It’s the season finale! Joel and Ellie reach the end of their journey, and Joel makes a tough decision. Thank you for watching through this season of The Last of Us with us! This show has been incredible so far.
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This channel should be way bigger than it is. Out of all the responses to The Last of Us, yours has had some of the most interesting and perceptive comments and reflection. Long may it continue.
It makes sense to give medicine to Ellie for the “crazy man” if they planned to eventually eat him. =
Anna cut to umbilical cord with the same knife she killed the ZOMBIE with too. Also, are you guys from Michigan? Midwest? I'm trying to place to the accent 🤔
fantastic discussion!
I definitely agree that the fireflies should have gotten her side before the surgery and it might have changed a lot if they had that consent beforehand, but I also agree that it probably wouldn't change much for Joel and his opinion on what he did if he knew. I think that Joel had an opportunity to hear her side if he really wanted her to have her choice in the garage, when Marlene tells him "What would she have wanted? It's not too late, we can still find a way." If he takes her up on that, finding another way would be challenging considering the doctor is gone, but Ellie would definitely be awake soon and he would be able to ensure that she gets to make her choice. I think that he knows what her choice would be and can't accept that, so that's why he kills Marlene instead and then lies to Ellie afterwards.
adults lie to kids all the time – father christmass – easter bunny – its not going to hurt – daddy dosen't loves you
Good comprehensive discussion.
This is super complicated ethically.
A few points. Neill Druckmann (the video game author) asked the game play testers if Joel made the right choice – those without children answered 50-50 parents with children 100% pro Joel.
Pedro Pascal was selected for the role because he doesn't (with the exception of the Mandalorian) ordinarily play good guy heroes.
Javier Pena in the series Narcos used very questionable methods and Pedro has played some flat out charming deceitful villains as well.
Each actor has added to their character – for example Troy Baker the original Joel voice actor plays guitar. Ashley Johnson (the original game Ellie who played her mother in this episode) loves space exploration.
Pedro Pascal has had his contribution here. Joel tells Ellie about his own suicide attempt after Sarah died and stresses why you keep going on. Pedro's mother committed suicide which is when he switched his stage name to hers of Pascal from his father's name of Balmaceda. Also Ellie tells the fireflies in her first scene that her name is Veronica which was Pedro's mother's name.
Joel and Ellie have different and complementary abilities. One of Joel's is the ability to completely dissociate in a combat situation. There are threats and risks all of which are eliminated.
Marlene took Tommy, Joel's brother, away from him and now Maureen is going to take Ellie away from him. Not happening. AND Ellie saved his life when he was stabbed.
Finally why Joel doesn't let Ellie make her own decision. He's béen there himself with survivor's guilt after Sarah died. She's in the middle of that reaction now after David and the cannibals. He's not going to let her make the same mistake he did with his suicide attempt. He may not even be able to express the reason but he knows.
It's funny how perspective change everything, they're literally siding with the hospital shooter a hospital in an apocalypse 😮and the only ones working for a cure. I hated the first game because I saw it as the villain wining but this show gave me more understand of how mentally unstable Joel is which make me see him as grey.
Certainty: Ellie Dies
Uncertainty: A vaccine can be made from her
Joel's choice is really not difficult to side with in the end.
I read something that pointed out that the doctor would have been a resident when the outbreak happened so how the hell would he be able to do that surgery? Were medical schools still in operation during the past 20 years?
A 14 year old child let alone a person with survivors guilt/mental health issues wouldn't even be allowed to consent to assisted suicide (what this in practice would have been). Especially if they told her: You giving up your life will save the entire world". Imagine saying that to a teenager that feel responsible for several people's death. So yeah your arguments on organ donors make sense here. Them killing Ellie would have been morally wrong even if she consented, that's how I view it. And I'm even a supporter of consenting assisted suicide.
Joel's actions at the hospital are completely sound. His daughter was about to be murdered without her consent. I struggle to find much to debate about this. And that includes finishing off Marlene – she had already proved she was willing to murder his daughter and would rally the troops to hunt him & Ellie down had she lived (and force her again into an end-of-life procedure with a different surgeon whether she agreed to it or not). It's a no-brainer.
Where it does get complex is Joel's later decision to lie to her about it all.There's a list of pros & cons to this, which have already been discussed ad infinitum. I wouldn't go as far to say he was right to shield Ellie from the truth, but I would say it's understandable at least.
While I've enjoyed the pacing and the show overall, my biggest issue isn't necessarily with the ethical dilemma but with the threat that the infected currently pose. With so few infected being seen on screen, it feels that humanity is standing in their own way when it comes to rebuilding. Almost like getting a vaccine wouldn't do much for humanity. Fedra honestly hasn't seemed that "evil" throughout the series. If Ellie being immune was due strictly to the circumstances of birth then there must be atleast a few other over the last 20 years. Can she pass it on to her kids? I'd like to see a truly evil organization force breeding kids in that way to make an immune army. I liked the flip with Joel thinking about AFTER and Ellie focusing on her MISSION. Joel's assualt on the Fireflys is so well shot, it perfectly focuses on the mindset and the intent vs. the violence.
Regarding whether or not they'd be able to get the cure from Ellie without killing her, Marlene says that it's the Cordyceps growth, not her brain, that they need to make the cure. So they can't just take a tiny piece of her brain, or a spinal tap, etc. They need the growth, which as Joel says, grows throughout the brain. They literally have to cut up her brain to remove the growth.
It's like if you had a bunch of loose string and then packed a bunch of snow around it to make a snowball, then had to remove the string. You'd have to rip the snowball apart to get at the string.
The Moral of this Story Is. Don't have a Mouth Full of Lies
Such a great set of reactions and discussions guys. Really enjoyed it. I see you’re making your way through Andor, so off to catch up on those!
I had full body chills during Joel's rampage in the hospital. It was like the "I am that guy"-moment, but stretched out over several minutes. Just glorious.
Damn, what a great show, HBO is the GOAT. You guys are great wish you'd post more often you'd be huge in no time. Whose idea was the name Catch-up packets? it's gold..