Jaffe, it's funny to watch your channel, because at the same time you want to bring up these high IQ designer subjects to talk about, while you also try to appeal to the average angry simpleton gamer, like you want to be a Colin Moriarty. You try to juggle with these two audiences!
Not for my money, a map marker is totally fine and the developers are putting in "options" to turn it off. As for losing yourself… it is an illusion, From just didn't do any work. They don't do much story, no breadcrumbs, no systems beyond combat. It is cool they finally added jumping and a mount. They only influence I can see would be that when you go to a spot on the map (whether it is marked or not), there is something unique there. The open world design still needs to be a go here… do this though. If not you aren't immersed you are just wandering.
Many players saying saying we cant play 30 fps anymore, but sudently Suck in 30 and 60 barely but hey we love a game who looks Old gen and Frames Suck but ok, people can change his mind so easily, and sure some people like to spend hour looking a map with cero sing.
Where has this person been? Tons of games have borrowed from Dark Souls. Zelda. assassins creed, cuphead, hollow knight, just to name a few. Dark Souls arguably had the largest impact of any singular game since Call of Duty 4
Loving the game, but I honestly don't think there's much to learn from it. It just has that incredible level of bespoke content that the best open world games have, RDR2 and Witcher 3 mostly in terms of story, and BOTW mostly in terms of puzzles. Elden Ring is creating that magic mostly with the sheer amount of enemy types.
3:25 this doesn't make sense. In Elden Ring, it says to go get Great Runes, and Ofnir gives you a little run down on where they are, and the sight of Graces will point you in those directions.
Further, when you reveal the map, you can clearly see ruins or buildings, which all have pretty much the same stuff underneath with slight variations. If you want to be dragging out the map every minute, you can do that, but there's a reason you can set markers/waypoints.
It's also worth mentioning that there's probably a near zero chance that Jaffe will complete a single optional quest in the game. And maybe he won't care because he's just playing games to play the game, until he's over playing the game, but it's safe to say that he's not going to apply that philosophy to other games.
That's not touting game design, but touting not knowing (or ignoring) the game's design.
i think what is also cool is that players engage more with each other because of it. there are a lot of peope who share their knowledge and others are consuming and there is always someone who finds something new. and as you said i don‘t have to do what the map tells me i can choose it on my own what the next step should be.
one cool thing is the tarnished is silent. in forbidden west, the protagonist talks too much the moment you start a puzzle, aloy tells you every thing she doesnt have to be doom guy/chief but she should keep quiet a bit
@David Jaffe you CAPPIN' HARD Mr. God of War! The problem with Elden Ring is that it's a One n Done game and it has no interesting content at all to keep me engaged. Horizon Forbidden West is a game that I will go back to for years to come because there is so much interesting and unknown content to experience in the game. Every time I play Forbidden West, I have an all new experience and interaction I end up discovering while traversing the world. Elden Ring is so slow, daunting and downright boring. It makes me wanna slit my wrist and bash my brains in with a mallet! My god, Elden Ring is so boring and behind the times! They made games like this back in the late 80's. For some reason, these Elden Ring creators are stuck back in the days foreal. It's a downright shame and a travesty Jaffe. Get a clue kiddo. 💯👍❗
I honestly don't understand the reception to the game. People keep saying it's a triumph in game design. Why? It feels like Dark Souls with a horse in an open world that doesn't feel lived in. Quest design is spotty at best with some terrible pacing for others. Still plagued by the same issues FromSoftware games have had for a decade on the technical and gameplay side. They've literally become the Call of Duty of a genre they helped define. Wait a few years, pay 60$ for a reskin and new gimmick to hide that it feels the same as the last one. Truthfully, this encompasses most of the industry so why not buy the more polished repeat instead of the technically marred repeat?
I hope so Jaffe. Single player games have no future they said. We have to cut out content and sell it separately, cuz making games isn't profitable they said. We have to have an "in game shop", so we can milk you more. And all the bs we heard over the years. ER is spitting in their laying face.
The future of gaming is set, reality check: poor performance on every platform, same old bad controls, graphics from one and an half generation ago, gameplay loop kill die repeat, quests that you have to go to the internet to know what to do, copy past enemies and sounds from older games, leeeeet's gooooo. PS: Bloodborne is better in every aspect…
Even tho people co plain about the difficulty in from software games, that's the best part of the game because once you figure out the rhythm of the game on your own then that's why they become the best games to play
Wrong, fromsoft is the only company can get away with poor UX design and performance like it does. Any other company trying to emulate their style will get killed.
Sorry, Jaffe, but I think you're overstating the implications of Elden Ring's overall design choices for the industry as a whole. The chief design lesson from this game – which BOTW already hinted at – is to not predesignate markers on the map. That's literally it. Let the player find points of interest instead of making them a textual checklist on the map or the quest log. Most of everything else Elden Ring does is more particular to Soulsborne games – i.e. high difficulty bosses, grinding, elliptical quest design and narrative, lots of recondite lore, dialogue and item descriptions… I think some people are overstating how seminal this game should be for Sony or Bethesda or whoever. You need to disaggregate the tired elements of their open world formula that Elden Ring rejects from those elements that are simply a matter of stylistic or tonal distinction. To that end, perhaps Elden Ring could stand to learn a few things from other games too, although not to the extent it might teach some designers to stop signposting everything.
