This is an epic soteriology showdown on the topic of Free Grace Theology versus Lordship Salvation. More specifically, this debate will answer the question “Can Christians Fall Away (or turn) from the Faith Completely in this Earthly Life?” Charles Jennings says Yes. Kelly Powers says no.
Debate question – Can Christians Fall Away (or turn) from the Faith Completely in this Earthly Life?
Affirmative – Charles Jennings (The Layman’s Seminary)
Negative – Kelly Powers (Berean Perspective Apologetics)
Moderator – Donny Budinsky
Hosted by – Standing For Truth Ministries
Free Grace Theology – Charles Jennings
Lordship Salvation – Kelly Powers
Charles Jennings – https://www.youtube.com/@TheLaymansSeminary
Kelly Powers – https://www.youtube.com/@BereanPerspectiveApologetics
Charles Jennings Debates – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeROpayG6Sh3GSv2DWako1tpDlX711N4e
Kelly Powers Debates – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeROpayG6Sh3u5iuVN-Jsck4GIcLp9EP2
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Great debate from kelly. Charles, you really take away from your arguments when you visibly get irritated, pander on about your views and opinions without bringing them back into context of scripturally supported views. You mocked kelly repeatedly and behaved as an annoyed child when pressed.
Charles last response to kellys statement of Christs atonement. He died for all the world, and yes you place your faith in him to recieve the grace/atonement…it is a free gift through faith by belief and trust in him. For charles to then ask why the atonement does not apply to those who dont believe in antithetical and nonsensical. This was obvious when kelly said "we're done"
This is a key example again of charles talking through his emotions and not stopping to settle and really think on what he is asking/implying.
Why does the nature of salvation, how ones is saved, which the word Soteriology means, (big word to make people confused so they feel they need to learn from other men, rather than the Lord God by His Word!) need to be debated, with the Word of God is simple to read and understand, WITHOUT the false doctrines of men, the leaven, raising the whole lump!
(Ephesians 2:8-10) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: {9} Not of works, lest any man should boast. {10} For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
(John 15:4-6) "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. {5} I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. {6} If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
(Hebrews 3:11-13) "So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) {12} Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. {13} But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
(Titus 3:5-7) "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; {6} Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; {7} That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."
(Romans 10:9) "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
(Hebrews 6:4-6) "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, {5} And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, {6} If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
(John 6:44) "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
If we are drawn by God the Father in Heaven unto Christ Jesus and believe in the gospel in our hearts, we receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth, who testified of Son of God, Jesus Christ the Lord. By read the Word, faith grows in our life and it is the Word of God, which produces fruit, that we are to bare. If we continue in the faith, until the end, believing in our hearts and confessing that God raised Christ from the dead, we shall be saved, by if we turn from the truth, deny what we once believed, we will have our reward with the wicked. End of debate. Anything else is fantasy. Oh, by the way, FAITH, believing what the Word of God says, is NOT a work, it is the actual faith by which we are saved. Without faith, ALL is dead, the flesh, the soul, the spirit and not just the works. There is NO once saved always save, or eternal security, since if we believe, then fall away, to being out of the way, until death, we have sacrifice for sins again, since Christ died ONCE for sin. You are lost, then you believe, then, if you reject the truth, after you have tasted of the earnest of the Spirit and of Heaven, then reject the Truth, going back to your vomit, you CANNOT come back and say you believe again, since you rejected the gift of salvation!
Was a great debate, and no chairs flying, so better than last weeks number of casualties, 😜. Good stuff, Kelly! Looking forward to more debates!
You keep saying this was a good debate. This was horrible, listening to Charles whine the entire time and throw jabs. Kelly did well there was a few things he could of reframed from saying but Kelly by far expounded on scripture the best. According to what I see from this other guy. There is no hell for anyone. All you have to say is i believe and that’s it. It’s a done deal. Jesus taught so much about hell but i guess nobody ends up going there. So majority Christians in America are saved. Yet they can believe in multiple ways to be saved. Believe in abortion and I guess be transgender and a pastor at the same time but they are also saved. Kenneth Copeland saved ! Todd Bentley saved! Td Jake’s saved! Joel oldsteen saved! Just go through the word of faith heretics out there but no they are all saved because they say they believed. Prime definition of self deceived and deceiving others. But I guess there only losing out on rewards so they will still be good. Don’t forget Benny hinn.
