44 thoughts on “It's Time to Bang the Game Ownership Drum Again | Extra Punctuation”
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Funny timing givrn how there is a atudy that 87 percent of games in the last 30 years pre 2010 are basically unobtainable by legal means. Like heck many of these will be considered lost media if it wasnt for the internet. That is a SCARY thought the level of preservation is so small compare to other medium.
Everything that's happening with consoles already happened with PC. I would like to know that you can at least order a physical version of a game made and shipped to you, even if there's an added fee (or better yet digital games are always cheaper but haha that's not happening). But consoles aren't going to be accepting physical media either next gen or the one after that, with the exception being Nintendo because innovation-wise they're ahead of the curve but tech-wise they're still in the prohibition era.
I've never played destiny but apparently in destiny 2 they've released so much crap that they decided to start removing, or "vaulting" old content. this means that people who paid for old expansions can now never play them. i can't believe that this exists or that people accepted it
This is why I find the PC port important to game preservation, I have a ton of old game discs, but a hard drive is much more simple to future proof. Now I can hold on to the Persona collection without needing to hold on to the PS Vita I never bought. The only problem is Nintendo refuses to use PC or even rerelease most games after N64 era in a virtual capacity, so yes piracy is a necessity for preservation. I just wanted to play Fire Emblem Radiance series without breaking the bank on second hand discs.
This argument seems kinda pointless cause u can run steam offline and play any of the downloaded games u have. Discs are also digital media and are just as likely, if not more so, to get corrupted as drives. Also discs still require u to download stuff to ur systems, idk if internet is needed or not in this case tho.
The issue isn't physical vs. digital, because there are physical games that require you to always be online (and regardless of your connection strength, those servers will go down someday), and digital games can be preserved very easily; the issue is DRM. Buying a game from Steam is renting it; buying a game from GOG is owning it. The reason people still cling to physical for preservation is because on consoles, it's hard to impossible to preserve digital games; it's totally different on PC.
Biggest snag i have with the comparison of video games to movies and dvds and books as physical is that the media in which they were printed have much more longevity as the standard. Dvd has been around 25 years and baring bluray players having to be updated, i think any age dvd player will play a modern dvd. Books speaking for themselves, if i put a neo geo cd in my ps5 it wont play, my ps1 games wont play on my ps5. Each console is its own walled garden. In that regard its like consoles are closer to betamax, laserdisc, and hd dvd.
There's another angle that gets overlooked. I have ADHD, which compromises my object permanence – if I only own things digitally, I forget about them. If they're on a shelf then there's a reminder of their existence sat just behind my desk, and I'm that little bit more likely to actually get round to enjoying them.
Counter points 1. Companies will want to retain ownership of any particularly valuable IP. Most countries require the IP to be in use, in some fashion, to maintain Copy Right and Patent. So, companies either must create a new entry, remaster an old entry, or rewrite an old entry. New entries tend to be less successful than the original for a variety or reason. Especially if the writing stinks or ruins concepts the fans enjoyed from the prior entries. Remasters remain a safe bet, that tends to cost less, since it is just a graphics overhaul. Sometimes a UI overhaul and an update to outdated controls. Rewriting an old entry seeks to grab both of the positive aspects of the two prior concepts, and make it worth more. These can succeed simply by watching how close of a line is drawn with a remaster, and correcting lore issues. Dead Space remake did an excellent job of making the first one fit in better with the lore of the other two. In all likelihood, when Dead Space 2 remaster comes through, a new direction will be taken so that Dead Space 3 remake will be completely different from the original Dead Space 3. I don't believe most will complain about this.
2. Updating a game for "modern audiences" typically mean socialist twats from a big city want the prestige of the title without doing the work of the title. This always fails.
3. Historical precedent does not imply future events. Correctly analyzing a situation and determining the differences between the two, along with being lucky, allows for proper future planning. Using the vaccination thing, since you enjoy it so much. Experimental technology creates a "miracle" which defines prior knowledge of what a vaccine is. Oh by the way, unless you have proper papers of said vaccine you cannot see your dying family members, do business, or live. Soon that "miracle" label fades, and the manufacturer tries to say it is just as good as traditional vaccines, but more information emerges about those who take it and boosters suffering a near guarantee drop in physical health. If you notice this, the government beats you over the head with a stick. Yeah, historically, a government enforced program with negative side effects for a population while benefiting donors tends to not do nice things for the country overall. I think those things are called banana republics.
