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Joel Strickland (@mrproducersir) is a lifelong waterfowler, duck hunting guide and producer/director in the film and television industry.
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What's your go-to ammo for waterfowl?
I shoot a ton of woodies each year with #6 steel shot 1oz payloads within 30 yards. I just recently bought into bismuth and shot #3/5 1oz Boss 2&3/4in. It honestly turned the breast into swiss cheese. Would I be able to get away with a #7 Bismuth load at a higher pellet count just for woodies within 30 yards without risk of crippling (I know I have to make the shot)? Really enjoying this series and is such a needed asset in todays “marketing climate” of hunting. Thanks Joel!
Before everyone gets on the hevi metal truck I just want to share our pattern from yesterday's shooting. And sometimes you miss because they're plum out of range.
Franchi affinity 3.5
Hevi bismuth #2 3.5"
55 yards Carlson's long range .700
5 or 6 bbs in 90 inch circle
Carlson's mid range .710
Same story.
Briley's imp cylinder
Also 5-8 bbs inside the 90 inch area.
We did all of these again with the stock mod and imp cylinder with no change.
Everyone thinks the bismuth carries farther with the same energy but we had to step into 45 yards to get a good pattern. Which the steel patterns we shot looked no better or worse than the bismuth with the same choke at the same range. I get it only one kind of bismuth but the box is $70!
Great video! Hows your season going so far?
I was waiting for LJ to say he shoots ducks at 70 yards all day. I love these guys on the internet. I don't believe you, Sir.
Loving your series, look forward to new installments and sharing with friends. I keep meaning to shoot some Boss ammo, but does your calculus change on 12g/cc tungsten when the price goes down? I’m paying $2/shell for 1-1/8oz #6 which is 230-235 pellets. Last year I caught a sale and paid $1.75. I’d be curious if the penetration and pellet count discrepancy changes the thinking at $0.38 a round difference or less. Regardless, I agree with you that shooting better and shooting less is a winning combo.
I truly wish Boss was available in Canada. I am old enough to have started hunting in the 'good old days of lead' when ducks died when you shot them, steel will never preform as well. Availability and affordability are key factors in buying ammo [in Ontario at least]. All bismuth loads are crazy expensive and super hard to find here. I've been using Hevi Steel 3'' BB on geese for 3 years now, I find it preforms equally to the better loads [kent 2.0, win. dry lock] at a lower price. I have recently invested in some Hevi Hammer loads due to a good sale on at a national distributors, #2's for geese and #4's for ducks [HH only comes in #2 & #4, not sure why] hopefully I will put them to the test this season.
I agree patterns are obviously important but equally important is penetration, enough people don't realize that.
Something that never seems to be addressed in these comparison videos on Ytube is shell length size vs. payload size. Many companies are selling 3" shells with a payload of 11/8 oz. steel [as opposed to 11/4] the same as a 2/34' shell. It's a sales gimmick to watch out for.
Man! I really enjoy these shotgun series, I’m just disliking the wait between videos. My daughter loves watching them with me.
I couldn't agree more …. Know your yardage & learn how to shoot
Iv'e been enjoying your videos, and having tried most "non toxic" loads I ended up using steel for ALL wildfowling; as it is down to skill getting the birds in range and killing them-no matter what you have got in. I don't know if you know that the Italians are making copper shot which seem to work: BUT, COPPER IS TOXIC TO MALLARD. This was found out in the 60s by your scientists in America when testing ingested shot on ducks.
I have a solution! Let us shoot some got damn lead!!!!!
Made me want to change from 1 1/8 to definitely 1 1/4. I've always relied on speed, but know it can put holes in the patterns. I use #2 for me, too covers bit medium and large ducks, and the big bonkers we have.
Very interesting content. I have been patterning my shotguns for years to determine the best choke tube for my gun, but not testing/patterning other ammo. For example, I have been shooting Fed Black Cloud 3 inch, 3 shot, 1 1/8 ounce, 1635 fps through a Benelli SB3 12 gauge. When patterning this combo I found my factory extended 4 notch choke tube (IC) has a tighter pattern at 40 yards than my factory extended tube 3 notch choke tube(Mod). I even went so far as to measure the inside diameter of the tubes with a micrometer. Yes, it appears to me that the tighter choke "blows" the pattern of the 1635 fps Black Cloud. I also found when I crippled a Wood duck at 50 yards, the only pellets the taxidermist and I could find was the round shot, and none of the saturn shaped pellets. This was only one bird, but that is what we found. Based upon your tests, I will try a case of Boss, pattern them, and try them in the field. Thanks for the information!
