Two veteran Star Trek podcasters watch Babylon 5 for the first time in this reaction video and podcast. Brent Allen and Jeff Akin search for Star Trek like messages in this series, deciding if they should have watched it sooner.
Purple.
Green.
Purple.
Green.
PURPLE
GREEN
And we get techno-mages…wizards on Babylon 5!!
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Babylon 5 – 2X03 – The Geometry Of Shadows
How many Drazis does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Two.
One Green Drazi screws in a Purple Drazi into the bulb socket, thus creating The Ultimate Purple Drazi Light Bulb!
..and speaking of a comic anecdote:
Ivanova: "but dont you understand? This is insane! It doesn't make any sense to go around killing each other over a stupid piece of cloth!"
Drazi Leader: "You do same, for flag? for honor?"
Ivanova: "That's different."
Drazi Leader: "Is it?"
Ivanova: "Our flags at least mean something. It's not as arbitrary as yanking a colour out of a box. I mean, you're fighting and dying over a stupid piece of cloth!"
If subtexts could scream, they'd want to resonate as profoundly as the meaning emerging from that bit of conversation.
Before I start commenting on the episode, just wanted to say that I understand how the more we go further down the story, it becomes harder to avoid spoilery comments since almost any reply might induce a spoilery conclusion.
I personally try to refrain as much as possible from spoilers in my reviews, addressing only the events of the episode in regards to all events leading up to it, and not anything that happens further down the story.
Although this review will be no exepction to that rule, I acknowledge it is getting pretty hard to walk the thin line of spoilery.
I'll leave you with the decision of whether you might want to consider a different light of what I find to be one of the greatest episodes of the season, or if you'd like to lock your view of it till further notice.
To that end I've dropped my review several spaces further down the comment box.
I strongly advise you to hire a spoiler moderator for your channel.
Peace. 🙂
The Review:
I find this episode to be about the quest for self validation, the choices made to acquire it and their consequences.
Garibaldi wants to validate his qualification for his position as chief of security.
Ivanova wants to validate her promotion by trying to fix the drazi problem.
Londo seeks validation of his destiny and ascendance to power, first with Refa, and later on with the technomages.
There is a strong correlation between both A and B plots, and it comes as negation.
Londos' poor choices and their poor results are contrasted and highlighted by Ivanova and Garibaldis' achievements and how they rose to the occasion all the while Sheridan is still figuring out his position trying to understand what he doesn't understand not just about the station but the world around him.
The episode above all things asks what measures ought to or should be taken in order to make accomplishments.
To understand why the episode is called by its' title you'd have to understand it in the context of the rest of the story.
Since hinting what might be unfolding is to some degree a spoiler at its' own merit, I'm gonna have to refrain from doing so.
One of my favorites of the season.
10 Pak'ma'ras beyond the shadow of a doubt.
Adios and many blessings. 🙂
The title and the episode have a lot to do with each other, you just do not have the background information needed to make the connections. This is the reason why I want you guys to do a rewatch of the series once you finish it, episodes like this, that mean nothing to you right now, have huge impact on those who watched the show already. And yes Brent, you got some serious info dump in this episode, you just missed it because you did not know what to look for. Which means the episode works as intended. I think you are still stuck in expecting B5 to be episodic show. It is cut up into episodes for sake of time and filming and airing it, but it is master craft in long form. Some of the information in this episode will not make sense to you for next several seasons! So be patient and do not unplug your seat belt, we are still sitting in the roller coaster train that is moving.
I rather liked this episode, especially on a series rewatch. In no particular order:
Vir is awesome. Am I misremembering, or did you guys hate Vir at first?
Ivanova's idea of diplomacy is to yell at you and beat with a pipe until you agree with her. When she can’t do that, and has to deal with people who are just as unwilling to budge as she, she’s out of her depth. I kinda like that people here have strengths and weaknesses. One thing that always irked me a bit about Star Trek was that the ensign responsible for cleaning the toilet could somehow repair a warp drive.
The title Geometry of Shadows is a reference to the Technomages. Geometry pertaining to math and technology, shadows to something mysterious.
A couple of your comments had me grinning knowingly. I won’t mention which ones.
Ha ha ha ha ha. Can't say anything else
Remember that Garibaldi didn't go to B5 just for the job, he followed his friend, Jeff, and they were each other's best friend and confidants.
Susan was given the freedom to be the badass, and at times over step, under Sinclair's umbrella. When he left, her 'badass' coping skills allowed her to hold her own for a while but those tactics won't lead to actually fixing anything.
Garibaldi had the foundations of his place in the universe crumble so he is questioning everything.
Susan served under Sheridan before and is aware of his, more delegatorial leadership style and is purposely trying to use her diplomatic skills to solve the Drazzi problem.
I really don’t care for this episode, because I’m not that keen on the Technomages. Nothing against the concept, but it just felt a bit… gimmicky, somehow.
That said, Elric’s speech to Londo is absolutely bone-chilling and a stand-out for me. (And, of course, PURPLE!)
What? its a B5 episode. seven words to make anyone fall in love with you. you only had to say one. Hello.
Star Trek is a utopia of a better mankind, while Babylon is shockingly similar to what is happening nowadays.
19:48: In The Lord of the Rings, it is actually Gildor who says: “But it is said: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. The choice is yours: to go or wait.”
On which Frodo replies: “And it is also said: Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will answer both no and yes.”
And like Gildor and the Elves, the Technomages are on their way to leave the world in the expectation of the thins to come.