I think that something missing from the conversation is that some games have what is essentially a limited life spanā¦ my examples is Star Wars Galaxies a Game I bought the collector edition for and never got to play for one reason or another and eventually it ceased to exist and now all that is left are memoriesā¦ can you imagine if the Godfather Trilogy you only had a certain amount of years to watch it and the all the copies exploded ā¦
But you don't OWN a game, you never have. If you buy a DVD, you don't OWN a movie, it's the same thing. A DVD, and therefore also video games is a license. You own a LICENSE for a movie or videogame. It's the same with a ticket to a movie theatre screening, you don't own the movie just cause you bought a theatre ticket. To a certain extent, I wonder if Yahtzee knows this stuff, he's not stupid. He's just lying to his audience, this is clickbait in the most cynical way.
tbh even when you get a physical disc these days, it's generally not going to contain the whole game. First thing that happens when you stick it in the console is it starts downloading the rest of the game and the Day One Patch.
as a personal rule, i only buy a game if it has an offline, single-player mode and comes on a physical copy. it's…kinda limiting my options this generation, if i'm being honest. more and more games on my shelf are imports or previous-gen versions because they were my only options.
…also i may need to check that game out and add it to the backlog. thanks, yahtzee.
Speaking of remasters Iāve noticed almost every single remaster fucks up the lighting itās almost impressive how inept so many devs are at not messing up lighting when āimproving itā.
I mean GOG games stay on your hard drive forever and can legally be burnt onto a disc and buried. Digital != Ephermeral
Megacorps just want you to think that way so people fixate on the inefficient and ultimately very unlikely to win out idea of physical media, rather than asking the actually dangerous question of why exactly we're paying these people to strap time bombs to perfectly preservable games.
Counterpoint, Yahtzee: I bought a physical copy of Armored Core 2 way back in the space year 2000. How many times have I bought Armored Core 2 since then? Why, zero times of course! Deleting consumer-owned copies of games is basic multiplication! It's free money! Publishers would be foolish not to take advantage.
A video game is a drink of water, not the cup from we drink it. Get with the times, old man.
I've changed… I had to crank this up to 1.75 speed and even then it wasn't as fast as these videos were back in the day… or so it seems…. As I said… I've changed.
I love having hard copies of my games. I had a point in time where 6 months of my year was spent at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, where internet access is a pipe dream… so hard copies and offline games were the best thing I could have. I memorized Dying Light while up there, and played Final Fantasy 15 & The Witcher 3 for the first time up there. As such, being able to play stuff offline and online is a big deal for me. I don't have to go up there anymore, but its now a reflex to make sure that whatever game or movie I get is both on and offline available.
Our attachement to internet is so absolute that I had a very funny and frustrating interaction today related to it. The short version is I had to call to replace the card on file for my ISP because it was decliend and my internet got turned off. Being one of those weird people with a flip phone and desk top computer I got their phone number off the side of my modem and called to update the card. The phone person spent the first 10 minutes trying to talk me into using their online service to update my payment method. I informed her I couldn't which is why I called. She said, "oh no its super easy you just go to our website.." "I can't" "well if you don't know the address I can email a link to you" "i can't access my email." "the online utility is easier and you don't have to wait on hold on the phone" at which point I had to remind her that I had called because my internet had been turned off, that is why I was on the phone with her in the first place. There was a long pause and she said, I kid you not, "well yes but we could reactivate your internet as soon as we get your payment and it would be faster to make your payment online" at which point i hung up, called back,and thankfully got someone that understood why they would have to take my card over the phone.
