Let’s do a complete tier list of Warhammer 40K armies, and talk through what they bring to the table currently in game…
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0:00 Intro
1:48 Tier 6
2:06 Drukhari
4:01 Adeptus Custodes
5:56 Imperial Knights
8:07 Tier 5
8:30 Deathwatch
10:31 Grey Knights
12:04 Astra Militarum
14:33 Blood Angels
16:45 Tier 4
17:25 Dark Angels
19:56 Space Marines
23:04 Adeptus Mechanicus
26:08 Tyranids
28:30 Chaos Daemons
30:22 Tier 3
30:46 Chaos Knights
33:18 T’au Empire
35:27 Genestealer Cults
37:45 Thousand Sons
40:06 Adepta Sororitas
42:15 Space Wolves
44:20 Death Guard
46:17 Tier 2
46:36 Necrons
49:14 World Eaters
51:43 Leagues of Votann
53:58 Orks
56:10 Black Templars
58:35 Tier 1
58:52 Chaos Space Marines
1:01:39 Aeldari
1:05:22 Outro
source
Shout out to guard being tier 5 and 8th most played lmao.
How can Fenrisian wolves score?😮
I really wish Knights got their Bondsman abilities back some of the Cerastus Knights almost feel like they're balanced around the idea that they also get the ability
You mention the game is in a good shape but I'd say the opposite. The game is in a horrible state. 10th is horribly balanced. Massive points drops don't indicate balance. I don't want to be be bringing a horde for non horde armies. Stupid rules like devestating wounds are still a rampant issue across so many models. Infantry with massive amounts of shots / hits shouldn't be able to take down things such as knights with dev wounds.
Removing overwatch from titanic models is also a piss poor bandaid to stupid rules that GW themselves didn't play test enough.
The removal of points and flexibility for units has been a net negative for the game as a whole.
I could go on for paragraphs about the myriad of issues and glaring issues I've seen from the most casual games to the most cutthroat comp games I've played.
Wonder if they’ll bring back the old bondsman ability for Knights after they’ve been dumpstered.
Blood Angels suffering from the combo of 1) their chapter detachment being really bad, and 2) BA players fielding their chapter detachment far more often than, say, SW or DA do.
My brother plays Nids and boy do I feel bad for him. Rn it's almost as if the entire codex is being held hostage by their, let's be honest … bullshit, secondary scoring and a few undercosted/overtuned units (Neurolictor and most Vanguard units in general). At least there's some hope that most of it can be fixed with some point changes (Tyrannofex comes to mind). If those units aren't what you enjoy about the faction it's a real struggle right now to stay competitive. Unending Swarm can certainly do well in a lot of matchups, but it's not what a lot of people like about Nids and also has some rather hefty barriers to entry (number of models needed, difficulty of transport, painting, etc.).
I'm just not entirely sure what they can do about the secondary scoring. Even if Biovores cost double the points, they'd still be some of the best secondary scoring in the game and near on mandatory in most lists. Tbh the best/simplest solution I could see is removing the ability for OC 0 units to score objectives (which would also make battleshock more impactful to some extent). It's pretty dumb in near on every case where this is efficient to do and makes very little sense (Since OC 0 units are rarely the most … tactically minded … units lorewise).
Also for the love of god … do smth about Crusher Stampede (And to a lesser extent Assimilation Swarm). It's so poorly written and thought out, it feels like it was written separately from the codex. You can do a pure monster list and change detachment to Invasion Fleet or Synaptic Nexus and just BE better in near on every way. If even a heavy skew list using that detachment's intended units is better in another detachment, you know they f****d up. Assimilation Swarm can at least be somewhat improved by giving the Harvester to more units such as the Norn Emissary.
PS: While I do think Unending Swarm is generally a good detachment, it has some of the worst enhancements in the entire game. It seems they didn't realize the only unit that can join an endless multitude unit is the Winged Prime and he can only join Gargoyles. Enjoy your useless melee enhancements on those! IMO all the enhancements should be auras to facilitate how Tyranids buff their chaff. They don't use "Leaders" (in the rules context), but rather Aura Monsters/Leaders to buff units around them.
Love my blood angels, I’ll play them through thick and thin, but I reckon they won’t really be winnable competitively without gladius or firestorm until the codex drops in the distant future. The character attachment update helped but the the sanguinary priest, mephiston, and corbulo are all just kind of missing some key attachments that not only make sense for them to go with, but are frustrating to not have since it really just boils down to assault intercessors or vanvets.
Sanguinary guard would be great if they had an extra wound and an invuln save, or hell maybe even make their abilities not exclusive to melee. They’re the cream of the crop when it comes to the blood angels, literally THE best warriors they’ve got clad in irreplaceable artificer armor, but they die way too easily for how they’re costed. T4 and 2W feels way too squishy for over 30 ppm. Not saying they need every possible buff imaginable but if the cost is gonna be heavy they need to stay alive on the board.
