For my Presets visit: https://johnnathancordy.gumroad.com/
For ArtistWorks courses: https://artistwork.prf.hn/click/camref:1011lwi3R
For TrueFire courses and All Access Memberships: https://prf.hn/click/camref:1100lqzr3
Use the code JNC40 for a 40% discount off all courses, or JNC100 for $100 off all access membership!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXKZqJtjLkg check out this video from Ed S!
https://www.patreon.com/johnnathancordy get my lesson tabs and backing tracks here
https://www.buymeacoffee.com/johnnathancordy – if you like what I do and
only if you wanted, you could buy me a coffee!
Get my PADs bundle here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=TVZN39QQAAKTG (this folder will grow, and I’d encourage you to ask for different keys/songs and stuff that might suit this type of preset?)
I’ve decided to make it possible to grab both my Helix/HX Stomp bundles (the expression bundle with freeze presets has always been separate) together – https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=CCTNL7P2XSQDC – I will then email you a link to both bundles!
Try my general patches for Helix or HX Stomp in this bundle using this link – I will then send out the patches! https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=45L8AZ4RYL3HW
You can get my EXPRESSION patches in this bundle using this link – I will then send out the patches! https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=3PUJ7M8YPS4WU
Try my patches for Pod GO using this link – I will then send out the patches! https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=2E7DSCRZW45JN
https://www.patreon.com/johnnathancordy get my backing tracks here
https://www.buymeacoffee.com/johnnathancordy – if you like what I do and
only if you wanted, you could buy me a coffee!
source
It's been a huge pain in the ears. I hear people doing input stage gain wrong (big channels) so often. I even commented on a channel about it because it was a review of a plugin and it was obviously clipping the input gain. But really, it's so variable, just set it so it sounds right to you.
For me, when I start hearing that high-end, frying ozone sound, that's too much. Most of the plugins need a bit more headroom though.
Very interesting. I wonder if that's why I have been getting a bad feedback issue with the plugins.
Thanks to Ed S for point all this out. It's an interesting discussion and one that will hopefully push plugin makers to have either a standard or some sort of guide to setting their expensive (sometimes) plugins setup properly.
I have a couple questions that are probably a little more for my setup, but maybe others have some ideas on what I can do….
1) I have a Victory Duchess V4 hybrid amp that uses the Two Notes Cab sims. I was told by Sweetwater rep to plug the Victory into the Line In (channel 3 for me) — Now, the Duchess is not an amp sim per se… but I am connecting it to the two notes software for cab sim… do I still need to set my gain on Channel 3 on the ID44 to zero… and adjust in Torpedo Remote software the Input levels…. or should this be set to the "just-a-bit- below-clipping" setting that the plugin companies recommend? Is this just for amp sims in particular or do the hybrid amps like The Duchess have different rules?
2) Is there any info on S-Gear settings yet? I can reach out to them to see if they offer any advice on their specific settings.
This is also why a lot of guitar players like to have a "clean boost" on the front end of their amp!, actually most guitar amps have way more headroom on their inputs than what the pickup will deliver and that's why some magically transform their sound for better once a booster is put on the front end, like Klon Centaur and such, so after all is not that bad to have a little gain on your interface as that will act like a "clean boost", it won't be accurate to what the manufacturer intended but neither they did care to inform their users how to properly calibrate their input levels, I tried adjusting the levels to those 12.5 dB of headroom and some plugins like Overloud THU or Neural DSP indicate on their "calibration" that the input is "too low", I whish however be able to match my input levels on my HX Stomp and Helix Native because with the suggested method here is now lower and weaker on Helix Native, presets don't sound the same, so I went back to the sweet spot I found by trial and error which is around 6dB of headroom on my interface
Ola has been preaching this for years !
Setting your interface as close to clipping as possible is about getting full dynamic range out of your digital recording. If I understand the issue properly, the best solution would be to set your interface as close to clipping as possible and then use a volume device in the DAW plugin chain before the amp model to reduce the level to -13db or whatever is appropriate for the sim.
This is all news to me. I’ve struggled with plugins for years. I mostly just don’t use them unless I have to, but this is making me think I need to give them another chance.
I think what you've run into here is what we on the "engineer" side of audio call "Gain Staging". It's an issue with all kinds of analog modelled plugins, not just amp modellers. DAWs allow you to run your recording session hot because digital clipping doesn't happen in the same way as clipping in the analog world. Once analog modelling got accurate enough to behave like analog equipment, gain levels became an issue. But the solution isn't difficult. Most DAWs let you set where your "0" point is on your fader, so most of us work with our faders set to -12dBu or even -14dBu. That way when we're tracking, we can tickle the yellow just like we would on an analog mixing board and we won't be hitting much above -10.
It would be interesting to see if neural address this properly. I wonder if the artists making presets for the plugins all set their interface like this?
This got me thinking about my input gains on modellers after your last video. Spent a few days trying TMP with -6dB pad turned on it will be staying on models sound clear and natural and less forced both edge of breakup and gain tones. Really like it … live and learn
I’m totally confused about the companies perspective on this. If it’s true that we should set input gain to 0 on the interface why have companies been telling us incorrect information? Surely they want the consumer to get an accurate representation of their work
Great advice, although I feel it necessary to add that your advice is great for people seeking nice clean tones, but when it comes to metal and distorted tones, I've found that the closer you are to clipping, the tighter, brighter and all-round HEAVIER the distorted tone.