Our attachement to internet is so absolute that I had a very funny and frustrating interaction today related to it. The short version is I had to call to replace the card on file for my ISP because it was decliend and my internet got turned off. Being one of those weird people with a flip phone and desk top computer I got their phone number off the side of my modem and called to update the card. The phone person spent the first 10 minutes trying to talk me into using their online service to update my payment method. I informed her I couldn't which is why I called. She said, "oh no its super easy you just go to our website.." "I can't" "well if you don't know the address I can email a link to you" "i can't access my email." "the online utility is easier and you don't have to wait on hold on the phone" at which point I had to remind her that I had called because my internet had been turned off, that is why I was on the phone with her in the first place. There was a long pause and she said, I kid you not, "well yes but we could reactivate your internet as soon as we get your payment and it would be faster to make your payment online" at which point i hung up, called back,and thankfully got someone that understood why they would have to take my card over the phone.
i find it amusing that piracy has accidentally been fair better at preserving media then most things i am currently replaying black and white and its sequel with its expansion somthing that just isnt possible thanks to them being completley abandoned thers even a well made mod for the sequel called rebirth
People keep asking me if I'm excited for the Silent Hill 2 remake because I keep saying how Silent Hill 2 is one of the best games I've ever played. I tell people I am the opposite of excited for it, because I would much rather a faithful port of the original is brought to availability for modern hardware. I am a firm believer that these game remakes should come with a port of the original as well, because I truly doubt that the Silent Hill 2 Remake will successfully capture any of what made the original magical, even if the PS2 version has an awful camera and tank controls. And actually every other reason Yahtzee said also pops up in my mind. If we're trying to preserve art, it needs to be kept intact, warts and all.
Thank you to Robot Cache for sponsoring this video. Download Wasteland 3 for free courtesy of Robot Cache using this link: https://bit.ly/extrapunctuation
The Pirate Bay icon ~*chef's kiss*~
Funny timing givrn how there is a atudy that 87 percent of games in the last 30 years pre 2010 are basically unobtainable by legal means. Like heck many of these will be considered lost media if it wasnt for the internet. That is a SCARY thought the level of preservation is so small compare to other medium.
I still buy physical!
Lots of shows are digital only too. There is no excuse for that either.
Everything that's happening with consoles already happened with PC. I would like to know that you can at least order a physical version of a game made and shipped to you, even if there's an added fee (or better yet digital games are always cheaper but haha that's not happening). But consoles aren't going to be accepting physical media either next gen or the one after that, with the exception being Nintendo because innovation-wise they're ahead of the curve but tech-wise they're still in the prohibition era.
That intro was so gay
I've never played destiny but apparently in destiny 2 they've released so much crap that they decided to start removing, or "vaulting" old content. this means that people who paid for old expansions can now never play them. i can't believe that this exists or that people accepted it
Ahh, I see that someone watched the most recent Completionist video.
Well atleast game piracy is doing some good jobe here
This is why I find the PC port important to game preservation, I have a ton of old game discs, but a hard drive is much more simple to future proof. Now I can hold on to the Persona collection without needing to hold on to the PS Vita I never bought. The only problem is Nintendo refuses to use PC or even rerelease most games after N64 era in a virtual capacity, so yes piracy is a necessity for preservation. I just wanted to play Fire Emblem Radiance series without breaking the bank on second hand discs.
This argument seems kinda pointless cause u can run steam offline and play any of the downloaded games u have. Discs are also digital media and are just as likely, if not more so, to get corrupted as drives. Also discs still require u to download stuff to ur systems, idk if internet is needed or not in this case tho.
The issue isn't physical vs. digital, because there are physical games that require you to always be online (and regardless of your connection strength, those servers will go down someday), and digital games can be preserved very easily; the issue is DRM. Buying a game from Steam is renting it; buying a game from GOG is owning it. The reason people still cling to physical for preservation is because on consoles, it's hard to impossible to preserve digital games; it's totally different on PC.
Biggest snag i have with the comparison of video games to movies and dvds and books as physical is that the media in which they were printed have much more longevity as the standard. Dvd has been around 25 years and baring bluray players having to be updated, i think any age dvd player will play a modern dvd. Books speaking for themselves, if i put a neo geo cd in my ps5 it wont play, my ps1 games wont play on my ps5. Each console is its own walled garden. In that regard its like consoles are closer to betamax, laserdisc, and hd dvd.
"Gamers should be able to own the games they bought"
wow Yahtzee. Really taking a controversial stance there.