Also Dante should get a revive ability. He’s the one guy we’ve got that keeps dying or getting slammed to the brink of death and just gets a visit from dad in his dreams and hobbles back up to keep going. Or a CP generation lol, I feel like everybody I play against has some kind of command point regeneration ability, and the closes I can get is using a stratagem on my infiltrators to gain a point back 😂
Again, not saying I want all the buffs in the world, but just spitballing some ideas. Great vid as always
My mighty World Eaters kill, maim and burn across the battlefield still which means it’s a good time to be alive!
POINTS. DONT. COMPENSATE. FOR. BAD. RULES.
I wish GW got this. 😔 What i mean is it isn't a satisfying or intelligent solution, not that it won't work.
Custodes are getting the early CSM 9th ed treatment.
Yes, custodes players, that's how we felt.
I've just flat stopped using my Drukhari.
Had enough of getting absolutely mudered by the second turn.
mmm thx for put daemons in better tier but revise your Daemons stats xD, Right now we are in 43% and because ppl dont play Daemons then cant get worsts stats xD
As a black templar player I can confirm the ironstorm is really good for us I nearly tabled an eldar army in turn one using it
Really wish death guard were harder to kill. I wouldn’t mind if their points went up 10 – 15% for army wide transhuman to make them actually feel tough
For Chaos Knighs I have some ideas
1. Change the main rule so that from T1 you get
A. A -1 leadership aura that becomes -2 if there is a big knight around
B. The pterrorshades strat becomes an abillity and is triggered on a failed BS test within said aura
2. The current second part of the rule(-1 to hit/+1 to wound) becomes a strat that you put on a unit that has failed BS
3. The abominant goes back to 390pts
4. The descecrator needs some changes. Definately needs a pts drop but also its rule is shit as it is super situational, I'd swap it out for the gladiator lancer rule of reroll 1 hit, 1 wound and 1 damage roll
This is a boost to the army but I dont think its that big, mainly fixes internal balance and that god awful 3rd turn rule that never matters, swaps it out for a decent damage survivability combo that is still not as good as the IK 6+++
I think imperial knights have always been poorly balanced. I dont want superheavies should not be top tier again. I want wh40knto be about armies. Preferably balanced armies. I think they should be bad, but great to include 1. I dont want 4 wraithknights or 4-5 imperial knights to dominate again. It removes almost all strategies and playing it well is extremely easy compared to leading an army of 20 various squads/vehicles. It also skews balance in general to only stack one unit type.
Keep pure imperial knighta bad in my opinion. Perhaps nerf them a little more.
I have no idea why they would touch anything with win rate within 45 and 55 percent. The rest should be fixed but that is the realistic sweet spot. They should focus on internal balance now.
Still don't understand why the dark park works when they fail the leadership check…
For any Admech players, have you tried kataphron destroyers with 3 heavy grav cannons? Codex allows this and you get 3 guns with anti vehicle 2+. Sure they hit on 4’s but anything after that is basically damage
I refuse to believe knights are that weak. I play them casually pretty often and they terrorize casual games, i have like a 85% winrate. Maybe just based off tournament win rates when everyone brings 90% anti armour or something. Damn that is a real gap vs causal and tournament though.
Admech should be an elite army, im not against bs4 but give us the best weapons of the imperium, its ours! sorry for the rant but its sad to see that the kataphrones are the only one to do serious damage
I disagree on scarabs. They are unplayable at their price point. It’s obscene how expensive they are compared to any other army’s terminator chassis.
TSons currently suffer from the “you can only play one way” more than most armies, so I’m really hoping (but not expecting) there to be some changes to help make any list but “rubric + characters only” viable. I’d love to see some sort of option for vehicles to contribute to cabal (or maybe just say “troops in the vehicle can generate cabal” as RAW they don’t)
Kind of feels like a bitnto ealry for this video because of the faq coming in January but that about itm
Fenrisian wolves has OC 0
The problem with Drukhari is that Aeldari can use their units and is the strongest faction. You can't fix one faction while not breaking the other with just point changes. And GW is real conservative on changing rules.
