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Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones and Tyrion Lannister from A Song of Ice and Fire are two different characters. The HBO adaptation started off fairly well with his character…then went off a cliff after season 4, and not just because of Tysha. This analysis breaksdown how they failed adaptating Tyrion, despite the brilliance of Peter Dinklage, and why bad writing can be a big problem.
My Little Thought Tree is my channel for drawing out the deeper meaning and emotion in film, TV, and the world at large through relaxed, analytical video essays. I am a professional counsellor and often draw on my psychology and therapy background to better understand characters, themes, and emotion in fiction. I upload every Saturday and occasionally on Tuesdays, if I’m feeling productive.
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
01:06 Tysha
08:39 WorldAnvil
10:17 Penny & Suffering
14:34 Quick Faults
20:08 Corruption
MUSIC (in order, though some repeat later on)
Chill Astronaut – Game of Thrones Theme but it’s lofi hiphop
Calme – Ever So Blue
Merlyn – Jenny of Oldstone
Merlyn – Rains of Castamere
Merlyn – A Lannister Always Pays His Debts
Chill Astronaut – Goodbye Brother
Kevin MacLeod – Zig Zag
Alan Ellis – Sea Terms
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#gameofthrones #tyrion #asoiaf
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EXTRA POINTS TO CLARIFY
1) Use the code TREE for 40% off World Anvil with the link https://worldanvil.com/?c=mltt
Or else try it out for free!!
2) When I talk about Tysha actually loving Tyrion, I'm talking more about what Tyrion comes to think, rarher than what may be objectively true. Just because Tywin was lying doesn't necessarily mean Tyrion's idealistic view of their romance is 100% correct, but the objective truth wasn't really the focus of what I was saying.
3) The whole change in his relationship with Sansa did slightly damage his character, I don't know why I said it didn't. I suppose it didn't damage it overall, so much as just an isolated section of the story, though that just lost depth in place of Shae being a bit jealous of Sansa.
4) I know Jorah also captures Tyrion in the books, my wording makes it sound like he doesn't. That happens in the books too but if comes off the back of Tyrion having already been challenged/having things taken from him, and their fall into slavery is a lot less…pointless.
5) Hello there!
I really loved your Sansa video (I love Sansa in general) and I also really loved this one as well! I also decided to get a world anvil subscription which was the best idea EVER. Thanks for everything!
Tywin: what do you want?
Tyrion: I want a title. Did you know that for a small fee you can adopt a parcel of land somewhere called "Scotland" and they give you a title?
Tywin: The first time I laid eyes on you I knew you couldn't be mine. ESTABLISHED TITLES is a scam!
Tyrion: By the Seven, I wish I had asked through the safety and anonymity granted by NORDVPN
I've never been more hype to see a train move across some water than hearing you say "but first let's watch a train move across some water"
Wasn't Tyrion partially responsible for Jaime's daughter's death? Or was that Cersei?
In the books, Tyrion is driven be the betrayal of his first love and keeps thinking back on her with melancholy all the time. When the big blow comes that she was loyal and true and he in fact violated her in a way that is against his character, all from being tricked by his brother and cruel father, the rage Tyrion feels is absolutely justified. You keep thinking “this is not smart, Tyrion, but I get it”. And then afterwards he still keeps thinking about his first love, the only one who actually was true to him, who loved him, it is even more melancholy and self hating than before. He even has a mantra for it. “Where do whores go?”
Removing her makes Tyrion so much smaller and watered down. She was one of his main driving forces.
I wouldn't say having shae genuinely care about tyrion downplays the idea that his own scheming againts others came to back fire on him during his trial. Mainly because that is what happened when she came to testify against him.
"You poor stupid blind crippled fool. Must I spell out every little thing for you? Very well. Cersei is a lying whore, she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know. And I am the monster they all say I am. Yes, I killed your viel son."
My favorite line from the books ❤ Tyrion going off on Jamie was very satisfying 😌
The death of Tywin made no sense on the show. Tyrion shoots him for calling Shae a whore, and that was her chosen occupation. That's how Tyrion met her, when he was hiring her as his personal whore. Why would he be willing to kill someone for calling her what she was?
Dani's villain storyline was not a sudden change. She was always blood thirsty and vengeful. She was always challenged by characters the audiences didn't like to being repugnant or worse than her. She was never benevolent or compassionate.
Imagine season 1 one if everyone Cersei killed was a worse person than her.
The show ruins lots of things. Just today I was continuing my re-watch of the series, season 3 E4, where Joffrey is showing Margaery the spot where Rhaenyra Targaryen is buried and goes on to describe her death. I have Fire and Blood, I was purposely avoiding reading it with HOTD coming to HBO to avoid spoilers and some how GOT has ruined it for me.
