It’s a silly question, but just roll with it
Support New Frame Plus on Patreon!
http://www.patreon.com/newframeplus
What makes a dodge animation good or bad? And which video game has the best-looking, best-feeling dodge? The only way to find out (apparently) is with a tier list. We’re going to look at the dodge animations in more than sixty games across a wide range of genres for this ranking exercise, so maybe bring a snack or something, this could take a minute.
——– ▼LINKS▼——–
PATREON ► http://www.patreon.com/newframeplus
BLUESKY ► https://bsky.app/profile/danfloydplus.bsky.social
LET’S PLAY CHANNEL ► http://bit.ly/2lmGte8
——– ▼CREDITS▼——–
Written and produced by Daniel Floyd
Special thanks to:
-Carrie Floyd
-Soraya Een Hajji
-Eric Luhta
-Andrew Butterfield
-Ryan Duffin
——– ▼MUSIC▼——–
♪ “Ice Cave Chant” by arthur x medic, Ben Briggs
https://tnywvs.bandcamp.com/track/ice-cave-chant
♪ “Incognito” by DjjD
https://ocremix.org/remix/OCR03370
♪ “Legend of Lorule” by Mikel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQbXQup3SSs
♪ “Smooth Criminals (Invasion)” by The Vagrance
https://ocremix.org/album/15/humans-plus-gears-xenogears-remixed
♪ “Critical Hit” by Michael ‘Skitch’ Schiciano
https://soundcloud.com/skitchstudio/mission-critical-hit-remix-of-the-spy-from-ffviii
♪ “Wisp Inc.” by GlacialSpoon
https://ocremix.org/remix/OCR03324
♪ “Therefore I [A]m (Ex[C]eption)” by liltommyj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMwyf0hhCaY
♪ …and selections from a LOT of official game soundtracks.
——– ▼CHAPTERS▼——–
0:00 – Introduction
0:14 – What makes a dodge animation good or bad?
1:56 – Criteria
3:24 – The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
7:01 – The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom
8:34 – Bayonetta
10:50 – Bayonetta 2
11:36 – Bayonetta 3
12:01 – Dark Souls
14:06 – Elden Ring
15:07 – Bloodborne
16:23 – Lords of the Fallen (2014)
17:57 – Lords of the Fallen (2023)
18:57 – Lies of P
20:13 – Black Myth: Wukong
21:23 – Remnant: From the Ashes
22:50 – Helldivers 2
23:51 – The challenges of First Person dodging
24:15 – Metroid Prime
25:09 – Breakdown
25:59 – Destiny 2
27:27 – Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
28:46 – Hollow Knight
29:31 – Have a Nice Death
30:10 – Enter the Gungeon
31:29 – Moonlighter
32:37 – Furi
34:00 – Hades
35:01 – Hyperlight Drifter
35:50 – Diablo III
37:11 – Diablo IV
38:44 – Tunic
39:39 – Sonic Frontiers
40:59 – Kingdom Hearts II
42:17- Kingdom Hearts III
43:19 – Kena: Bridge of Spirits
44:23 – Kirby and the Forgotten Land
44:59 – Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
45:36 – Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
46:36 – Fire Emblem: The Blazing Blade
47:34 – Fire Emblem Engage
48:41 – Star Fox 64
49:01 – Armored Core VI
50:14 – Absolver
51:24 – Sifu
52:47 – Punch-Out!!
53:27 – Punch-Out!! (2009)
54:26 – Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
55:53 – Gigantic
57:43 – Genshin Impact
59:04 – Wuthering Waves
1:00:08 – Zenless Zone Zero
1:01:32 – Returnal
1:02:29 – Warframe
1:03:39 – Max Payne 3
1:05:02 – Ghost of Tsushima
1:07:08 – Tomb Raider (2013)
1:09:07 – Horizon Zero Dawn
1:10:06 – Horizon Forbidden West
1:11:29 – The Callisto Protocol
1:12:48 – Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II
1:13:57 – God of War Ragnarök
1:14:38 – The Witcher 3
1:16:04 – Final Fantasy XVI
1:17:28 – Monster Hunter: World
1:19:55 – Marvel’s Spider-Man 2
1:21:44 – Nier Automata
1:24:09 – Closing Thoughts
#animation #gameanimation #NewFramePlus
source
Okay, halfway through, I gotta pause. I grew up on KH2. I even played through it on 1.5+2.5 on fight stick and beat it. I am SO happy you put the dodge animations in S tier!! The game plays so amazingly, the combos feel so satisfying to get, the finishers are flashy and impactful, and while cutscene animation and voice acting may not be entirely up to par, it is still ROCK solid gameplay and combat/movement animation.