I’ve used a lot of different brands of steel shot and have found 2 3/4 #4 shot suit my hunting style/ability😉 I choose Fiocchi as the hulls seem to be crimped better and don’t jam up my beretta and use the manufacturers improved cylinder choke.
I plan to do my own bismuth loads this season( a big thanks to you Joel as I didn’t know until watching your videos there was an alternative to steel)so I’m keen to see how it goes 👍👍
I agree and like 1 1/8 oz of steel 2s. Inexpensive but effective for my hunts up here in Alaska. Blindside and Black Cloud were marketing gimicks.
Thank you for all the information. Great video series. Can’t wait for the next one
"I shot a bunch of loads" -Joel Strickland
😂 best quote ever. Jokes aside I love your vids
Joel, I've thanked you before in prior videos in this series, but now I truly mean it. I got brave this year and a little broke. I decided to go out and try different brands and shot sizes. Went and patterned them and found the shells that work very well in my gun. I used to just buy the basic blue box from federal trying to save money but leaving a lot of cripples. I have never folded this many birds, even with some of the hardier later-season birds.
Thank you for convincing me to get out of my comfort zone and try something different.
I shoot a sbe3 20 ga with a jebs 585 and boss 3/5s and at 20 yards the pattern is just bigger than a dinner plate. And at 35-40 it is about 30-32 inches across. So I loved that combo.
Joel, if you want, do some digging on the tss/steel duplex loads. I don't believe they're needed in 12 or even 20 gauge loads where you have the hull space for bismuth or 12-13g/cc shot. It shines in the 28 and 410. Most of the time the steel is really more filler. If you're going to use a filler why not make it lethal filler for distances that don't matter what you hit the bird with?
Since TSS patterns so tight from the get go, loaded under the steel forces it to push through the pattern as the steel slows down causing it to open up. Improved cylinder (in the 28) and even Cyl (in the 410) have super tight patterns with tss, in some cases retaining 90% of the tss pellets in a 30" at the 45 yard mark. .5 oz of tss #8 is 125 pellets, 181 with #9. Retaining 90% is around 110-112 pellets in a 30" circle. Easily doable with both shot sizes and will kill any duck farther than most people can shoot accurately.
Unfortunately I have bought what was available. I have a mixed bag of shells although I tried to keep about 1350 fps. My go to load was hevi shot #2. Which brings me to obsolescence. They dont make it any more. I thought about Hevi XII wjat is your opinion on this ?
TSS blows right through the bird and they hit the ground dead.
I did have mice chew all the tops off a box of hevi metsl shells and I have got one of those seeds in my eye when shooting up.
I shot 3in number 4 shot 1550fps
I've always shot Winchester HiVelocity Xpert – the cheapest shells available at Walmart – until I found Winchester Dryloks on clearance after the 2020 season ended… I bought about 16 boxes, the last of which I'm using right now…. And I've got at least a box or 2 worth sitting in a ziplock bag with rusted heads. Out of everything I patterned through my SX4, Winchester Xperts and Dryloks patterned best for me. Now that I'm towards the end of the box of Dryloks and mixing in Xperts, I can tell the difference between the plated & regular steel.
I shoot win experts , and 3 inch 1550 only have a 1 1/8 of shot only and I also use Fiocchi 3 1/2 2 shot zinc plated , 1430 ft and a 1 5/8 ounce of shot lots of pellets and i use these on ducks and got a deal on them so bought 2 cases
I was hunting last weekend, the wind was really strong. I was using Kent #2 steel and Federal #4 steel, I had very tough time killing birds. Missed about 18-20 shots. It was just horrible and frustrating. It was overcast and wind gusts was 40 to 45 mph.
I really dislike steel. Always have to use big pellets. Which makes a bad pattern. What about lead on a bird, makes a big difference. What part of the bird are you leading ??? Head/neck or body
Hey Joel,
I really like the information. It can be confusing and much of your info does cause me to question my current thought process. This is not a bad thing in my opinion but rather a teaching/learning opportunity that many folks aren't taking advantage of. Great work Joel, God Bless..
Great info Joel!
Excellent video! I’ve shot thousands of patterns and killed thousands of birds with lead, steel, bismuth, and every tungsten alloy imaginable. Your conclusions are spot-on with my own. One minor point I would emphasize is that you should adjust your choke to get the lethal pattern density (i.e. 100 for large ducks) at therange you shoot. In other words, use the most open choke possible that still holds a minimum lethal pattern at maximum range. This ensures you have the widest possible patterns at every range. I know I appreciate every advantage I can give myself as I get older.
