction from reality. :
(*It was Voltron fandom, but that doesn't need exploring at this juncture.)
Been in and out of different fandoms for maybe a decade and until now i thought ppl were just being dramatic and talking about god when saying "the powers that be"
having to watch the destiel confession scene again made me have to turn the computer screen away
the we're on a ship video haunts me fucking dreams at night. fuck destiel, sterek was queerbait like nothing else BY A GAY MAN OF ALL PEOPLE
19:05 I FORGOT ABOUT DEAGED DEREK HOLY FUCKING SHIT THE QUEERBAITING WAS INSANE WHAT DO U MEAN!!!!!
edit: no, they took this storyline FROM the fanfics themselves. de-aging was super common in the fandom before season 4.
Bruh just look at the DINLUKE fandom. The Mandalorian and Luke Skywalker met once and we- sorry they, went gaga Lol so I can see why Sterek went insane at the time
this video made me feel so much nostalgia but also reminded me how much i hate that wolf show
Oh god I remember that Teen Choice Awards video, I hadn't watched teen wolf at the time nor did I know what Sterek was, but one of my best friends really liked it (more ths ship than the show xD) ans showed it to me, the shippers really were going crazy
38:34 dont call me out like this omggg
43:21 noooooooooo ur right but but noooooo
I think that queer shippers of sterek and other popular tumblr ships of the era between two men also are seeking the representation of a complex, ever changing, slow-burn dynamic that was not often an option for on-screen queer couples within the genre of network teen television. It is very rare to see the sort of rollarcoaster-ish complicated relationship format that straight fictional teens would experience with on-screen queer couples. These pairings often had quite cut and dry relationship storylines – to put it simply they were boring. So it makes sense that queer teens looking for an engaging relationship storyline in a genre geared towards them would grasp at straws to create their own.
Miss Jane, I have never watched this show in my life yet you have me watching a FOURTH Teen Wolf video and I am still hooked. Your in depth contextualization of this series seriously needs an award. This video is no different. The part on how Stiles is queer-coded you are DONE! So good, so entertaining. I truly love your videos and you could talk about paint drying and I would watch. P.S. I have more anticipation for your "Wrong" series video than literally any movie or video that is coming out this year.
Didn't see it, then.Don't see it now
24:15 "Don't do this, Cas" gunshot "After doing this, Castiel—" made me laugh until my stomach hurt
i didnt watch teen wolf but i loved sterek and transmasc!stiles as i was becoming more comfortable as a bi trans guy person lol (im nonbinary now but still transmasc n stuff gender is weird). i DEFINITELY identified with stiles and was vicariously living through STerek both as imagining myself as stiles with derek and the ig voyeurish way that i was attracted to both.
anyway the "fujoshi"/cisgirl shipper to gay/bi+++ transmasc ppl pipeline is so real
BRUTHA. i think it’s insane that this is how i find out that derek canonically dies in the end.
32:06 😂
38:32 This photo😂😂
🤣🤣