To sum it up: season 5. Season 5 ruined Tyrion. All of what built up in season 4 in terms of his Joffrey murder trial really took a toll on his relationships with everyone in Kings Landing and his immediately family. All D&D did with it was make him drink it all away in depression when he got to Pentos. That wasn't development: it was a reset button on his character so the plot could have him captured and brought to Daenyrs without anything of his past mattering other than his supposed intelligence. The only thing he accomplished with that was a temporary peace in Mereen while Daenyrs was gone?
Was shocked to see this pop up in my recommended. I am sick of the finger pointing cry baby's still going on about a show that has been over for a long time. Listen plant your little tree in a place were it can grow….. please think of something that is more important than a TV show.
Oh man, watching these videos make me hate the video editors even more than in the final season. "Let's make a show where you can't see ANYTHING." Such a complete mess the last two seasons
Dude….that simple twist would have made episodes seven and eight of that last season ridiculously diabolical.
Having Tyrion manipulate Dany into using Drogon to destroy King's Landing as his revenge against not only Cersei, but all of King's Landing because of how they treated him during his time as Hand and then during his trial when they laughed at him when Shay called him "my Giant of Lannister." A Tyrion who never actually cared about the common folk using Dany and Drogon as his scourge against his family who betrayed him and anyone who mocked and ridiculed him makes a hell of a lot more sense than the blubbering "Tyrion" we got in the show who got big sad because the sister who did nothing but torment him was dead.
Tyrion's character died along with Tywin in that privy
Every tyrion chapter after he killed his father, he asks "where do whores go?"
Every chapter. It's a big deal.
The show could have ended at s5. We should be grateful for the great book adaptation we got,
And appreciate they closed loops and gave us a general ending that wont spoil the books. We got great. Moments the book wont give us.
The most important factor in the ruination of Tyrion is the same as with the rest of the characters: The utter inability of Benioff and Weiss to write dialogue. Shallow people cannot write dialogue for deep characters.
The show and book kind of blended in my head. I can see in my memory show Jamie confessing even though it was in the book only.
The moment that he met Daenerys. The same with Jon Snow.
"where do whores go"?
I think they made him less dark because he such a popular character they were maybe afraid to upset fans
I would pinpoint "the moment" differently, though close. In the books it's pretty heavily implied that Tyrion has the ROSIEST of tinted lenses for his time with Tysha (made a bit difficult, or easier, by Tyrion being one of the most unreliable narrators), but the real moment is when in the show, Shae picks up a knife to attack Tyrion. It turns this first act of darkness into one of self-defense, poor blameless Tyrion, and so on. That's ultimately the end of his forward momentum, because the story is trying to teach us "Oh, look how cruel Westeros is that it did this to one of its more pure characters" but….Tyrion already KNOWS all that. And Sansa is a far better vehicle for that message.
Wow a lot of this seems to stem from the fact D+D can't understand women. Weird.
So sad to see such a smart, capable character take such a hard L. I’ll never forgive them for Tyrion being the one to say “Who has a greater story than BrAn tHe bROkeN” ugh nooooooo it was a final nail in the coffin for such a once clever character.
Great analysis as always!
I love your analysis of Tyrion, frankly the book version of him is hard to stand behind sometimes. Although you see glimpses of goodness in him, he is still a emotionally stunted mess, egotistical, pitiful, and immature. Downright unlikable at times, but he is interesting. The show is very restrained in comparison yet it loves to shock people with cruelty not even seen the books, it’s strange. They are afraid that people lacking media literacy will not enjoy the morally complicated characters and instead makes characters like Tyrion, Jorah, Jon, and Dany good with some minor flaws that can be overlooked. This makes me want a Jon video because I believe he and Dany are the 2 characters that were hit the worst in the show. ADWD is my favorite book because Jon and Dany are grappling with their newfound power, Jon’s chapters has always been my favorite.
The thumbnail picture makes Tyrion Lannistar look like a Chaos Space Marine.
Also Walder Frey did nothing wrong because he actually said, "mayhaps".
Tyrion is the character I genuinely hate the most in both the show and books. Even early in the show, I absolutely hated him. He made watching the show extremely difficult. Nothing bad happens to him, he always escapes by some miracle. But the community gladly ignores the terrible the terrible things he does because they like him. I wish I was born in an universe where Tyrion was hated.
Tyrion is a character that I hated from early in the show and I am so sad that he didn’t die an excruciating death like he deserved. People see him as some angelic princess who can’t do anything wrong.
The problem with Tyrion in the later seasons is the same as the problem with Dany, Cersei, Jon, Sanza, Arya, Varys, or any other major character arc. All of these characters were created by GRRM. They were all products of his imagination, not D&D, and when they ran out of book material, they were lost. D&D could not hold a candle to GRRM in imagination or character development. They started out adapting the existing books to the screen and were very good at doing that. When they ran out of books, thery had to become creators rather than adapters and were not up to the task.
Before even watching this video, I think the thing that went wrong with tyrion on the show is that at the end of season 4, there was no Tysha reveal from Jaime.
There are plenty of examples of this kind of hack writing from D&D long before Season 8.
If there has ever been a more insanely overrated writing duo, I have no idea who they would be.