This series has been great!
I really appreciate this series. I have any been waterfowl hunting for a few years now and I really love it. Thank you for explaining things clearly and expanding my understanding of waterfowl hunting.
He tested over 30 loads
Great video like always
Hey Joel,
So I'm rewatching for the 3rd time and taking better notes then my college days… lol.. Great info and want to do some testing myself.. God Bless…
I mean thats some good info but you also through in some stuff thats not actually true. Though I dont think shooting birds at farther than 40 yards is ethical 4’s that pattern well are capable of consistent clean kills at farther distances. Lots of good info but you just add a lot of seemingly condescending opinions that are necessary to the information and contradict what you are saying. These videos are also not very in depth about actual numbers most of these are information anyone who has ever patterned a gun could know( besides slowmow shot string) you say you use all of tbis data but rarely show all of your numbers just opinions on what you found. Give us raw data and let us make decisions instead of beating around the bush for most the video.
Had to start shooting steel BB in late season because we had one hunt that we chased multiple cripples with the #3’s we usually shoot. I’ve fallen in love with BB, paired with extended modified choke everything under 50yds is dead. I’ll have to try the Boss shells though, just have to increase my hunting savings account 😅
Out of curiosity, Where did you get that pellet to weight ratio graff.
As far as steel shot goes in the 12gauge 1 shot can't be beat for Mallards. Choked correctly it results in clean kill to 50yds.
I'm old and have been shooting Ducks & Geese since 1965. I have a lot of experience with lead shot. Yes, we did have cripples using lead shot. I eventually started hand loading my own Waterfowl loads. My go to favorite lead load for Ducks was 1-3/8 oz of hard # 4' s@ 1350 FPS in a 2-3/4" AA hull. Had to start using the poor steel loads eventually and they were miserably bad at the time. After many years of using about every steel load, My Duck favorites are Kent Fasteel or Fiocchi in the 12 Ga. 3"1-1/8, 1-1/5 #3's @ 1550 FPS., both use plated shot. This was from many years of actual field testing with Ducks hitting the pond. I've only missed a couple of Waterfowl seasons since 1965. I won't use any of the other lead replacements for Waterfowl since I've found steel loads that work fine. I do use Heavy Shot for Turkeys since it only takes a few shells for that. Best choke I found for over decoys is the Comp N Choke I.C. Takes birds easily out to 40 YDS.
Winchester xx steel are junk pellets, but great inside 20yds with #4 in 2 3/4. Pulled a #2 out of some dog food last night. The pellet had a booger and dimple on opposite ends. Big enough to obviously effect travel at distance.
Excellent content Sir. Keep it up
Man I don't know, I think the boss ammo is duck seeking bismuth! I have had far more success this season than any other and this is my first using boss. I can probably attribute that to getting a gun that actually fits correctly but I like to claim it's just the ammo lol 😆
Hey Joel, how are the rest of the "How To" vids for the pups coming along? I'm in the process of researching this topic cause I'm get'n too old and fat to trudge across muddy rice fields chase'n sailing birds. The list you had at the end of the "Finding a New DUCK DOG | Where to start" sounds like it will have a lot of great info in it! 😁
Norway have apparently lifted their lead ban on shooting, even wildfowl as the science is inconclusive!
Thanks for the upload. Another great informative vid. You’re the man Joel.
This is such a helpful video. I patterned all sorts of different ammo in my shotgun yesterday. I only had 15” targets available, would it be safe to just cut the recommended pellet count to kill a duck in half? Or is there more to it than that? How would you rate your patterns on circles that small?
I shot only a couple geese with my 16 gauge using lead, then had to go to steel. The Winchester 1550 speed became the absolute standard for ducks and geese with my 12 guage for years. TSS is now the king. Absolutely no intelligent argument for a better killing load although it's cost is very high. We can't let emotions of cost take away from the fact that it's absolutely better than anything else available. BOSS is a great compromise but it's still bismuth. It shatters, and I mean absolutely shatters on impact. I've had #3 shatter in a crow. These days I shoot a 20 guage eith either bismuth or the Apex TSS blend with steel. Contrary to youtube videos, 50 yards isn't "in the decoys, in your face". Get the birds right or don't shoot.
So you like the boss 2 3/4 3/5 for ducks and geese ?
Have you took a set of calipers and compared the actual size of the shot? I know with buckshot a true 00 is .33 caliber. Yet some manufacturers load .31 caliber pellets and call them 00 loads. Just wondering how one companies #2 compares to another's. I know it would seem a small difference but you may find one companies #3 is another companies #4.