I was never interested in politics until I saw this show,amazing writing,characters,music,tech.
not a spoiler in any way. my take about the Drazi' green / purple is not just leadership but a culling of the Drazi. because they do fight to the death. as a way to limit their population on their home world. it is my opinion only. don't know if it is stated anywhere one way or the other. never looked into it.
So it's now Jeff "Technomage" Akin?
"Babylon Flive?" Fix it in post.
It totally makes sense in hindsight when that thing happens to those characters, and those other characters do the other thing. You'll look at this episode and go, "Well of course it is."
Susan was only solving the problem only on B5. to keep them from fighting on the station. but not anywhere else.
A quick thought about credits and spoilers. There has been much mention of the accidental spoilers with some people not seeing the "safe" version of the early season 2 credits. However given the comments in this episode, there is a wider issue of whether the credits in general are spoilers.
I don't believe there are any spoilers for specific episodes but it is advisable to treat the credits as a trailer for the whole season. You are meant to see/hear things and think about what it could mean. Personally I never had any problem with the credits, but if you want to go into a season completely blind, then I would suggest you don't watch the credits during the episodes and leave them until the end of season wrap up.
I strongly disagree with the opening being a spoiler now in that everything there is what the creator wanted you to know (and you might think you know more from it than you do). It would be interesting for Jeff to write down what he thinks it means and then see how close he was at the end of the season.
Why were Sheridan and Elric arguing? Because of what Londo told Sheridan. We don't know how it started by we can infer why it escalated. Earth wants answers, Sheridan has heard some negative stuff about technomages from Londo, and Elric wants to be left alone and doesn't want to deal with any of this.
JMS gave an explanation for the title at the time. ""The Geometry of Shadows" seemed to me a good metaphor for the technomages; a mix of science with something dark and mysterious. How do you work out the geometry of something that in one sense doesn't really exist, but is a projection of something else that DOES exist? That seemed to me as good a notion of technomagic as anything else."
I am kind of baffled by your reactions to this episode (mostly Brent's), namely the confusion it caused as I never had that issue with it. I mean I had some questions but I wasn't left wondering what the heck happened or feeling that it didn't have an ending.
JMS on the title The Geometry of Shadows, in his recent online (on YT) commentary on this episode (has spoilers, don't watch unless you have seen the whole series): "I like the dichotomy of that. Shadows are indefinable, indistinct, there and not there. And geometry is very precise. And I liked the idea of precision vs the more sort of almost poetical elements of a shadow. That kind of sums it up for me a great deal for the Technomages about what they are and what they do. And I wanted to keep a reference also to the Shadows because…"
He also said there's absolutely no greater significance to the colors purple vs green. 💜
If you want more on the technomages, check out the follow up series ’Crusade’
Bit confused by the statement that this episode didn't have an ending. When Michael Ansara says "Your victims." in that voice of his, how can it be anything but a full stop. The next scene is just a footnote by comparison. That final dialogue between Elric and Londo is so chilling that it should have been worth a starfury just by itself.
Also, Michael Ansara was great in Buck Rogers.
This make me wonder, is the Drazi homeworld undergoing an ethnic cleansing similar to Rwanda's Hutus vs,.Tutsis? Is this a genocide? By season 3 is half the Drazi population dead?
All the best characters are both green and purple. The Incredible Hulk, Elphaba Thropp, Susan Ivanova…
question, what else would you do with drazi?
im probably weird, but her taking the scarf solved the problem
and dyeing the scarfs purple ends the fight, since there is only one side.
it was silly, probably to balance the struggle with garibaldi and the end of londo's story.
(i hope this doesnt come across as attacking. its not really my intent.)
Ivanova was portrayed as unsure of herself in this episode, and to me it makes perfect sense because she is a young officer who’s thus far trained mostly to be a military commander. Now for the first time she’s asked to be a diplomat, a completely new situation to her and she has to make things up as she goes. It’s perfectly natural to portray her this way.
And B5 does have these episodes that focus more on world building, character development and setting the scene.
I’ve had to come back and watch/listen for a second time as I was finding myself becoming increasingly frustrated by the review… but what I’ve realised here is that I’m in the wrong. I have a protectiveness over this show and the way it, in my opinion, redefined how arc based science fiction works so when I’ve been watching your reactions and you seemingly not “appreciating” the signs and portents being seeded through the show, I’ve gotten over protective… BUT Your reactions ARE genuine for how genre fans would have viewed B5 at the time and their expectations… it’s my expectations of you that are out of whack!
Reposting my comment from Brent’s reaction video because I think it’s valid here too:
I know I’m probably going to get some flak for this comment, but just some thoughts I had as I read through the comments here. There are a lot of comments saying how Brent will understand/better appreciate this episode in a season or two, or how it will make more sense as the plot develops. Aside from that being a borderline spoiler, I think it misses the point of the podcast. I think of this podcast in the same way as “Mission log” doesn’t jump the Star Trek timeline in their show. Brent can only react to what he has seen so far. It would make no sense if at the end of each reaction, he just talked about how he is excited to see how the episode links up in the future and didn’t evaluate it on its own standing. First time viewers did not know what was coming and this podcast is supposed to mimic that experience.
I also think constantly telling them why each episode will appear so much better in a season or two, is overhyping things, and bound to lead to let down. Just my opinion, but I think it is far better to let those reflections come in time and not jump the timeline in the comments. What made Babylon five such an amazing show for me was that I did not know how much would link together or what episodes would matter more in a few seasons the first time I watched it. It was an amazing and complete surprise to me when it happened and I think we should be careful not to spoil that for the hosts.