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Kimberly P. Stein, Esq.
Flangas Law Group
3275 S. JOnes Blvd.
Ste. 105
Las Vegas, NV 89146
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when a lawyer speaks you know you will hear fabricated and opinionated jurisprudence destined to siphon every last penny, all this from a sanctimonious and dead soul..
Keeping it real!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!!
@Kiki, Thanks for this very informative video of yours with a lawyer's input(Kim)., more power to you! As I said before if all these dramas of Journey would be written in 5 episodes on Netflix, it would be a big hit for sure and might get nominated for Emmy Award for Best Drama! Hopes for them being in the 50th Anniversary is now impossible in my opinion, but we never know. Hoping for the best turnout, these guys are now in their senior year, better to patch things up and enjoy life rather than have a bitter life for the rest of their life!
Steve IS Journey…Neal is just a lesser talent that wouldn't be half as famous without Steve…
Excellent show Kiki. She was not boring. She was extremely enlightening.
I'm trying to figure out why Steve Perry always gets a pass..
Want it Steve during that behind the band special on VH1 that Pretty said he never really felt like he was part of the band? You saw the rest of the guys reaction, right? Schon said WTF is he talking about ? I have him the twins and let him do whatever he wanted
What about when Perry abruptly quit! Did he give a second thought about the other guys?
I see Neal as the emotional brother trying to work things out with him unemotional sibling.. And the unemotional brother just keeps seeing the relationship back. I didn't know they were speaking over the summer, but why does it always sound like Perry tanks the relationship everytime? I remember Neal saying, I don't care if we do music… I just want my friend back! Perry has the upper hand and he knows it. Lead singer disease is real my friends. I love Perry like you guys, but, I also know what I see. Perry is holding a grudge because the guys moved on without him. What are they supposed to do? Quit? No one band member shoulda have that power… Period! Now is there is something that Neal did to Perry, I don't know about, possibly. Why these guys can't just get a long is ridiculous!
Don Barnes and Donnie Van Zant traded off lead vocals. They both founded .38 Special. Both are great, but I prefer Van Zant.
Neal and Jon R the Rip Off artists. Never enough money. The have ripped off Ross Valory and Steve Smithy too.
Neal needs to keep his wife in the manner she has become accustomed too. Greed is the impetus to this trademark issue and Steve wrote most of the 20 songs attached to the trademark issue.
My question is why aren’t all the members of the original band allowed to benefit from the merchandise sold with or without a trademark? Why only Neal and Jon would benefit monetarily ?
The Journey of today is now being called a “Cover Band”. Which I think is so sad, but because Neal has fired so many of the original members it really has become a cover band. Steve Perry will Never rejoin the band as long as Neal would be involved
Steve Perry doesn’t need Neal or Jon to make a come back with his songs
‘Steve camp’ here, for the voice AND the integrity. Steve is the reason that ‘Journey’ not only became what they did but is the reason they are even recognized by current generations. He is the one that loves and protects the work they did together. Neal would have, and even does still, use them till they’re just used up. I have no doubt Neal would put ‘I’ll Be Alright Without You’ on a bra if he thought he could make a dime for it and then that would run the memory of the original into the ground. If Neal wants to play games with ‘Journey’ stuff, use the stuff he’s made without Steve. But wait, what would that be?? Todays ‘Journey’ is only successful when being a Steve impersonator. I can respect the Bad English stuff, for the good music. THAT is ALL Steve asked Neal to do when he had to decide what to do with deciding how to handle his health problems. Neal chose not to go that way which speaks volumes about where his ‘loyalties’ are to anyone but himself. Neal has lost his soul to ‘Bad Medicine’ and Jonathan has forgotten that ‘bad company corrupts good character’. They have corrupted the name ‘Journey’ and turned on a friend. I went to an ‘80’s Bands’ concert years ago to see Def Leppard and had to leave when ‘Journey’ came on with Steve A. because it was just so …. WRONG. Thank God for iTunes where I can listen to Steve through the years and don’t have to rely on radio propaganda! When I hear any of those 20 songs in question play on the overhead at work, I literally ask people ‘who is that singing’ and when they say Journey I say ‘NO! That’s Steve Perry singing!’ If there’s a ‘Journey’ song that plays ANYWHERE without Steve Perry, I don’t know it, it’s not captured my attention. I do not believe this is about $$ for Steve. It’s about integrity. I want more than almost anything to see Steve live. I would LOVE to listen to him face to face and really get a chance to know if he’s the man of character I believe him to be, of course, who wouldn’t want that with Steve that has known anything about him? I can’t say that about Neal or Johnathan. I know there are many that say they would pay big to see Steve with Journey but after all that Neal and Johnathan have done to him, if he were to join them now, not only would I NOT go to it, I would have to say Steve isn’t the man I’ve come to believe him to be at all. So if this turns out to be a ‘publicity stunt’ it would backfire BIG and I’ve been with enough of other TEAM Steve members to say that I don’t think I would be the only one that sees it this way. I sincerely hope you’re wrong about that! Thank you for the interview and the lessons on legal contracts, it further convinces me that Steve did and does what he does to protect the music because he knew then what Neal was capable of. I suppose that only time will tell.