In the case that you're seeking that crushing metal tone, I would actually be in favour of the "as high as you can without clipping" approach. Certainly improved my experience of using both Helix Native and various NDSP plugins. This is the problem with not having a universal standard for connecting your guitar to your interface. You can gain a lot more control by bringing a DI box into the equation and balancing that way, but at that point it's probably all down to personal taste.
It's really not as complicated as everyone is making it out to be. Start with the input gain on your interface at zero and gradually increase it to hear how the sound changes with your modeler plugin (feeding a signal from a looper pedal can help with such experimentation since you don't have to focus on playing and tweaking at the same time!). The level you need to set your input gain to is going to differ depending on how you are playing day to day, from pickup to pickup, and from plugin to plugin. There's no magical set it and forget approach, just use your ears and go with whatever sounds best to you.
Alternatively, just record your guitar at any level you want (as long as it's not clipping), stick an EQ or compressor plugin on it that has an output level control, then feed that into your modeler plugin. You can then turn the output level control of the EQ or compressor plugin up or down to alter the strength of the signal feeding into your modeler, which essentially has the same effect as changing the gain on your interface.
If it sounds good, it is good.
Sorry, what's this got to do with a bass line?
Thanks for bringing attention to a larger audience about this very important topic. Ed (aka MirrorProfiles, an awesome dude) and another awesome dude, James Freeman, have been driving the awareness of why this matters, and trying to get manufacturers to publish their reference levels for their plugins.
Ed has managed to get that info for many of them, but one big holdout is IK Multimedia (Amplitube and Tonex), who have basically refused to give any info and have even deleted posts on their own user forum about it. They’re definitely aware of the question but just refuse to address it. If this continues to get more visibility and other vendors fall in line, maybe IK will finally cave in too.
The Tonex Plugin still kind of complicated to me when it comes to gain setting, maybe due to different amps are modelled in a different way? But even on the stock amps that tonex offers seems difficult to set the gain right. How would you set your gain with that? for example Joe's Dumble.
With any of my Apollo interfaces, I've always set things at 0 (but not necessarily with Mics.)
What would be a good way to capture the signal level of each "device/block" on your plugin. Make an external port to a VU Meter plugin then back?
Any Audient Evo users can tell me what to do on my interface to "get it right" when using NDSP plugins?? Sorry, total noob here. Cheers
Why are pickups not being taken into the equation?
I had never had any problems. Mostly since I have never cared much about their guidelines. I use plugins the way I would record my guitar. I try to keep the level at about -10dB. In the modern digital era, there really is no need to get your input levels close to zero. With analog gear, the noise floor is much higher and clipping isn't usually as disastrous. With digital gear you are just making your life difficult by chasing 0dB.
Here is a somewhat confusing answer from mixwave for those that use the benson or milkman plugin:
‘As a general rule, play Your guitar at the loudest volume you will record, then turn up the gain on your audio interface.
Slowly increasing the gain in small increments, until it starts to clip. Once the clipping point has been reached, turn down the gain knob of The Audio Interface to the point where clipping is no longer occurring.
Check the audio track meter and aim for the meter to peak around -12dB and -18dB. Above -10dB it's probably too loud for the entire Tracks/song’
I dont get the Problem. I use a NDSP Plugin and a Focusrite Scarlet 2. i think the Tone i get is pretty good. What should i try according to this vid to make it Even better?
Thank you.
Cranking your interface gain is just free fuzz.
just set my gain at zero on my scarlett and all my plug ins now sound much better ML sound lab and neural dsp and stl amp hub
One thing that guys who make presets can do is to indicate what input boost you used for your preset (i.e., I used a Focusright with zero boost for this preset, which equals Xdb, so set your interface accordingly) so that we will be recreating the same thing you are selling.
So I followed this advice and agree my plugins (Neural) sound much better. Problem is, all of my user presets are fu*ked up, and need recalibrating.
Each day brings yet another apocalyptic revelation from the frontlines of the guitar gear battlefield! (still coming for the playing. Not that I don't enjoy the talking. I do, even though it's almost entirely irrelevant to me)
I noticed that, when recording Helix dry signal (usb 7/8) , reamping by Helix works very well, BUT, if I try to reamp by Helix Native, the input signal is very poor and weak. I have to boost it up 6dB to have the same tone I have on the Helix 😮
I wonder why they don't make an input level plugin that helps you to reach the correct settings.
Once again you recommend to set interface input gain to 0, but my Volt 1 gain at zero (inst) gives me not even close to 12.2. (just es-335 with cable). I have to crank gain plugin in logic up to +24 to get 12db on meter before plugin… But I do the same with input gain on interface set to 10 o'clock just like every plugin creators told me to do… Could you please make a video and show input level in your DAW from your guitar when your interface gain in set to zero ? May be some interfaces attenuate input signal at zero and boost it over noon, so your "zero" is somewhere around 10 o'clock ? Because I have the same on both : volt 1 and scarlet solo (inst button on !)
You can warm your baby's bottle on a tube amp; Tube Amps 1, Modelers 0.