Why was Sauron so Powerful? (Even Among Maiar) – Middle-earth Explained

31 thoughts on “Why was Sauron so Powerful? (Even Among Maiar) – Middle-earth Explained”

1. Thanks to Andy for pointing out this error, at 3:38 I did mean to say "Valar" and not "Maiar", as I go on to list those that Gandalf (Olórin) served. My mistake!

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2. In "About the Maiar" in the Silmarillion the most important ones are mentioned. But not in any specific order of hierarchie or size. It is more mentioned where there strenght or talent is. So was Olorin specific mentioned as wisest of the Maiar, Eonwe as the one that was the most gifted with weapons. Only Sauron is specificly mentioned with terms as the largest and most powerfull among all the servant of Melkor together with the fact that many of the Ainur spirits had followed Melkor, attracted to power and false independency of Eru) and also dominating other Maiar spirits as he did with Saruman. The diversity of the Maiar is also interesting. So are the Balrog obviousily very powerfull but don't seem to have any intellectual capacity or leadership ambitions, Of the Istari only Gandalf is mentioned as one of the important Maiar in the Silmarillion, but in LOTR is mentioned that Saruman was in "Valinor size" bigger and therefore the leader. It could be that the message of Tolkien s that in the end Wishdom and Character are things that mather the most,. Small Hobbits that took up the biggest task and the Nobleness and wishdom of Gandalf that was unspoiled by evil, that in the end destoryed the all powerfull Sauron.

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3. It's a pity that you didn't mention Melian. She was probably the most powerful of all Maiar, and so powerful that she created a blessed realm in Beleriand itself

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4. I never felt he was that individually powerful , he lost to Lúthien , Huan and Gil-Galid and Elendil was almost matched by Finrod in magic. The Balrogs and Dragons where much more powerful in combat. He was powerful in crafting and deviousness

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5. As I understand, his power was great, but not exceeding many of the Maiar in the beginning.
   It is said that he Became a great and powerful sorcerer by the wars of the first age, by relentlessly following his craft.
   It was his Will to Rule; his complete belief that He should have dominion in Melkor's absence; to control and craft the Children into His vision, that was the strength he bore.
   For 7,000 years he worked without rest to be overlord of lesser beings and dominate them through manipulation or domination should they stand against him. That is the power of Will

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6. If Gandalf did show up in middle earth at 100% power I think he could easily dispatch of Sauron simply because Sauron put much of his power in the one ring.

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7. 2:23 Eonwe was "the chief of the Maiar of Valinor" not all Maiar. There is no any evidence to say he was above Sauron. Sauron was not a Maiar of Valinor! Rather Tolkien described him as "the Chief of the Captains and servants of Morgoth" in Silmarillion. It seems they were pretty equal to each other in authority and majesty. But we should keep in mind that Sauron is the Maia who cancelled/broke the power of Vala Ulmo within Tol-Sirion and later defied Manwe's lightning bolt in the second age.

   2:46 Sauron did not beg for mercy out of fear from Eonwe. He found and came to Eonwe and asked to be pardoned but when Eonwe said that he has no power to judge or forgive a fellow Maia, Sauron just left the place and it seems Eonwe couldn't do anything to 'prevent' him too lol.

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8. Who’s the most powerful, Sauron or Voldemort? I mean sauron only had one horcrux…

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9. Sauron has always been the best of both side good or evil
   As a Maia he was admirable,
   Under aule he was the best subcreative spirit,
   Under morgoth he was his most cruel servant,
   As a dark lord he was the greatest spirit in all middle even after he lost his ring.

   Sauron may be evil but damn he was a spirit of excellence. Still I admire is ability to bring creativity in what he does irrespective of his alignment.

   I think Tolkien would want us to know that despite him being evil he is still one of Eru's best and most creative thought.

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10. Sauron has always been the best of both side good or evil
    As a Maia he was admirable,
    Under aule he was the best subcreative spirit,
    Under morgoth he was his most cruel servant,
    As a dark lord he was the greatest spirit in all middle even after he lost his ring.

    Sauron may be evil but damn he was a spirit of excellence. Still I admire is ability to bring creativity in what he does irrespective of his alignment.

    I think Tolkien would want us to know that despite him being evil he is still one of Eru's best and most creative thought.

    Reply

11. Sauron has always been the best of both side good or evil
    As a Maia he was admirable,
    Under aule he was the best subcreative spirit,
    Under morgoth he was his most cruel servant,
    As a dark lord he was the greatest spirit in all middle even after he lost his ring.

    Sauron may be evil but damn he was a spirit of excellence. Still I admire is ability to bring creativity in what he does irrespective of his alignment.

    I think Tolkien would want us to know that despite him being evil he is still one of Eru's best and most creative thought.