I guess because Neal Schon has put it out there on his social media accounts it's fair game for fans to post their opinions. Maybe he should not be trashing Steve and creating division. As mentioned, none of us know everything. Steve is intensely private and has always been, that's who he is. Schon on the other hand is pushing a false narrative and taking fans along for the ride. There's motive behind why he's ranting on social media, obviously. I've read his posts and the replies and it goes like this: if you agree with him and trash Steve you're good. If you ask questions or have an opinion that differs you're done… blocked. I'm blocked because I dared to ask questions, I dared to not just believe without really knowing or hearing both sides so I did my research. Schon is in a smear campaign against Steve. It's really gross. He actually posted that "Jealousy is a sickness." What in the world that Steve have to be jealous of? The bottom line is that Schon and Cain sold their rights to the music while Steve didn't. Any decisions, per their agreement, states that all 3 parties must be involved. They didn't include Steve. He wrote or co wrote the songs in question. He's not sold his rights. Steve also didn't ask for money in his petition yet Schon is trying to say he's greedy. Obviously Steve just wants to protect the music instead of seeing it used for stupid things like commercials etc. I'm with Steve on this. It's about making more money with Schon and Cain. Fans need to do their research before following along with a false narrative like the one Schon is putting out there. It's really about what's right and wrong. Through the years Schon has become more and more egotistical in my opinion and it's not a good look. They screwed Steve over or tried to in the past, why would he just blindly trust them, he'd be a fool to do so. Reading the things that Schon has said in his posts was really shocking to me. He's not a nice guy. Steve Perry's voice really catapulted Journey to stardom, he deserves to not be screwed over. Again, Cain and Schon sold their rights to the songs, Perry didn't do that so…Who cares about the music and who cares about the money? It's obvious to me.
Kim was awesome, thank you!!
I hope these guys can come to an agreement, but Mr.Schon should know by now that Mr. Perry is not going to roll over and play dead and nor should he.
Steve has a wife???
I think Neal comes out with these comments that "we're talking again, friends, blah, blah, blah" right before things go to hell because he knows they're going to hell and he wants to look like the good guy and make Perry look like the a-hole.
For the record, when Herbie Herbert was the manager of Journey, Steve Perry, Ross Valory, Steve Smith, Jon Cain, Neal Schon all got equal share. Then in 1980's, Perry fired Valory and Smith, and suddenly it was only Steve Perry, Jon Cain, and Neal Schon having equal share. Herbie was a good businessman and knew an equal share for all members kept harmony in the band.
I love raisin bread toast, Steve Perry and yard sales too. Let's hang out!
Kiki,
I just wanted to throw a few things in here to clarify…
First, the Elmo deal…there seems to be some confusion here. The Elmo Partners LLC was created during the recording of Raised on Radio, 1985 or so. If you recall, Steve Perry "fired" Steve Smith and Ross Valory back then. Therefore, the Elmo Partners LLC only included Perry/Schon/Cain. Even the ROR tour was advertised "Journey with Randy Jackson and Michael Baird".
The history of the current lawsuit is this:
Neal formed a band called "Journey through Time". This was a band with Neal, Gregg Rolie and others which performed an alternate selection of Journey songs beyond just the Greatest Hits. Neal got to a point where they were writing songs and had a desire to record an album. So, he filed trademarks for "Journey Through Time". This is the point where Nightmare held meetings to vote on leadership, and they expanded their board by two. Steve Smith and Ross Valory were then elected as CEO and Secretary, and Jonathan and Neal were voted off the board…but are still stockholders. This was the "coup" Neal talks about.