I’m sorry, small rant from me, but KH2 holds a special place in my own kingdom of hearts, from PS2 all the way to PS4. I will never stop loving the game, and there’s also someone who’s making an overhaul mod where you play as Roxas, and he’s repurposing and modifying existing animations to create new moves that also feel amazing. Hope you’ll get to check it out someday, it’s called Nobody May Cry. lol I’m Brox, and this has been my KH2 fanboy TED Talk.
I love how Dan's interest in legacy and iteration shines through these videos.
Whether it's general animation across Sonic or Final Fantasy series, or dodges in Zelda/Bayonetta/Soulsborne/FPS/Metriodvanias/whatever the patrons suggest, It's always interesting to see how devs improve and iterate upon what came before.
Deducing the dev's thought processes and experimentation? That's my jam.
Alucards weird backwards forwards dash does makes sense the man is constantly forwards moonwalking after all
Yeah, I gotta admit those ZZZ ones are pretty darn good
should of have one for the mass effect franchise especially 3's multiplier with all the different characters and their dodges
Would love to see a comparison of different games' flying animations, including Thatgamecompany's Journey and Sky: Children of the Light. Plus games with sustainable flight for player characters are less common, so hopefully your list will be easier to curate 😂
Wondering about the dodge animations in Darkest Dungeon 1 and 2. Theyre like the fire emblem ones that are more contextual than manual input
@27:00 Destiny 2 also has a first person dodge with the arc titan. It’s very similar to Metroid Prime but with a bit more tilt
Id like to see victory posses compared.
28:04 This whole animation looks reversed. Having the stopping frames be the ”push off” animation and the starting frames be the front lean would probably fix the whole thing😅
Lord of the Fallen's screen wobbling literally made me dizzy, how was this approved?
I feel like at least one of the more traditional fighting game should have been somewhere on here.
i was really hoping for more a more technical look at how to make a good dodge roll. Games can have a great look, but nailing the feel is much more important to me as a consumer. How closely does a creator match the animation to the hitboxes during a dodge? Is there ever a time when conflicts can arise between what visually makes sense or looks good and what is mechanically happening? Why do Fromsoft dodge animations feel so much better than literally any of their contemporaries? How do you make a dodge roll animation in the first place? Do you add a lot in, then subtract until you nail the feel? Do you start with the animation and let the developer figure out how where to put the hitboxes and how to time the invulnerability window?
You seem really friendly and are probably a chill guy. But I don't know you, and I'd rather learn from your wealth of knowledge from experience rather than your takes and what vibe you get from a game's animation. It feels arbitrary and leaves me wishing I could learn more. I'm left wanting.
The list of games in this video is exhaustive, but I wanted to mention a game I've been enjoying very much lately. I'm not a video game animator, someone who is can probably point out a bunch of things I don't see, but I really like the dodge roll of the Deadeye from Exoprimal. He dodges in any direction, but the follow through has him twisting his waist towards where you're camera is facing, and I've always really liked that attention to detail, it makes his dodge roll feel excellent.
the quick-direction-change from killer7 can be a dodge in a pinch, and the amount of characterization they put on each character is great. The wrestler does a big flip with his cape, the small kid rolls on the ground and lands back on his feet to keep moving quickly, the knife wielder does a wild backflip… they're all pretty good and, timed well, can trigger an enemy attack while keeping the player safe. There's also coutner attacks but we're talking dodges so dodge it is
if someone read this and have the time to reply? what do you guys think about "Cuphead"?
because i pretty much love it, until i get the "smoke bomb"…
also would love to hear your thoughts on the dodges from hi fi rush!
Check these DMC 5 dodge animations especially:
-Dante's duck and side step like a boxer while using Balrog gauntlets.
-Nero's perfect dodge, having a moment of pause and change of animation with after images.
-V's creative usage of familiars for ground and air dodges. (Which also pulls them back if they are in danger)
-Vergil's elegant and efortless teleport.
DMC 5 has a lot of high quality animations that suit the gameplay. It is also interesting to see older animations from previous games updated and used in this game which has a more realistic look while still maintaining snappiness.