Let different devs approach game design according to their own distinct prerogatives. Some Elden Ring fans are busy weaponising this game against Horizon and Ghost of Tsushima and Spider-man, and, to be honest, a lot of the comparisons are just tribal and reductive without acknowledging that there are equally factors of taste at play – it just amounts to saying "I prefer this game so all games should be like this." Everything turns into a pissing contest these days, and there's no insight to be gleaned from zero sum equations on game X versus game Y.
I like that people are bringing up Morrowind as a comparison in the comments. Morrowind and Daggerfall are the cult classics of the Elder Scrolls series and people fell out of love with Bethesda style games around in the Skyrim-Fallout 4 era. The writing is on the wall. There's a balance between Elden Ring and Horizon that most people will be happy with.
No game is perfect. But elden ring is as perfect as it gets right now. Been a fromsoft lover since demons souls original but this is their best work so far and that says a lot. Its has taken dark souls 1s spot at my favourite game of all time.
We said the same things about Shadow of Mordors “Nemesis” system. “Nemesis” seems more innovative in an open-world than much of what I experienced in BOTW (whose compliments sound eerily similar to Elden Ring).
Good take Jaffe. You're absolutely right. Take away the amazing talent that went into every asset in Horizon and you have a pretty standard affair. Breath of the Wild showed us you can make a world where everything has a purpose. Elden is building off that open world design ethos. Those devs are salty cause they failed to evolve the genre. They played it safe and Elden curb stomped them. They won't be remembered a year from now.
I hope it does force future open world games to do better. The Sony and Ubisoft formula has grown very stale.
And dark sould has changed the industry. How many souls lite games are there now days. So…that dudes comment isn't valid imo.
Jaffe, it's funny to watch your channel, because at the same time you want to bring up these high IQ designer subjects to talk about, while you also try to appeal to the average angry simpleton gamer, like you want to be a Colin Moriarty. You try to juggle with these two audiences!
SPAM roll attack, SPAM roll attack, SPAM roll attack
YOU DIED
(Genius?!?!)
The Skyrim VR map is like this, but in 3D.
Not for my money, a map marker is totally fine and the developers are putting in "options" to turn it off.
As for losing yourself… it is an illusion, From just didn't do any work. They don't do much story, no breadcrumbs, no systems beyond combat. It is cool they finally added jumping and a mount. They only influence I can see would be that when you go to a spot on the map (whether it is marked or not), there is something unique there. The open world design still needs to be a go here… do this though. If not you aren't immersed you are just wandering.
Love ya Jaffe
Many players saying saying we cant play 30 fps anymore, but sudently Suck in 30 and 60 barely but hey we love a game who looks Old gen and Frames Suck but ok, people can change his mind so easily, and sure some people like to spend hour looking a map with cero sing.
Best gaming commentator on youtube. Love it when I see a new video on my feed from Jaffe!
>I feel that dark souls hasn’t changed games
Where has this person been? Tons of games have borrowed from Dark Souls. Zelda. assassins creed, cuphead, hollow knight, just to name a few. Dark Souls arguably had the largest impact of any singular game since Call of Duty 4
Loving the game, but I honestly don't think there's much to learn from it. It just has that incredible level of bespoke content that the best open world games have, RDR2 and Witcher 3 mostly in terms of story, and BOTW mostly in terms of puzzles. Elden Ring is creating that magic mostly with the sheer amount of enemy types.
3:25 this doesn't make sense. In Elden Ring, it says to go get Great Runes, and Ofnir gives you a little run down on where they are, and the sight of Graces will point you in those directions.
Further, when you reveal the map, you can clearly see ruins or buildings, which all have pretty much the same stuff underneath with slight variations. If you want to be dragging out the map every minute, you can do that, but there's a reason you can set markers/waypoints.
It's also worth mentioning that there's probably a near zero chance that Jaffe will complete a single optional quest in the game. And maybe he won't care because he's just playing games to play the game, until he's over playing the game, but it's safe to say that he's not going to apply that philosophy to other games.
That's not touting game design, but touting not knowing (or ignoring) the game's design.
i think what is also cool is that players engage more with each other because of it. there are a lot of peope who share their knowledge and others are consuming and there is always someone who finds something new. and as you said i don‘t have to do what the map tells me i can choose it on my own what the next step should be.
Dark souls Bloodborne already did that and now we have 2 (3 if Elden Ring wins) Soulsborne GOTY/contender game
one cool thing is the tarnished is silent. in forbidden west, the protagonist talks too much
the moment you start a puzzle, aloy tells you every thing
she doesnt have to be doom guy/chief but she should keep quiet a bit
no disrespect but bend have a loot to learn from rdr2/Elden ring
hope their next game is better than days gone
Jaffe nailed it right here.
This video is spot on Jaffe! I love what you say here, this is what I'm here for!
