Marco Pantani, Eddy Merckx, Lance Armstrong, Bjarne Riis… each was guilty of doping in their career but have left very different legacies. How can it be that Pantani is treated like a god while Lance is demonised? Dan and Si discuss what makes one drugs cheat a hero and another a villain, plus Cycling Shorts, Hack/Bodge and more on this week’s GCN Show!
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00:00 Intro
00:53 This Week in Cycling
03:35 Doping: Hero or Villain?
11:49 Cycling Shorts
18:32 Hack/Bodge
23:11 Caption Competition
25:34 Comments of the Week
28:53 Coming up on GCN
34:18 Orbea Competition Winner
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How do you view riders who have been caught doping? 🤔
on the Jumbo sue saga – jokingly they could ride on the Left of the peloton rather than the Right (as it's happened on the right both times).
More seriously – then the public shaming does seem to be significant – and certainly the symbolic €1 fine etc.
But – I'm guessing that like so many things it will take something horrific to change things.
Can you get Adam Hansen on the show to talk about the Riders association
Dopers stole from their fellow riders, for the fans, they just lied to you.
Is very simple: doper + being a piece of s@#t doesn't make you hated doper – being a piece of s@#t you can still be loved.
To start, cheaters don't win, they are not following the guidelines of what is agreed on as permitted in a competition and so are not "winning".
I enjoy what we can learn from humans striving to excel.
Their training, nutrition, and technology that we all can use in our daily lives to better enjoy our activities is the part we can all relate to.
The "gangster" cheaters do such harm to any sport that no matter who they are, their illegal wins should be wiped from the books except as a sidenote as to why.
The real crime is done to the riders that rode a race clean but were robbed of their victory, fans that thought what they were seeing was real.
Keeping sports a level playing field simply makes it more real for competitors and viewers alike.
people dope to race fucking zwift events….amateurs races are full of dope users. people that should be practicing a sport for fun are taking drugs to run the weekend races. lets be real here. cycling has a doping culture, from morphine alcohol and cocaine to EPO and other shit.
The PTO US Open and USAT Age Group Nationals were fantastic last weekend! It was great to have my city host the USAT Age Groups again and even better to experience the PTO US Open! Excellent event and amazing weather!
I'm no expert in this but I think it's about how much you took the p|ss. Lance won 7 tours while doping. Others won the odd race or two or just remained as rouleurs. Look at Hincapie. He doped but most fans aren't that bothered because he was just a domestique. The big question, as Merckx said, is why does everyone pick on cycling? There's lots of doping going on in other sports but nobody is that interested. Why is that? And at least in cycling, you've got a good excuse to dope. It is the ultimate endurance sport. You need something to help you.
At the time I remarked on this, but it is rarely mentioned – in the Armstrong era AMGEN sponsored the Tour of California and other US races – they are one of the biggest producers of EPO!! It was staring us in the face all the time!!
Lance Armstrong isn't a villain because he doped; the whole Peloton was doped back then. Lance was a villain because he destroyed the lives anyone who violated Omerta or were otherwise disloyal to him.
you cannot compare medical cheating and mechanical cheating. Mechanical cheating such as cancellara, armstrong froome or contador or van aert in CX cannot compare to pantani virenque or valverde and others. There is one thing important medical cheating do not give opportunity to regular cyclist to be a super pro. Those cyclist are even without doping great champs and will be still great champs
I pretty much give a pass to any doping that happened before 2007. The year after Floyd Landis got busted. When his tour got stripped that should have put everyone on notice that the era of anything goes has come to an end. But, up until around 2005 or so your odds of winning were low without doping. Furthermore so many of the team's resources were used in that direction via their team doctors that all other aspects of the training and nutrition were given short shrift. So even very talented riders who would have very good shots at winning races weren't really "part of the team" or – at the very least – taken seriously as bona-fide options if they didn't dope. I'm sure you had plenty of mid-peleton riders and a few like Chris Horner who were mostly super domestiques that weren't under that same pressure. All of this is speculation based on what riders have said about their time as pros. I don't know it. But, I find it very plausible that you were expected to cheat if you seriously wanted to win.
As to the mention of Ragbrai in the Cycling Shorts segment, I completed the entire route this year. It was a lot of fun, and I enjoyed meeting riders from all over the US and several other countries. It was much hotter and more humid than any riding I have ever done, and the high temps and poor sleep in the tent at night made it hard to recover overnight. I cannot fathom how people could drink and party and attend the concerts at night. I only had energy left to find a shower, get some food, and locate somewhere shady to rest until the sun went down. A highlight for me was combining day 6 and 7 for an epic single day effort, and getting caught in the tornado warning just a few miles from where my car was parked. After taking shelter in a Subway restaurant bathroom, I eventually secured a ride to the parking garage with a family who happened to pull over to check the weather before proceeding. They brought me to my car, refused to take any payment, and even gave me a jar of canned green beans. "Iowa nice" is real.
I'm really wondering (but I don't expect you to answer) if you guys really believe everything that's happeniing in the major races is on the up-and-up.
I mean, you see the numbers as well. You kinda mock / kinda don't mock Pantani but you don't have the guts to say anything about the current state of affairs and the current riders.
I've been watching and enjoying this sport for a few decades now, and I see a familiar pattern in journalists reporting: "We don't know anything. We just go by what we see and hear from what riders tell us. It surely isn't our fault."
A true journalist might want to inverstigate instead of just throwing out video's with a clickbaity titles.
That's just my two cents though.
Black and white. Pantani and Merckx and their rest should get the same treatment as Armstrong. Every pedal stroke should be stricken from the books. Everything else is favoritism and unsportsmanlike PR BS. I hate that some clear cheaters curried public favor and escaped fair punishment. People of this generation shouldn't even know Armstrong, Pantani and Merckx's names. Same bunch of thugs
Cognitive dissonance
9:52
That’s pretty much everybody in strength sports btw
I can not condone the concept of cheating by doping yo gain an advantage but the reality is that it appears all the top riders of the Pantani/Armstrong era were involved in the process. Obviously the teams knew about it as did the UCI. However they were all making money so no one wanted to upset the apple cart. So the riders were responding to the environment created buy the UCI and the teams. I’m sure there were some looking at the UCI but you don’t hear much about it. The UCI was responsible for maintaining the honesty of cycling and they dropped the ball.
David Millar for example
I think we should have 2 Tour de France races a clean one and a anything goes one then see which is the more entertaining