It’s obviously dodge souls
Edit: it’s crazy to talk about the Helldivers dodge…. Bring up the fact it’s similar to mgsv and then not talk about mgsv and ground zeroes dodges (which I believe are actually slightly different correct me if I’m wrong)
Also again it’s insane to talk about the Diablo 3 roll and not talk about its clear inspiration from the og god of war games.. also not having the og god of war on this list is also insane.
Still commiting many dodging crimes in this video… we aren’t gonna talk about older armored core games equip able (equippable isn’t a word according to my autocorrect.. I’ll take its word for it anyway..) and also the quick burst maneuver from ac4 and for answer which influences the dodge for ac6. Anyway if you want a higher skill ceiling and more heft on your mech then look at these games and how the dodges feel.. because to be fair it’s hard to tell when you aren’t the one playing.
Ori and the will of the wisp
no hi fi rush ouuugh…. (great video tho)
I think the only game missing for me was Dust Force
Babe wake up, Dan's uploaded another Movie on animation analysis
1:04:40 small error, but max payne 3 came out 12 years ago as of the release of this video, not 15
I thought I could just watch this in bed and fall asleep, but I ended up staying awake for the whole thing…
Vanquish had some great animations, definitely needs to go on a list somewhere.
Personally, if there is a follow-up, I think Thunder Lotus Games' Sundered and 33 Immortals might be worth looking at. The default player animations in Jotun were a bit rough imo, but every one of their games since has been a delight, and I highly recommend keeping an eye on 33 Immortals in the future, as the game is still in active development, and already looks gorgeous. The hand-drawn animations from TLG just keep getting better and better, and I definitely think they're worth mentioning. (as I'm sure you noticed back when you played through Spiritfarer)
1:10:56 I think that hair ”flop” works great. It’s like she flips her hair back out of her face after stumbling and recovering
Such a cool fucking video. Love the huge breadth of games you looked at, and following sequels to see improvements. Thanks for sharing!
For Honor has one of the most inb depth dodge systems, with each character sporting a variety of unique animations and gameplay elements, with counter attacks, dodge attacks, deflects, dodge parries and such
Genuinely reccomend checking it out !
Kinda sad that you didnt cover hilariously janky dodge animations from TES IV Oblivion
I’d love to see a similar analysis for hit-react animation, personally.
20:33 Hi fi rush is actually another great example of a dodge animation thats links together for a 3 chain action dodge. It being timed with the music too is a massive boost for gamefeel imo
Not having Order of Ecclesia is a crime…
B for Max Payne is crazy
Amazing video! I learned a lot from how clearly you deconstructed the animation and gameplay.
What do you think about the dodge/evasion mechanic in College Football/Madden? It’s a large part of the gameplay. Not everyone’s cup of tea, but still it could be interesting to analyze.
Well Parries are the obvious choice for another ranking, Sekiro is an obvious example. Though I would be interested in just a general breakdown of the parrying in that game and how it works out which version of the animation to play depending on the attack (i.e left vs right vs getting thrown back)
Fire emblem dodge animation mentioned, day made 💙❤
This type of video for parries would also be great.
Kind of said already in the video, but it's bugged me for a while that Genshin seems to take the wrong idea from Automata. It works well as the transition into a run, but it's muddy and unsatisfying as an actual dodge, because that animation was never meant to be the actual dodge, only the trigger for it. They're pulling from the best, but they're pulling the wrong half, and it just feels bad to me. I don't think every game needs a fancy perfect-timing dodge, it's fine to design around more of a standard all-purpose one, but I do think (in most cases) it should be snappier/more clearly defined, else it can feel weird to use repeatedly
I was hoping for there to be more fighting games, because surprisingly it's often kinda a mixed bag. The things that come to mind would be tekken's sidesteps or granblue fantasy versus's spot dodges and dodge rolls. While they work I think they can be kinda not that great sometimes in conveying they're invincibility. GBVS's spot dodges especially can seem kinda hard to read if you didn't know what most dodges look like in that game because their position doesn't really change they just kinda lean back. And almost every game has backdashes, usually with some evasive properties and while they usually are more appealing they don't usually make their evasive properties very clear with the exception of Street Fighter V's V shift which gives a big slowdown that would probably slow down the gameplay too much if it wasn't limited by using a special resource. When I started playing 2D fighting games I had no idea backdashes could have invincibility or that they counted as being airborne which is important for evading throws.
slamming fists on table Best jump! Best jump! BEST JUMP!!
The floatyness of Warframe's combat completely ruins it for me, I don't like how these dodges feel at all.