The board then filed a trademark complaint against "Journey Through Time", or Neal's LLC, because Nightmare felt it was too similar to "Journey" and could cause confusion. Neal then sued Nightmare Productions and fired Smith and Valory. Ross Valory then counter sued. This always seemed a bit vengeful to me.
If you read all of the legal papers from this you will find out a few interesting things:
1. The MEDIA Trademark has historically been claimed by Nightmare Productions. They then licensed it to Elmo Partners so Journey could "be" Journey, and record and tour.
2. In the early 90's Herbie sent letters to Steve Perry, Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain saying the license agreement was void because they had not been an actively using the mark…and he quoted the Elmo Partners license agreement. IMO, this was also related to Herbie wanting to form Journey with Kevin Chalfant, Neal Schon, Ross Valory, Steve Smith Jonathan Cain, AND Gregg Rolie. During one of Steve Perry's canceled "For the Love of Strange Medicine" tour dates, there was a meeting held to decide the lineup…John Kalodner pushed for the Escape lineup in order to be signed to Sony. Steve Perry said he would not join unless they signed with new management (firing Herbie). Of course they went for the Escape lineup and signed with Sony ($'s). and managed by Irving Azzof This led to the reunion and "Trial By Fire" album.
3. The very lines the Perry lawsuit uses and quotes to show he still had an interest in the Journey MERCHANDISE trademark were used by Neal when he filed his lawsuit against Nightmare. So, Neal should have known this is an issue.
4. When Perry talks about the 1998 deal, he is talking about the agreements that were made for him to exit Journey…that the agreement he signed when he left Journey did not change the Elmo Partners deal. Ironically, this is what Neal was arguing in HIS lawsuit…Elmo Partners owned the media trademark…not Nightmare, which IMO is wrong.
5. During the Perry exit, Neal and Jonathan were required to form a new LLC …This became NoMoTa LLC (meaning NO MOre TAils…a reference to Perry). I do not know why they formed Freedom JN LLC…maybe it had something to do with the Nightmare lawsuit, or being on a new label, or something else. But, obviously, Neal is not as "free" as he thinks 🙂
6. If you look at the merch trademark filings, they were filed in late 2020 and were then registered in early 2022. Not sure of this process, or if it normally takes that long? Then it looks like they were made "public" in September….then Perry sued. My question is: Would Perry's attorney's be looking for things like this and then automatically file a lawsuit without Perry's permission, or would they review it with Perry and get his OK first? It seems to me that Perry himself did not drive this…because it was so quick…but maybe his attorneys did and he followed their advice.
7. I think it is important to note that Nightmare/Smith/Valory did not LOSE to Neal. It was a settlement. If you look up the corporate filing, Smith and Valory are sill listed as CEO and Secretary as of the filing in late 2020 (a few months before the settlement was announced..and around the same time Neal filed for the merch trademarks, coincidence? I doubt it). It seems like Nightmare did not lose control of the MEDIA trademark, but I am not certain. IMO, Neal settled with Nightmare which kept control of the media trademark but promised to license it to Freedom JN and kept Smith/Valory in Nightmare's board leadership positions…and Neal and Ross would both drop their lawsuits. Neal was allowed to pursue merch Trademarks..and who knows if Smith/Valory got any payment for settling and agreeing to leave the "band" maybe with NDA's. In that scenario, nobody "lost" and it seems everybody got something they wanted.
A couple things I would like to note.
I don't think Neal was saying Herbie was corrupt…I'm thinking more Irving Azoff, which had been with Journey since Herbie left during the "Trial By Fire" reunion…just guessing, but Neal has not been specific.
I also think Neal is being a bit misled by how how much money they lost…if they take on everybody printing t-shirts, that is costing Journey $'s in legal fees, and how much $'s are they going to get back by their ex-customers buying official shirts? I just do not see it making much difference.
Finally, Herbie had an incredible mind for the business. I'm sure he had his reasons for not pursuing merchandise trademarks. Nightmare Productions is a MEDIA company so it makes sense that they would want the MEDIA trademarks. I did not know sometimes trademarks could be implied…maybe that is what he was thinking, or maybe he was so focused on media via Nightmare that he didn't care about merchandise so much.
And, I'm not a lawyer…but this entire story has really fascinated me 🙂
Neal Schon is an awesome guitarist and songwriter, but very rude personality and not humble at all, maybe Bishop Paula White can do a miracle on his attitude so he could have the fruits of the spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) I hope Steve Perry has a great victory in court!!!
I think that Neal had issues with Azoff, not so much with Herbert.