Only thing i find tough for the sisters of battle is anti tank, and range units, 0 flyers etc. But aeldari are just broken. It funny every edition theres always 1 to 3 broken factions that takes GW a while to nerf.
im so hoping they make big changes to dark angels when the codex comes out / rework Lion as he is to expensive and useless, rework DWK points for 15pts or so cheaper, yes they are tough and amazing melee, but they cant shoot and their melee weapons have no sustained or lethal hits unless paying for a character to give it to them.. imo DWK are the best unit i have used for DA but unless you take vanguard to infiltrate or spend 230pts on a crusaider they will be shot down by most armies – the fact a thrid of your army is taken up by 10 melee only terminators is brutal on list making as they are a must take unit but cost a third of your army roster more with a chaplain or captain model
Admech in tier 4 is very generous indeed
We had a player play a Guard list with 10 tanks; 2 Basilisks, a Malcador, three Executioners, two Chimeras, and a Hellhound, a Russ and a Dorn. He absolutely dominated in a recent league, being beat only by a Salamanders Firestorm Assault Force.
The store staff told me (a new player, it was my third game) not to feel bad and several other players online and off I talked to pointed to that style being not really what Warhammer is about.
No salamanders? Where would you put them at?
A long ways from the braying of players at 10e release.
Everything GW seems to do to try and balance the game seems to break something. Everything they do to obstensibly try and nerf the Eldar seems to hurt another army more and make no difference to the Eldar anyway.
They really should have playtested this edition properly before release.
i really hope that they make custodes better in some way
lol I’ve been bottom tier so long as a guard player that I take an odd sort of pride in guard never being over a 50% win rate. I almost hope that these ranking videos put guard at or near the bottom. I demand we never be ranked above mid tier.
As a Tyranid player who often plays into Necrons I am finding 10th edition very frustrating. The biggest frustration here is really down to how consistently useful Reanimation Protocols is and when compared to how unreliable/unimpactful Synapse and Shadow in the Warp is.
Aeldari being at the top of the top since the beginning, i am sure the time i finish my army and start to play them, they will be nerf to oblivion xD
Necron player here, just played with a Death Guard friend, we ended around 70 to 80, with the Canoptek Court being actually quite vulnerable to the close ranged attack DG benefit has, -1 to hit basically cancels a great deal of our power matrix as by the end of the day 5+ to hit is still quite weak, even more so when you consider our best canoptek units aren't really that good at dealing damage, I actually think bringing Doomsday Arks instead of Doomstalkers, Tomb Sentinels and Tomb Stalkers would have been far better due vastly outranging their miasma, on the other hand the Wraiths were spectacular, even with the penalties they were excellent at doing anything they were required to do, which is to score and tank.
Can ANYONE, anyone link me to a YouTube video where a 2000 point Admech army won? I have been asking and have not seen one since the codex has been released. Caveat: It has to be a free video. I am not subscribing to any paid channels. Admech should be down in tier 6. 5 at best.
Are you telling me that Death Guard almost doubled their winrate since 10th edition launch? Lets go stinky boiis
I think Grey Knights and Deathwatch shouldnt be individual factions. They should be part of an Inquisitor faction that allows you to supplement a specific subfaction with rules towards your preferred units kinda like how the dark eldar do
You can make it to where youre playing a specific army, but now you can use niche units from the other lists and visa versa to help round out their small rosters.
On the Knights, also the Army Rule buff (5+ FNP/+3 CP) only happens in your next Command Phase. Meaning you usually dont have that buff before BR3 or even BR4. Until then your knights have suffered already heavy losses. Only the RR 1x Hit & Wound of 1 comes in directly after the WL is killed. Overall no were near to other army rules like Oath of Moment.
The stats on Ad Mech are so skewed. There are two god tier players in Australia that have pushed the Australian win rate for the faction to 68%, and because it's not played that much, they end up warping the stats. When you take out Oceania region, you end up with a 38% win rate with Ad Mech pre-codex.
This last weekend of data (post codex) for Ad Mech put them as the worst faction win rate wise. In <20 player tournaments they got a 37.8% win rate and in >20 player tournaments they got a 35% win rate. Overall that's a 36.6% win rate, where the second worst faction is 40.2%.
That's a real problem. The Ad Mech codex actually nerfed the "best" shooting in Breachers, cutting their range and removing the shootback strat. Ad Mech currently have the worst shooting output by mathhammer. World Eaters get better ranged units!
I'd be very surprised to not see Ad Mech changes in January given they were mentioned in the recent interview and the Codex was written around the time of the Index so they weren't aware of how badly they messed up the Index. At present, Ad Mech are the least "killy" army in 40k, which doesn't feel very lore appropriate, the army now tends to swarm objectives and just utilize cheap wounds to moveblock. Need big changes and a formal apology from GW lol
Chaos needs a lot of internal balance. Chosen are basically legionaries+ and need a points increase( 23/24 ppm) without touching the rules, forgefiend needs maybe a +5/+10 points increase, mutated cultists too, but almost all of the characters and other models(helldrake, defiler…) need a rule change/points drop. 70 points for a 4W 3+ save character without a strong rule is the usual CSM character. Lords and obliterators don’t need to be touched.