    Reply

12. Sauron has always been the best of both side good or evil
    As a Maia he was admirable,
    Under aule he was the best subcreative spirit,
    Under morgoth he was his most cruel servant,
    As a dark lord he was the greatest spirit in all middle even after he lost his ring.

    Sauron may be evil but damn he was a spirit of excellence. Still I admire is ability to bring creativity in what he does irrespective of his alignment.

    I think Tolkien would want us to know that despite him being evil he is still one of Eru's best and most creative thought.

    Reply

13. I think Sauron is really powerful even among the Maiar too, but even though he learned from two masters, was gifted with skill, had great prowess in sorcery, had an influence upon the Children of Iluvatar that is arguably greater than any other being's, and was intelligent/guileful, why are other Maiar with lesser feats greater than him? I can straightway think of Arien, Melian, Osse, and Uinen who are stronger than him. Maybe it has to do with the hierarchy of the Ainur, but idk. And btw a video idea: What if Osse wasn't saved from the corruption of Melko by Uinen and Aule?

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14. Very fascinating however you speak so rapidly that what you are offering cant be absorbed for thought.
    Too bad. But you have lots of listeners. Thats good.

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15. Say what you like about Amazon's The Fanfictions of Power, I'm sure it was the Farce That Launched a Thousand Rereads. But there's a problem. I'm returning to Tolkien as a hard-as-diamonds skeptic with a well-developed (occasionally overactive perhaps) BS detector. And wouldn't you know it, it light of RoP's misguided construction of a Sauron Mystery Box, it's the canonical Sauron story, above all, that causes that BS detector to scream at me so loud I can't shut it off. The arbitrariness and excessive convenience of Sauron's relative power scaling is one MAJOR problem.
    At Dol Guldur in the Third Age it takes the entire White Council, including two Istari and all three wielders of the Three, to defeat a Sauron who has only a fraction of his ancient power; not yet being as strong as he would become and more importantly lacking the Ring. And then Sauron "feigned to flee"….Um, Professor T? If he had been defeated, he would be fleeing in earnest.
    But in the First Age a fully-powered Sauron is defeated by a ….dog. A very special dog I know, with a special virtue of being immune to "enchantments". Tolkien analogized magic to machines: inserting a measure of one's own power into the substance of the world and using the rules that govern this substance in a way that results in a self-sustaining feedback loop and obviates excessive drain on the magic-user's own substance/strength. (e.g the Girdle of Melian). And Huan has a special virtue of being immune to this.
    But Sauron's raw innate power, I am sorry, should have been orders of magnitude greater than Huan's. He's one of the three or four most powerful Maiar. One of those Maiar "little less great" than the Valar themselves. The fight at the bridge is a prime example of this-makes-no-sense-but-I-want-to-tell-the-story-that-I-want-to-tell.
    Don't take this the wrong way; I love old JRR and this world to pieces and always will; it's still the standard I measure by, nearly four decades after first reading LOTR. All fantasy -all fiction arguably, no matter how good – contains those moments when the Plot takes precedence over character and worldbuilding consistency. (The problem with The Rings of Power? It delivers nothing in return for its lapses into nonsense. Lapses? It IS a lapse)

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16. I think the virtues given to him by Eru play a big role in all of this too. Programming a powerful being with "a love for order and perfection" is honestly a recipe for disaster, especially if you're going to send that being down into a world full of people with free will. He was a perfectionist surrounded by chaos. Of course he would use every drop of his power to change it to his liking.

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17. A good theory video would be "Gandalf vs Sauron". If I remember correctly, they never fought (correct me if wrong, I don't know the lore that much), so it's interesting to think What would happen, like the video of Morgoth and the other Valar you did. Also, the videos are great, and your work is outstanding.

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18. Have you done any collabs with Nerd of the Rings? You guys are my Tolkien go-to-guys.

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19. This was a great one. Ty

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20. Some people think Sauron in his peak was more powerful than Morgoth just before his fall. That's pretty amazing. But the way I look at it, it was unavoidable. Sauron put all his effort in becoming stronger, using the ring on himself, while Morgoth put all his attention in gaining control over the earth, spreading his power in the process.

    EDIT: The ring did actually gave Sauron much more power. You need to understand that "will" in Tolkien's legendary, is power. That's "elven magic". By using the ring, Sauron basically gained control over the will of others, added their will to his, and everything they were, was added to himself. Humans like the witch king of Angmar, for example, and most of the will of the dwarven kings, and even gained partial control over Galadriel, and the other great elves with rings, had they not remove the rings from their fingers.

    The one ring is NOT a horcrux.

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21. I mean… Sauron also “inspired” a lot of orcs and men into overcoming their inhibitions and fight for him.

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22. I believe the bulk of his power comes from what he was willing to sacrifice.