There's another angle that gets overlooked. I have ADHD, which compromises my object permanence – if I only own things digitally, I forget about them. If they're on a shelf then there's a reminder of their existence sat just behind my desk, and I'm that little bit more likely to actually get round to enjoying them.
Counter points
1. Companies will want to retain ownership of any particularly valuable IP. Most countries require the IP to be in use, in some fashion, to maintain Copy Right and Patent. So, companies either must create a new entry, remaster an old entry, or rewrite an old entry.
New entries tend to be less successful than the original for a variety or reason. Especially if the writing stinks or ruins concepts the fans enjoyed from the prior entries.
Remasters remain a safe bet, that tends to cost less, since it is just a graphics overhaul. Sometimes a UI overhaul and an update to outdated controls.
Rewriting an old entry seeks to grab both of the positive aspects of the two prior concepts, and make it worth more. These can succeed simply by watching how close of a line is drawn with a remaster, and correcting lore issues.
Dead Space remake did an excellent job of making the first one fit in better with the lore of the other two. In all likelihood, when Dead Space 2 remaster comes through, a new direction will be taken so that Dead Space 3 remake will be completely different from the original Dead Space 3. I don't believe most will complain about this.
2. Updating a game for "modern audiences" typically mean socialist twats from a big city want the prestige of the title without doing the work of the title. This always fails.
3. Historical precedent does not imply future events. Correctly analyzing a situation and determining the differences between the two, along with being lucky, allows for proper future planning. Using the vaccination thing, since you enjoy it so much. Experimental technology creates a "miracle" which defines prior knowledge of what a vaccine is. Oh by the way, unless you have proper papers of said vaccine you cannot see your dying family members, do business, or live. Soon that "miracle" label fades, and the manufacturer tries to say it is just as good as traditional vaccines, but more information emerges about those who take it and boosters suffering a near guarantee drop in physical health. If you notice this, the government beats you over the head with a stick. Yeah, historically, a government enforced program with negative side effects for a population while benefiting donors tends to not do nice things for the country overall. I think those things are called banana republics.
I think that something missing from the conversation is that some games have what is essentially a limited life spanā¦ my examples is Star Wars Galaxies a Game I bought the collector edition for and never got to play for one reason or another and eventually it ceased to exist and now all that is left are memoriesā¦ can you imagine if the Godfather Trilogy you only had a certain amount of years to watch it and the all the copies exploded ā¦
NIce advertisement from a scam crrapto miner
Those who remember the past are doomed to watch everyone else repeat it.
Technology is fine until it becomes an easy means for greedheads to control the past and boil everything down to apps.
ā¤ā¤
"That's why libraries have never driven bookshops out of business".
Preach brother…
But you don't OWN a game, you never have. If you buy a DVD, you don't OWN a movie, it's the same thing. A DVD, and therefore also video games is a license. You own a LICENSE for a movie or videogame. It's the same with a ticket to a movie theatre screening, you don't own the movie just cause you bought a theatre ticket.
To a certain extent, I wonder if Yahtzee knows this stuff, he's not stupid. He's just lying to his audience, this is clickbait in the most cynical way.
tbh even when you get a physical disc these days, it's generally not going to contain the whole game. First thing that happens when you stick it in the console is it starts downloading the rest of the game and the Day One Patch.
just make games NFTs problem solved. hey what are you doing with that pitchfork
How is a Spanish man flirting aggressively 'outdated sexual politics' ? š
There's also the issue of hardware to play the games on not only becoming obsolete, but also wearing out.
Didn't G2A also let you sell used digital games?
"How can you know a movie is good, if you've never seen a bad one?"
as a personal rule, i only buy a game if it has an offline, single-player mode and comes on a physical copy. it's…kinda limiting my options this generation, if i'm being honest. more and more games on my shelf are imports or previous-gen versions because they were my only options.
…also i may need to check that game out and add it to the backlog. thanks, yahtzee.
That was so cool how y'all had Kenneth from 30 Rock on the intro! What a cameo
Speaking of remasters Iāve noticed almost every single remaster fucks up the lighting itās almost impressive how inept so many devs are at not messing up lighting when āimproving itā.
