Great video. Thanks. You should do a video on the halfway compromise – the Camelback. Fireman at the back, engineer in a cab that straddled the boiler.
The actual Description or Title is Engineer, for consist’s that being are pulled by Engine’s usually Heavy Rail and the Title or Description Motorman, for consist’s using electric motor’s such public transit LRT’s. Which is usually light rail from which we get Light Rail Transit or, of course. LRT. So. No. Not driver. Thank you. Almost everyday I’ll have someone calling us conductor’s. That of course, is a completely different occupation. Pretty good video. Thanks.
Nice video. Were there any attempts to use periscopes or other optical devices to improve forward visibility in the standard rear cab configuration? Thanks.
Forney Locomotives operated in both directions. Southbound they ran boiler first, but then going north, they went tender first. After all, there is no place to turn a locomotive around on a New York Elevated line. A train would come in on track 1. Its locomotive was trapped at the wrong end of the train. The locomotive that was on track 2 then moved to the front of the consist, to pull the train back north from there.The next train would come in on track 2. That locomotive would be trapped, but the locomotive left on track 1 was now free to lead this train off of track 2. At the north end the yards and maintenance facilities were located. The locomotive would be cleaned up, It would get a new tank full of water, and some more fuel for the tender. These lines ran perhaps 15 or 20 trains per hour. Hey! This is the BIG CITY you know. After electrification many of these Forneys found their way to Alaska of all places. Many remained in New York City. While the could not bull trains in the subway tunnels they were used in the construction of the subways before they were electrified. (There were no diesels back in those days.) Since subways were constructed by cut and cover, the smoke was no problem for the construction. broadwaylion.com
But, out of the Cab-forward steamers, SP did have the best cab-forwards due to it being an oil burners. The AC-9 was the only non-cab-forward steamer which the SP Crew dubbed it the Reverse Cab-forward. Fuel oil are directly fed to the firebox not to the boiler. The Living Legend (UP 844) and 4014 Big Boy and most of the steamers in the US running on Excursions / tourist attractions are oil fired (Except for C&T and D&SNG) to prevent trackside fires. Oil leakage are rare on oil fired steamers, mainly good maintenance and oil is thicker than water.
The cab forward logistics trucks the Russians are using in Ukraine are not popular with the drivers regardless of the great visibility, for obvious reasons.
Surprised you didn't mention Bulleid's Southern Railway "Leader Class" which was a failure because the newly-formed British Railways was LMS-orientated. 5 were under construction though only the first was finished. A few more weeks of development could have led to working locos.
The Cavan and Leitrim Railway in Ireland used 4-4-0 T locomotives, but because part of the route ran as a street tramway, they were required by law to have the driver at the front where he had the best view of traffic. They tried running cab-forward as 0-4-4, but it was too hard on the track, so they ended up putting a second set of controls in a little cabin on the pilot deck at the smokebox end. I would love to see a picture of one of those. Consider also the Great Western Railway railmotor/autocar sets, which had the second set of controls at the far end of the passenger car. (There is one in service at Didcot.) I think there was some sort of signal bell between the driver's end and the fireman's end.
3:14 That was my idea that it should be ideal. Driver in the front, fireman in the back. Communication basically through some signs, and if talking necessary, through some pipe maybe. Without a catwalk on the side of the engine, which would connect the two cabin it would be not as useful because of the mentioned reasons.
I have so many great memories from my childhood of engine 4294, as I and my family would regularly visit the museum, and it's one of the bases to my interests in trains. One of the main reasons it played such an important role though, was because you are allowed to go into the cab, and as a child I would go into it and play, unfortunately in a more recent visit they had to close it off due to covid. But I always wondered why it was like that. I've always sort of assumed that it had something to do with giving better visibility, but I knew that there had to be some sort of more advanced reason for it.
The italian "cab-forward" FS 670 was nicknamed Mucca (cow) not only for the peculiar bulky shape, but also because the tender with his little cab had roughly the same shape only smaller, so the two together resembled a Cow with her calf (Mucca con vitello)! As i know one of the reason of the experiment was to use in the mountain lines with many tunnel where, until electrification, there were so many cases of staff poisoning due to smoke. But in the end they weren't used for that, maybe due to the not great power and the inability to understand problems perceiving noises and smells. Some were later modified with superheater and lived until the end of the '30 in north Italy Po valley.
Warning: mysqli_query(): (HY000/3): Error writing file '/tmp/MYfd=1230' (OS errno 28 - No space left on device) in /home/ubuntu/tipsi/public/wp-includes/class-wpdb.php on line 2357
That's how other countries work. If America comes up with something that actually works others think they can do it better than fail.
The engineers couldn't figure out weather they were coming or going 😊
no problem Electric locomotives have a cab on each end….!
I was going to suggest burning oil. By the end of the steam era most were oil burners anyway.
This video raises a question I feel kinda stupid about for not asking it myself before, and then answers it. Thanks.
What if they just reversed the engine tender first, and put the cab at the end of the tender, using steel wires to connect the levers?
Great video. Thanks.