@David Jaffe you CAPPIN' HARD Mr. God of War! The problem with Elden Ring is that it's a One n Done game and it has no interesting content at all to keep me engaged. Horizon Forbidden West is a game that I will go back to for years to come because there is so much interesting and unknown content to experience in the game. Every time I play Forbidden West, I have an all new experience and interaction I end up discovering while traversing the world. Elden Ring is so slow, daunting and downright boring. It makes me wanna slit my wrist and bash my brains in with a mallet! My god, Elden Ring is so boring and behind the times! They made games like this back in the late 80's. For some reason, these Elden Ring creators are stuck back in the days foreal. It's a downright shame and a travesty Jaffe. Get a clue kiddo. 💯👍❗
"Blabber mode on" got me good. I love this show 🤗🤣
I honestly don't understand the reception to the game. People keep saying it's a triumph in game design. Why? It feels like Dark Souls with a horse in an open world that doesn't feel lived in. Quest design is spotty at best with some terrible pacing for others. Still plagued by the same issues FromSoftware games have had for a decade on the technical and gameplay side. They've literally become the Call of Duty of a genre they helped define. Wait a few years, pay 60$ for a reskin and new gimmick to hide that it feels the same as the last one. Truthfully, this encompasses most of the industry so why not buy the more polished repeat instead of the technically marred repeat?
I hope so Jaffe. Single player games have no future they said. We have to cut out content and sell it separately, cuz making games isn't profitable they said.
We have to have an "in game shop", so we can milk you more. And all the bs we heard over the years.
ER is spitting in their laying face.
Whaatttt dude you spoiled the whole map i didn't even know that upper part existed
The future of gaming is set, reality check: poor performance on every platform, same old bad controls, graphics from one and an half generation ago, gameplay loop kill die repeat, quests that you have to go to the internet to know what to do, copy past enemies and sounds from older games, leeeeet's gooooo.
PS: Bloodborne is better in every aspect…
I completely disagree with in regards to horizon forbidden west
Even tho people co plain about the difficulty in from software games, that's the best part of the game because once you figure out the rhythm of the game on your own then that's why they become the best games to play
Wrong, fromsoft is the only company can get away with poor UX design and performance like it does. Any other company trying to emulate their style will get killed.
100000% hope Todd Howard plays it….
Sorry, Jaffe, but I think you're overstating the implications of Elden Ring's overall design choices for the industry as a whole. The chief design lesson from this game – which BOTW already hinted at – is to not predesignate markers on the map. That's literally it. Let the player find points of interest instead of making them a textual checklist on the map or the quest log. Most of everything else Elden Ring does is more particular to Soulsborne games – i.e. high difficulty bosses, grinding, elliptical quest design and narrative, lots of recondite lore, dialogue and item descriptions… I think some people are overstating how seminal this game should be for Sony or Bethesda or whoever. You need to disaggregate the tired elements of their open world formula that Elden Ring rejects from those elements that are simply a matter of stylistic or tonal distinction. To that end, perhaps Elden Ring could stand to learn a few things from other games too, although not to the extent it might teach some designers to stop signposting everything.
Let different devs approach game design according to their own distinct prerogatives. Some Elden Ring fans are busy weaponising this game against Horizon and Ghost of Tsushima and Spider-man, and, to be honest, a lot of the comparisons are just tribal and reductive without acknowledging that there are equally factors of taste at play – it just amounts to saying "I prefer this game so all games should be like this." Everything turns into a pissing contest these days, and there's no insight to be gleaned from zero sum equations on game X versus game Y.
Jaffe's simply WRONG!!" Who does this guy think he is? Just because he designed some games, he thinks he's some kind of hotshot.
Just f-cking with you knuckle head.
I like that people are bringing up Morrowind as a comparison in the comments. Morrowind and Daggerfall are the cult classics of the Elder Scrolls series and people fell out of love with Bethesda style games around in the Skyrim-Fallout 4 era. The writing is on the wall. There's a balance between Elden Ring and Horizon that most people will be happy with.
No game is perfect. But elden ring is as perfect as it gets right now. Been a fromsoft lover since demons souls original but this is their best work so far and that says a lot. Its has taken dark souls 1s spot at my favourite game of all time.
Rockstar are still the kings of open world games. Nothing will touch them. Not even elden ring will touch them
Wait! You just did a video slamming Elden Rings graphics, & now you slamming Horizon Zero Dawn 2 for being too polished! LMAO! #loveit
We said the same things about Shadow of Mordors “Nemesis” system. “Nemesis” seems more innovative in an open-world than much of what I experienced in BOTW (whose compliments sound eerily similar to Elden Ring).
Horizon fails because of the boring feminist protagonist.
4:17 to the right of the hole, about 2 o'clock. l see a penis pointing at the hole?
Jokes aside. Elden Ring is a masterpiece!
Uh this is copying ZELDA BOTW…
After this game , ubisoft is going to
Even have more difficult time getting away with how their games are going ….
Good take Jaffe. You're absolutely right. Take away the amazing talent that went into every asset in Horizon and you have a pretty standard affair. Breath of the Wild showed us you can make a world where everything has a purpose. Elden is building off that open world design ethos. Those devs are salty cause they failed to evolve the genre. They played it safe and Elden curb stomped them. They won't be remembered a year from now.