So Charles wife believes in Free Grace she is your number one fan Charles and she believes what you teach. You know your wife Janet now for ten Years and you say that you don’t know if she is saved?😂
You messed up bad here! 10 years and not ☝🏼 one time. Not one 😊Bible study of yours Charles did your wife EVER BELIEVE in the Gospel ONCE?? 😂you exposed yourself and your doctrine. Is she a free Grace believer? What condition do you have to accomplish to be considered a free Grace believer? Because supposedly a free grace believer can never lose salvation. 😊
Matthew 7:16-23 KJVS
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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You are.going to bear fruit no matter what you do and that fruit is the result of being a practicing Christian ( following the commandments ) none of us are good … not even one of us …. we all need Jesus . The passage shows that there will be shocked believers who don't know why they didn't make it into the kingdom.
You can either produce good fruit or bad fruit and that will based on your walk in the faith . We need God to be good , we can't save ourselves.
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Ephesians 2:8-9 KJVS
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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Salvation is a gift you receive, and you can not earn it .
Our relationship with God matters .
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Mark 2:21-22 KJVS
No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse. [22] And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
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You must be a new man/person/human or whatever you like … there needs to be change in your life .
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2 Corinthians 5:1-10 KJVS
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. [2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: [3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. [4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. [5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. [6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: [7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) [8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. [9] Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. [10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Matthew 7:14 KJVS
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
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We are on a journey and the paths are many but the true path is narrow .
Salvation is a gift we can not earn but we can't get it if we don't stay on the path and enter the narrow path and enter the door ( Jesus )
No.. . . You can't lose Salvation because God doesn't change his mind .
Jesus died for you and that gift is waiting for you but you have to make it to the finish line .
You can fall away but you can get back up and get back on the path .
Salvation is not something you can make one mistake and never obtain it after that ….. Salvation like your walk with God that is a continual process .
Just as a reminder . . . this is a debate and two people with different views argue their positions and people come to watch to hear both sides .
We need to hear both sides so being rude and interrupting is counterproductive .
2 Timothy 3:5 KJVS
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
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I am not liking Laymans Seminary . . . I understand the passion but that doesn't excuse him being rude and interrupting .
Kelly started with speaking about grace through faith. The moment one believes the gospel of Christ you are sealed with Holy Spirit of promise and truth. Therefore if one doesnt have faith and hope of eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven with Christ, they never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.
Grace is a free gift that God promised us as sinners through His Son Jesus Christ.
I still sin but never lost my faith because I believe the gospel of Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Kingdom of God lives in the heart.
If one doesnt believe anymore in Christ, they dont have faith and hope!
Christ has faith, He believes in us. Our Father in Heaven loves us, we are His children.
There will always be that moment in life where we all will look for God.
Always have faith. Gods grace to His creation. Believe.
Why is Charles SHOUTING???
[ 1:55:00 ] evil people can know how to do good and give a good gift .
Matthew 7:11 KJVS
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
He acts like you beleive and then your set .
Do any evil under the sun and once your dead boom Heaven/paradise awaits …. as long as you believed for enough time . …. so he expects to see a lot of atheist , Satanist and pagans in heaven then I guess .
Kelly outclassed Charles.
Yes… Christians can lose their faith, but not salvation
Charles dosn't like wasting time. I respect that.
@01:51:41
😅😅😅☝🏽💥
Charles destroyed Kelly on this debate. Kelly didnt address any of his points, he just scoffed at most of them.
“You didn’t interact with any of my stuff, yeah it’s a opening not a rebuttal” ??? Bro it’s a debate, the opening is for for stating one’s argument and not a rebuttal to another’s opening.
Kelly Powers working on the Benny Hinn hair.
@1:57:00. While I dont agree with Kelly on most things. His points on marriage shows the weakness of Charles position. He has to categorically argue his way out vs deal with the points practically.
This was a tough one for Donny to moderate and I just couldn't listen anymore, too much arguing and interrupting.
SFT hosts the BEST debates on YouTube. They are always soo informative and exciting!!!
That was a wild one!
Kelly powers is one of the worst apologists
according to Charles beliefs people that once believed but now hate Jesus will go to be with us and when they met Jesus, they can reject Him and hate Him forever but oh well OSAS! what crazy and dangerous beliefs. Kelly is more reasonable IMO.
Kelly is such a crybaby
Kelly is so LONG WINDED…He preaches every answer and wastes time.
If you are predestined to be a child of God, like Jacob. You will never fall away. Why can't that just be said? That's the biblical truth of the matter. A true child of God,which by the way no man can know, can never be unsaved and they will also as a consequence never fall away from the truth of Christ that is in them. No child of God can lose God's Holy Spirit. This is a hard teaching and people don't like it. Be blessed🙏🏼
This actually pretty sad. I feel really bad for this guy. The ground he stads on is very shaky.
lord shippers always have some grand point/example or philosophy pulled from secular sources to hinge their whole argument on… then try and explain the scripture through that wanton man made logic …gets old and its embarrassing for them… again, this guy goes back to a list of people who claimed to have been once Christian… like anyone could possibly know if those people believed the right gospel or not…, Kelly doesn't even know what the right gospel is and that's the point of the debate.. Claiming to be "Christian" means nothing, yet back he goes to wast more time with this irrelevant list… cut to the chase, yes… in theory, if any of those people believed the real gospel, then yes they went to heaven.. regardless of the things they did in life just like anyone else… still proves nothing to bring it up….