    As you mention, other Maiar like Eonwe were above him even at the HEIGHT of his divine power. His might in the LOTR is less than before. However, he is much more powerful now than others that remain.

    For instance he “poured his power and malice” into the ring. Well ok…should be weaker then right? The answer is complicated.

    Overall he IS weaker. He pours out his spiritual energy into a physical item. Let’s say he was at ~80% of his potential power (lost some of his divine gift moving away from EI and doing battle/expending energy) going into his Annatar disguise. Now maybe he pours in half or maybe he pours in most. At BEST he will end up BELOW his full potential. BUT!!! His forging of the ring allows him to draw out MORE of his potential than before. If before he had 80% potential but could only use 20% at one time in Arda then even if he put half of his power in (and lost some in the process) 80->30% PP & output 20->30% even though he lost much he can do more with what remains. The ring which holds maybe 30-40% of the potential he put into it makes his output that much greater than before even if he lost some along the way. And if nothing else he’s now bound to arda with a “horcrux” so even if someone more powerful came along he’s used the rules to his advantage to stay in the game.

    It’s like trading an easily held bowl for a bucket. Sure you may have spilled a little but now you don’t have to go back to the source and the quantities you can bring forth are more than before. “Sure you Lose some… but if you couldn’t access those parts as you wished then what’s the point?!”

    4 Reasons why I suspect this is the case:
    1) Taken straight from Milton’s “Paradise Lost”. Angels have the upper hand right away when confronting Lucifer. Day 2 Satan expends his energy into building weapons. Focusing the energy from powers that could be anything into a specialized machine he starts to take the lead. But what’s used up can never be replaced. Day 3 comes and they’re all defeated.

    2) Aule. When the Valar created the dwarves he had to put his own energy and focus on them to keep them going. After Eru approved they got their energy direct from the source. If Aule really wanted to keep them moving he could have siphoned off a bit of his energy into each so he could go about his day but without connection to the source, the dwarves and Aule would be limited by the portions Aule spent to keep the dwarves going.

    3) Gandalf. His power is limited and he doesn’t get more power upon returning he’s just allowed to show more of what he’s always been capable of. That said there is a cap and limit. He’s a Maia but he struggles against the witch king (who isn’t bound but such rules) he should be much more powerful but there are certain rules and to break those rules in order to gain power you must suffer the consequences (just like our last example)

    4) Saruman. He was willing to divide up his white (a light that can become ANY color) into a multi-colored robe (limited to what he thinks). A more literal example though is how his limited form could be overcome by utilizing rings. He was willing to give up all his power to overcome the limitations of the istari. When wormtongue kills him, The source of all power (which he himself broke away from) no longer accepts him. Had he not have had those limits in place and directly walked away he might have been able to do as Sauron did: reform (albeit w/a handicap). This shows you lose something the more you try to pull out and put into Arda. Being completely cutoff and turned away from his duty, all Saruman’s spirit can do is be blown away to nothing

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23. Imperial power and the right of kings vs those who would want to replace them through the same type of divine power.

    This is what Tolkien got wrong.

    No ordinary people make it.

    Only those of birth right and imperial power.

    A product of his time I guess.

    As much I loved these stories as a child, as I’m now an adult, I don’t find much value in them.

    Time grow up.

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24. So I always figured that while the wizards where handicapped at like 10% of there power unless they met something of equal or greater strength, Sauron wasnt and was playing at 100% the whole time. And the ring amplified his power so at least in middle earth he was almost unstoppable

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25. because if he wasn't, then it wouldn't be a good story of struggle and loss before bittersweet victory.

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26. Were they angels?

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27. Think sauron if not holding the ring was weaker because he infused a great portion of his power into the ring.

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28. Best thing about Sauron: the fan art is insanely good!

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29. If you put Sauron and Eonwe in some kind of arena where only one can leave doors alive, Eonwe wins.
    Eonwe is master in combat.
    But if you put Sauron on one end of middle earth and Eonwe on the other. And there can be years till they find each other, i believe Sauron will destroy Eonwe. Sauron would hide from Eonwes sight. He would use his influence ower mortal beings and if Eonwe finds allies, Sauron would split them. Sauron would place his spies and servants in every corner of Middle earth and use his lies to make Eonwes reputation bad or suspicious.
    Sauron could make any land under Eonwes feet such uncomfortable place till moment he chooses to fight him and dominate him.
    Thats how i imagine differences between theese two powerfull spirits.

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30. Sauron was able to get God to kill the greatest nation in token world that goes beyond the rings of power

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31. It's a shame that all depictions of Sauron nowadays are from the films. Especially as the books don't really let us know what he looks like. Especially in the LOTR, where he's an incorporeal, sinister, evil, malevolent presence, who is never described much at all, directly, let alone physically. The fact that he was unknown, physically, makes him more dark and more sinister. 🙂

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