I’m sure this will be the one that creates more ripples.
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Hearing you talk about people piling on top of what's "meta", it actually makes me glad to main White Mage, a job that is never ever placed in a high tier. 😌
Pretty much, although with the recent nidhogg phase in DSR (and the first weeks of P8S doorboss), it makes me a little sad that their new tighter dps checks actually made meta, for the first time, something that somewhat mattered. Had the extreme displeasure to run a cursed comp (PLD/WAR) for nidhogg, and the difference with a good one was ungodly.
Literally everything you said applies to any other game where parsing is a common practice. Especially WoW, which invented this shit. Parsing, actually damage meters in general, is what made me give up on healing in WoW. For SOME REASON people tracking hps in WoW and will be like "uhhh why is your healing low" without recognizing that if someone else heals someone… I can't heal them. OR if I'm having to triage the tank who can't use their defensives properly (at all) I can't get a lot of hps with aoes because if I did that instead of babysitting we would just wipe. I hate hate hate parsing. These smoothbrains only know if one number is bigger than another but doing that uses all of their brain power and they have none left to figure out WHY. I'm glad talking about parsing in ff14 can get you banned, and I'm glad even modding your UI isn't allowed. The people that hyper focus on their stupid number actively make the game worse, no matter what they're playing.
Can confirm as a 'higher rank' parser I actively want my favorite job to be harder instead of easier because I think it would be more fun to press more buttons… maybe I am just crazy though.
These are some of the same reasons I've always hated how people summarize Black Mage in their "What Job Should I Play??" or "[Job] Explained" videos. Instead of actually talking about how it feels to play the job (which is arguably more important when deciding what to play first), almost every video just states that, "Black Mage is the highest DPSing class in the game," and leaves it at that. This very deceptive claim has actually outright ruined the experience of one of my friends who tried to get into the game.
My friend has a nasty habit of checking tier lists before jumping into games so that he can play what's "meta" and feel powerful. When deciding to give FF14 a try, he watched guides and saw tier lists that seemed to rank Black Mage as "the best" and chose to play it as his introduction to the game only to find it — unsurprisingly — extremely boring. He gave up on it before even reaching Sastasha (this was before the content cuts to ARR, to be fair).
I tried to warn him ahead of time, telling him that "the meta" doesn't really mean anything in this game with the exception of high-end raiding — and even then it was a tiny margin of difference that only the most extreme number crunchers cared about. I encouraged him to try out different jobs in hopes he'd find something that fit his playstyle better. However, he couldn't quite grasp the idea that tier lists and "the meta" would lie to him and didn't seem to believe me that the difference between jobs were miniscule (especially in casual content). Ultimately he shot down the idea of trying other jobs due to the fact that they weren't "the most powerful."
In the end, he returned to the game a second time only to once again try Black Mage (or rather, Thaumaturge…) and gave up before the first dungeon — this time citing that he "looked at the skills [Black Mage] gets later" and that "none of it looked interesting."
It still bothers me to this day that he hasn't given the game a fair shake. While I don't agree with his decisions to quit playing, he's still a very good friend of mine who also enjoys a good story and I was very excited for him to sink his teeth into the world of FF14.
That healer part… I felt that…. More than I should
This is the way corporation treat their employees. You might be a top performer but they will will always b*tch about some other “metrics” you aren’t hitting. People should just be allowed to do the best they can and have fun in the process.
Easily best video of all time.
What a fantastic video, especially in current tier with whiners and logs slaves everywhere
Thats not how that graph works though. The filled in box contains 75% of the data, with the little 'fences' containing up to, usually, 1.5x the interquartile range. Anything outside of this is labeled with a dot noting that it is an outlier, either particularly well above the normal range or particularly well below the normal range. In statistical testing, you would then find the mean and the standard deviation, check where 3 standard deviations lie, and then check if the different ranges overlap. If they overlap, there is no meaningful statistical difference. If they overlap, there is evidence of a statistical difference.
So without knowing the standard deviation of each job's parce, you can't say that there is no difference between jobs or that the difference is not significant.
However
You can say that the lowest total party dps is x and that every standard job composition is capable of hitting that number, therefor it is meaningless.
I parse just to make sure I'm doing my best and am not making any mistakes, especially for progging. Starting with 6.2 I started using parses to compare my job's new rotation with how good its old rotation is. Parsing has its place. But greeding and trying to optimize to hell and back to get a max parse is just being needlessly competitive.
Parses also can tell you when another player is doing really, really badly. I had a friend whose static had a Monk who was doing comparable rDPS to their Dancer… they ended up having to kick that Monk and replace them with some melee who actually could do their rotation. They could barely beat some DPS checks with them, and even then it was only because their Ninja was going above and beyond to make up the difference. Parsers definitely helped there to show them the obvious problem.
3:40 Nah, a gray parse basically means you didn't pull your weight. I had multiple Ultimate clears with grey parsers, and you know what they did during all of the prog until the clear? They were the ones making the most mistakes or getting strats entirely wrong. They basically had to get carried by other people picking up their slack. It's especially bad for phys ranged players who don't even have cast times or melee uptime to worry about, yet have lower uptime %s than the melees or casters.