This topic is important so people don't get a false sense of security about their eternal security, making biblical salvation the "broad road". (Which is exactly what extreme free grace does, similar to calvinism in that since) . There is a difference between what we in 21st century Western culture define as" believe ",(which is noncommittal and wishy-washy) , and biblical belief, ( which is commital and metamorphic as well as steadfast and enduring).
According to scripture in Ephesians2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are saved unto good works.
And, we are a new creation!
Meaning we are transformed.
2nd Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Also,we can rebel and still be saved, yet even in rebellion of sin we are still "believing " and will not" un believe " as Paul said in Romans 7:15-20
For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
The whole point I am getting at is that we can sin , backslide, the ups and downs of life can shake us to the core. But, will endure and not go worship false God's or become atheists, or Satanist, or any other nonsense. God will not let us once we are saved. And those who do were never truly saved as scripture clearly teaches.
1st John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
only real believers can apostatize…
Wow… Kelly the obvious rude one…
Great job Kelly. Not much to work with but good on you mate.
Lastly, i belive Solomon was a picture of the church age. 🙏🏼✌🏼
Charles and his "free grace" and Kelly with "faith only"…. I don't know which is worse.
These are NOT the gospel of Christ
In fact, God's Word tells us specifically to avoid arguments; “Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful” (2 Timothy 2:23-24).
I'm saying once saved always saved period. Jesus died once. If a man claims to be saved then later denies the existence of God then he was never truly saved. 99.9% of the time he was lying all along
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” End of debate.
OSAS
SALVATION = morally pleasing to GOD .
The whole purpose of GOD’s word .
To walk pleasing in HIS sight . Day by day .
Would one count Moses a righteous man ?
But yet he beheld the promise land with his eyes but his feet did not touch its soil .
Would one say a prophet is righteous.
Many examples of them losing or almost losing their peace ( salvation ) with GOD .
Balaam comes to mind first . Numbers 22
The unnamed prophet second . 1st Kings 13
He was to eat no bread or drink no water .
Exodus 32:33 (KJV) And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
You can not blot out something that was not there .
Isaiah 55:7 (KJV) Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Ezekiel 3:20 (KJV) Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Romans 11:21
For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Luke 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth [it] swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh [to him] seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first.
Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
2 Peter 2:20 (KJV)
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
Revelation 3:5 (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
OSAS is a deceiving doctrine.
Philippians 2:12 (KJV)
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Believing OSAS give a spirit of pride from all that I have seen .
Psalm 10:4 (KJV)
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek [after God]: God [is] not in all his thoughts.
Proverbs 8:13 (KJV)
The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Only GOD knows someone’s heart .
You may think you do .
You can only judge by their fruits.
Oh Lord, the patience Kelly had with Charles. It felt like Charles and the chat were really testing Kelly, but he remained firm in The Lord.
Charles with his Eminem and Dr Dre stuff, man Eminem used to make songs about himself being possessed by demons and all that bs. Know who you listen to. Dr Dre is also a closet homosexual, I dont get why Charles takes inspiration from those men's "music" to use that in a debate, I guess he listens to that type of "music". Eminem called himself the rap god, when Kelly said mind blowing I completely agree. Charles you have to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Saviour Jesus Christ.
people that believe they can know whether other people are saved or not are just self righteous fools….
When a believer believes for the first time they are in fellowship with God… the Spiritual change has taken place,,, but they still live in the flesh, ,,, and if they get out of fellowship for a nano second, they then love themselves instead of God,,, Spiritually they still love God, but not in the flesh they don't… this does not make them any less of a child of God… neither does it prove they are a false convert.. all it proves is that they are out of fellowship with God.. not loving him but still a child of God
What makes two people husband and wife…? their marriage vows before God in a Holy matrimony… the two become one flesh
If a husband falls out of fellowship with his Wife and stops loving her, it doesn't mean she is not STILL HIS WIFE…
what made them husband and wife was not their love or continued fellowship although they are told to love each other… what makes them husband and wife is the Holy matrimony before God
in the same way, what makes a child of God Spiritually is not our continued fellowship, but rather our position spiritually by our initial Faith according to HIS PROMISE…
A lot of times Kelly does not answer the questions. He is just saying random words. Pretending to answer.