(Conversation recorded on March 25th, 2024)
Show Summary:
In this episode, Nate is joined by educator and indigenous researcher Vanessa Andreotti to discuss what she calls “hospicing modernity” in order to move beyond the world we’ve come to know and the failed promises that “modernity” has made to our current culture. Whether you refer to it as the metacrisis, the polycrisis, or – in Nate’s terms – the human predicament, Vanessa brings a unique framing rooted in indigenous knowledge and relationality to aid in understanding, grieving, and building emotional resilience within this space. What does it mean to live and work within systems that are designed to fail, embedded in an aimless culture? How do we as individuals steady ourselves and create inner strength before engaging with such harrowing work? Importantly, what could education look like if founded in the principles of intergenerational knowledge transmission and emotional regulation, that are centered on our collective entanglement with the Earth?
About Vanessa Andreotti:
Vanessa de Oliveira Andreotti is the Dean of the Faculty of Education at the University of Victoria. She is a former Canada Research Chair in Race, Inequalities and Global Change and a former David Lam Chair in Critical Multicultural Education. Vanessa has more than 100 published articles in areas related to global and climate education. She has also worked extensively across sectors internationally in projects related to global justice, global citizenship, Indigenous knowledge systems and the climate and nature emergency. Vanessa is the author of Hospicing Modernity: Facing humanity’s wrongs and the implications for social activism, one of the founders of the Gesturing Towards Decolonial Futures Arts/Research Collective and one of the designers of the course Facing Human Wrongs: Climate Complexity and Relational Accountability, available at UVic through Continuing Studies.
For show notes, including referenced articles and additional resources:
https://thegreatsimplification.squarespace.com/episode/125-vanessa-andreotti
00:00 – Intro
1:52 – The House of Modernity
16:34 – Hospicing the House of Modernity
22:56 – Theory of Change
31:49 – Affective Responses
43:55 – Healing Trauma
54:42 – Relational Intelligence
59:11 – Metabolical Literacy
1:04:59 – Dopamine Dependence
1:07:25 – Depth Education
1:09:27 – Reception with Young People
1:14:38 – How Do You Keep Going?
1:20:22 – Personal Advice
1:28:34 – What Would You Do with a Magic Wand?
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Education needs reform first!
Further, colonialism should be curtailed.
Recognizing the harms of the past, but also acknowledging that the human has been colonizing since the beginning of time.
My Scandinavian and Germanic ancestors were likely some of the biggest, until the Romans colonized them.
Focusing on the 7 deadly sins may hold some key to redirect this. How do we control:
pride
greed
wrath
envy
lust
gluttony
sloth?
"The Earth is a living, breathing entity with its' own metabolism", Vanessa Andreotti wisely stated. Yet, for thousands of years Western epistemology has taught us that "Man is the Center of all things"… who shall have "DOMINION" over it all. Our most ancient greek philosophers warned us of human hubris in the tale of Ulysses'. To believe that he could fool the gods was a foolish fatal error which he and his crew paid for dearly. To believe that we are the owners and masters of the Earth (like we do) should make our contemporary "heroes" in Government and Industry cower in fear and shame.They learned from the wrong books.
Thank you very very very much 😢❤❤❤
Per Joseph Campbell life lives on death. At one time hunters would have a ceremony after the killl thanking the animal for its sacrifice.
Once again, the Great Simplification must be commended for its perpetual kaleidoscopic array of guests! Nate Hagens and his crew never cease to amaze me. The mere intent of this podcast warms my ancient heart like few other things can.
I am so pleased, Nate, that you are featuring Vanessa and the GTDF collective's work. It has been the most impactful work on my personal and professional journey.
I am liking this for the title alone! Watching now….
This book changed my life. Right now, education is fueling the challenges that we have. I love the idea of education as something that addresses denials that we all keep. But man, that is an existential idea for educators who are trained and assess their value on addressing ignorance.
I think most people plan for the best case scenario because that's what feels good. When "high waters" rush in they are surprised.
What a beautiful interview. Thank you!
Vanessa, I can't express how you've impacted me. I'm accustomed to loving Nate's guests, but you are relatable in a spooky way. Your every word echoes with clarity. I needed this. Many thanks. 🙏🏽
1:25:58 I hope doggo is having the best dreams.
Fantastic podcast. This, and the last discussion on the Indic mind were super super helpful, keep them coming!
"The warmth of the dragon with the dragon's consent could be put to good use. The dragon is part of the ecology."
I think Vanessa Andreotti is brilliant.
A priceless conversation ❤️ so much to revisit and digest (love all the gut metaphors)
Good evening Nate and Vanessa
Super relatable.
Beautiful shared conversation.
Truly grateful.
💜
I knew this would be awful when she gave a land acknowledgement at the beginning and it only went downhill from there. This is why I hate academics.
This was once again tremendous; right at the end, the words of "going back to womb" brought me to immediate tears, it is just so powerful.
@23.30 and the outcomes not being what the goal was, in the 1800's the enlightenment period that was in Europe meant the end of slavery, but those people get blamed for it the most.
For any change to happen it must be the bourgeois, us, that must change first. The only great changes happened when they did.
She mocks the idea that people need to be productive but you can be darn sure she thinks that the government should steal the products of others and give them to her.
At 14mins she discusses denial of violence. A powerful example of this is our killing and exploitation of billions of sentient beings merely because we like how they taste. Many have observed that we are unlikely to have peaceful relations with each other until we stop consuming animals and their excretions.
I'm only 6mins in and I love this woman, Vanessa Andreotti, and the facts that she is talking about. . .
"" Responsibility as restraint " what a wonderful way to start the rehabilitation of humanity.
OMG, this woman is brilliant! Leave it to the holistic deep feminine perspective to perceive the way forward. This is exactly what I have found myself saying to myself and others: Stop! Stop running around in your head in a panic to "fix the problem." Slow down. Breathe. Be present. Rest. Quietly – look around. Allow the whole to find its own way of manifesting within its polarities. All of our troubles have arisen from our unconscious hubris… From our failure to listen to and work in harmony with Nature's laws. We've already blown it — what's broken was already broken long ago. Therefore stop now. Let go of attachment to the narratives that define the current systems and listen to what's been whispering all along in the ear of your intuition. Let Nature show you her ways of fulfilling the needs of her organisms and their communities; let her teach you how to work in harmony with her, so all may thrive.
Mankind talks about holism as a new way of framing reality, but mankind has yet to even begin to grasp the meaning and implications of what holism actually is. This is the first step.
Nate & team: Does anyone have the correct attribution for that Krishnamurrhi quote on "to be is to be related"? I'd like to use it, but I'm not coming up with any search results for it at all. Not word for word, not stated generally, not with Krishnamurthi's name attached. (Disappointed!😉) It's a nice quote, but I don't want to put it out there with Krishnamurthi's name attached if it's just another stick-on-a-convenient-spiritual-name attribution. There's way too much of that in circulation as it is. Thx!
Processing the sh*t of the dying to avoid choking the ingestation. Wow, that is profound.
Vanessa is thinking deeply and collaborating deeply and also getting the word out in a powerful way. Truly amazing interview.
bump
This was definitely the most upbeat and convincingly optimistic approach to the metacrisis that I have heard. Vanessa was a pleasure to listen to. A second listen might allow it's contents to permeate and perhaps penetrate the scar tissue around my soul caused from gazing into the abyss. It would be nice to delight in possibility again, but human behaviour is the confounding variable in the calculation. What can we do? What will we do? What have we always done and why?