I mean GOG games stay on your hard drive forever and can legally be burnt onto a disc and buried. Digital != Ephermeral
Megacorps just want you to think that way so people fixate on the inefficient and ultimately very unlikely to win out idea of physical media, rather than asking the actually dangerous question of why exactly we're paying these people to strap time bombs to perfectly preservable games.
Piracy is basically what preserves gaming history. Even online only games, if they are loved enough, will not go away. Like old MMOs.
So, can you tell us more about this game you call "Wet"?
Counterpoint, Yahtzee: I bought a physical copy of Armored Core 2 way back in the space year 2000. How many times have I bought Armored Core 2 since then? Why, zero times of course! Deleting consumer-owned copies of games is basic multiplication! It's free money! Publishers would be foolish not to take advantage.
A video game is a drink of water, not the cup from we drink it. Get with the times, old man.
I've changed… I had to crank this up to 1.75 speed and even then it wasn't as fast as these videos were back in the day… or so it seems…. As I said… I've changed.
I love having hard copies of my games. I had a point in time where 6 months of my year was spent at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, where internet access is a pipe dream… so hard copies and offline games were the best thing I could have. I memorized Dying Light while up there, and played Final Fantasy 15 & The Witcher 3 for the first time up there.
As such, being able to play stuff offline and online is a big deal for me. I don't have to go up there anymore, but its now a reflex to make sure that whatever game or movie I get is both on and offline available.
Our attachement to internet is so absolute that I had a very funny and frustrating interaction today related to it. The short version is I had to call to replace the card on file for my ISP because it was decliend and my internet got turned off. Being one of those weird people with a flip phone and desk top computer I got their phone number off the side of my modem and called to update the card. The phone person spent the first 10 minutes trying to talk me into using their online service to update my payment method. I informed her I couldn't which is why I called. She said, "oh no its super easy you just go to our website.." "I can't" "well if you don't know the address I can email a link to you" "i can't access my email." "the online utility is easier and you don't have to wait on hold on the phone" at which point I had to remind her that I had called because my internet had been turned off, that is why I was on the phone with her in the first place. There was a long pause and she said, I kid you not, "well yes but we could reactivate your internet as soon as we get your payment and it would be faster to make your payment online" at which point i hung up, called back,and thankfully got someone that understood why they would have to take my card over the phone.
Our attachement to internet is so absolute that I had a very funny and frustrating interaction today related to it. The short version is I had to call to replace the card on file for my ISP because it was decliend and my internet got turned off. Being one of those weird people with a flip phone and desk top computer I got their phone number off the side of my modem and called to update the card. The phone person spent the first 10 minutes trying to talk me into using their online service to update my payment method. I informed her I couldn't which is why I called. She said, "oh no its super easy you just go to our website.." "I can't" "well if you don't know the address I can email a link to you" "i can't access my email." "the online utility is easier and you don't have to wait on hold on the phone" at which point I had to remind her that I had called because my internet had been turned off, that is why I was on the phone with her in the first place. There was a long pause and she said, I kid you not, "well yes but we could reactivate your internet as soon as we get your payment and it would be faster to make your payment online" at which point i hung up, called back,and thankfully got someone that understood why they would have to take my card over the phone.
i find it amusing that piracy has accidentally been fair better at preserving media then most things i am currently replaying black and white and its sequel with its expansion somthing that just isnt possible thanks to them being completley abandoned thers even a well made mod for the sequel called rebirth
Excuse me, did you just refer to Shrek The Third as shovelware? Take that back right now!
People keep asking me if I'm excited for the Silent Hill 2 remake because I keep saying how Silent Hill 2 is one of the best games I've ever played.
I tell people I am the opposite of excited for it, because I would much rather a faithful port of the original is brought to availability for modern hardware.
I am a firm believer that these game remakes should come with a port of the original as well, because I truly doubt that the Silent Hill 2 Remake will successfully capture any of what made the original magical, even if the PS2 version has an awful camera and tank controls.
And actually every other reason Yahtzee said also pops up in my mind. If we're trying to preserve art, it needs to be kept intact, warts and all.