It's even worse on other content that's more accessible. I've seen Extreme parties with DPS doing less damage than the tanks, or even the healers, between constant deaths and not even getting their basic rotation correct. One guy was even the PF leader, telling other people to use Food and pots on Endsinger EX, when he was eating the floor half the fight and spamming jolt the other half. There definitely is a correlation between grey parsers and bad players in general.
I mean, tell us how you REALLY feel. 🙂
Pretty much agree 100% and fantastic points made. The only people that really care about all this outside of speedrunners/theorycrafters are people that aren't QUITE to the top, but are close enough they wanna be.
Casuals don't care. Most of the mid-core doesn't care. The true top end players don't care. It's that slice that's not the 1% but is above 90%. We can call them the 90-99%. Whatever that blob of people is.
fun fact: the reason PSO2 banned western IP addresses after release in Japan was because western players constantly obsessed over what was "best" while Japanese players just wanted to play what they liked/what was viable (worth noting that PSO2 is a vastly different game from FFXIV, but the comparison is still applicable)
bizarre how the region of the world globally known for its astronomical concentration of narcissism would carry that into gaming. so weird
Spoken like a true grey parser
Hey – just wanted to say CONGRATULATIONS (P8S P1 was harder before the HP nerf) on the ABYSSOS: THE EIGHTH CIRCLE (SAVAGE) (DOOR BOSS) (it was harder before the HP nerf) CLEAR. I know you've been working really hard (P8S P1 used to be harder) at it, and I'm happy that you've (P8S P1 used to be harder) achieved your goal of completion. Congratulations (P8S P1 used to be so much harder before the HP nerf) once again, and here's to more success in your future (P8S P1 used to be harder) endeavors!
As a console player….I struggle alot but I give it what I can. Sadly I'll never be able to track the dps like others.but in my opinion people who use this system to berate others and make the game unfun really suck. So thank you for this.
These are some of the reasons why I will never get into recent savage raids. People think ff14 isn't as toxic as WoW but that is far from the truth.
Great video!!!!
dont remember who said it but there's a quote that can be summed up as "when left alone, poeple will optimize the fun out of a game"
Had some clown from Sargatanas parsing and bitching about DPS despite the fact we were zooming through a raid like no problem. Folks like that need to remain in WoW, oof.
I feel like some points are made that actually are more representative of idiocy of the person saying them than it being the general consensus amongst all raiders. People actually are aware that for some classes you need to look at rDPS and not aDPS. Also, 0.1% wipes happen all the time so a few percent difference in dps can affect when you clear, but that does not mean a player who is extremely comfortable at mch should switch to dnc if they never played it. Its extremely common to hear from top teams that the choice of their classes was picked due to how comfortable they play it, and not because they were the top of that class. So yeah.. this video is more about the stupid bunch of raiders rather than the society overall. For many raiders, these things being said are for memes and we actually don't care. If we smell someone actually caring its a red flag.
To hardcore parsers, all I can say is, you're not cool, no one cares and if you are the one causing raid wipes, we all hate you.
if you want tell me how much damage I am doing. reporting you be my first thing. cannot call people out in ff14
I had a static a couple of years ago that insisted so much on uptime that they'd die for their parse, and i consistently would get frustrated with them and inform them that surviving and getting the clear is the only thing that matters until you actually know the mechanics. So many people are parse-chasers before they even have a clear! Makes me want to quit raiding entirely.
can't forget the people that blame your 1 missed gcd for the lack of damage, when they can't do the fight without callouts, or when they are consistently getting hit by damage downs.
I was trying to get a WoW friend to try out 14 which happens to be the ONLY numbered FF game they haven't even tried to play! They even use to play XI, but won't try XIV. His reason was that it didn't seem "competitive" enough since addons are against ToS and he likes to see his numbers against the other players. I have played WoW with this friend and know his actual play style so I finally felt I needed to give him a reality check. I told him that if 2nd place is "first loser"? Then he is like 5000th loser in WoW – just like the majority of WoW players – and isn't really competitive at all or even better than the majority of WoW players. I also told him that If he were truly competitive, then he wouldn't be using this metric – he'd be trying out for Method or a Mythic+ team to actually compete – but he's not so therefore he's just another schmuck like the rest of us. Yes, he still talks to me, but no he still won't try the game.
i insta report anyone i meet who mentions anything to do about parsing at this point
These morons who care so much about parsing can't even clear without plugins.
Alright, you get a like purely for your incredible delivery at 2:01.
FuCkFaCeS
I feel like a god when I give my party a damage buff as a DRG. I think it might be worth my numbers being 1% lower.
Parsing does have one very helpful usage, in pugs especially. Figuring out which of the other 7 random strangers (or yourself) isn't pulling their weight when a PF group fails to meet the enrage timer.
The day things like FFLogs and other parsing stuff burn to unrecognizable piles of ash,
I will throw a party at my house and for a few days straight at that.
It will be a huge relieve to celebrate. Honestly, can't wait for it.
This is a gift from the imported WoW players. Just like the toxic dungeon culture
Me internally screaming in my FFlogs only including my first time playing raids when I was playing with minimum ilvl gear. Like I swear I'm better now gear wise and play wise but the only thing representing me there now is raids from several months ago that got thrown up there without even my permission.