You should do a video on the halfway compromise – the Camelback. Fireman at the back, engineer in a cab that straddled the boiler.
The actual Description or Title is Engineer, for consist’s that being are pulled by Engine’s usually Heavy Rail and the Title or Description Motorman, for consist’s using electric motor’s such public transit LRT’s.
Which is usually light rail from which we get Light Rail Transit or, of course. LRT.
So. No. Not driver.
Thank you.
Almost everyday I’ll have someone calling us conductor’s.
That of course, is a completely different occupation.
Pretty good video.
Thanks.
Nice video. Were there any attempts to use periscopes or other optical devices to improve forward visibility in the standard rear cab configuration? Thanks.
1:53 this engine looks half diesel-electric, half steam locomotive
3:15 also isnt this just a steam-powered tram engine?
Forney Locomotives operated in both directions. Southbound they ran boiler first, but then going north, they went tender first. After all, there is no place to turn a locomotive around on a New York Elevated line. A train would come in on track 1. Its locomotive was trapped at the wrong end of the train. The locomotive that was on track 2 then moved to the front of the consist, to pull the train back north from there.The next train would come in on track 2. That locomotive would be trapped, but the locomotive left on track 1 was now free to lead this train off of track 2. At the north end the yards and maintenance facilities were located. The locomotive would be cleaned up, It would get a new tank full of water, and some more fuel for the tender. These lines ran perhaps 15 or 20 trains per hour. Hey! This is the BIG CITY you know. After electrification many of these Forneys found their way to Alaska of all places. Many remained in New York City. While the could not bull trains in the subway tunnels they were used in the construction of the subways before they were electrified. (There were no diesels back in those days.) Since subways were constructed by cut and cover, the smoke was no problem for the construction.
broadwaylion.com
But, out of the Cab-forward steamers, SP did have the best cab-forwards due to it being an oil burners. The AC-9 was the only non-cab-forward steamer which the SP Crew dubbed it the Reverse Cab-forward. Fuel oil are directly fed to the firebox not to the boiler. The Living Legend (UP 844) and 4014 Big Boy and most of the steamers in the US running on Excursions / tourist attractions are oil fired (Except for C&T and D&SNG) to prevent trackside fires. Oil leakage are rare on oil fired steamers, mainly good maintenance and oil is thicker than water.
SP cab-forward steam locomotives must be rebuilt and resurrected at all costs. Cheers!
As a driver, having the entire weight of the train and all the freight cars behind the forward cab would be a scary prospect.
I love theese videos man. Keep making them they are so good
The cab forward logistics trucks the Russians are using in Ukraine are not popular with the drivers regardless of the great visibility, for obvious reasons.
Surprised you didn't mention Bulleid's Southern Railway "Leader Class" which was a failure because the newly-formed British Railways was LMS-orientated. 5 were under construction though only the first was finished. A few more weeks of development could have led to working locos.
The Cavan and Leitrim Railway in Ireland used 4-4-0 T locomotives, but because part of the route ran as a street tramway, they were required by law to have the driver at the front where he had the best view of traffic. They tried running cab-forward as 0-4-4, but it was too hard on the track, so they ended up putting a second set of controls in a little cabin on the pilot deck at the smokebox end. I would love to see a picture of one of those. Consider also the Great Western Railway railmotor/autocar sets, which had the second set of controls at the far end of the passenger car. (There is one in service at Didcot.) I think there was some sort of signal bell between the driver's end and the fireman's end.
Why not just do low tender at the front? Eliminates the tender issue instantly and you can still have perfect visibility…
3:14 That was my idea that it should be ideal. Driver in the front, fireman in the back. Communication basically through some signs, and if talking necessary, through some pipe maybe. Without a catwalk on the side of the engine, which would connect the two cabin it would be not as useful because of the mentioned reasons.
Do you use left & right turn signals when going around a curve? What about a steering wheel, is there one? Brake/backup lights?
I have so many great memories from my childhood of engine 4294, as I and my family would regularly visit the museum, and it's one of the bases to my interests in trains. One of the main reasons it played such an important role though, was because you are allowed to go into the cab, and as a child I would go into it and play, unfortunately in a more recent visit they had to close it off due to covid. But I always wondered why it was like that. I've always sort of assumed that it had something to do with giving better visibility, but I knew that there had to be some sort of more advanced reason for it.
The italian "cab-forward" FS 670 was nicknamed Mucca (cow) not only for the peculiar bulky shape, but also because the tender with his little cab had roughly the same shape only smaller, so the two together resembled a Cow with her calf (Mucca con vitello)!
As i know one of the reason of the experiment was to use in the mountain lines with many tunnel where, until electrification, there were so many cases of staff poisoning due to smoke. But in the end they weren't used for that, maybe due to the not great power and the inability to understand problems perceiving noises and smells. Some were later modified with superheater and lived until the end of the '30 in north Italy Po valley.
i like trains
I’ve got a fix. Mirrors.
Do turbine steam locomotives like the penny s2! in really interested in experimental engines 😀
6:07 I have seen this engine.