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I’ve heard your so-called “best” arguments to keep the Electoral College for four years, and all of them are weak and pathetic. Sorry, the Electoral College still sucks. Get rid of it or reform it.
Produced by Matt Beat. All images and video by Matt Beat, used under fair use guidelines, or found in the public domain. Music by @Electric Needle Room, @The Mini Vandals, @Birocratic, and Trash Planet.
Sources/further reading:
https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/democracy_is_two_wolves
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-01-12-me-358-story.html
https://www.economist.com/international/2021/01/16/political-theorists-have-been-worrying-about-mob-rule-for-2000-years&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/why-republicans-keep-saying-that-the-united-states-isnt-a-democracy
With footnotes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12eNwfnVRbXOQoosh2chBktMmgu8o6VDsbwlzYZ_VxFc/edit?usp=sharing
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#electoralcollege #voting #votingrights
As it turns out, and I can’t stress this enough, Electoral College defenders DO like democracy. They think it’s great. They like ordinary people like you and me having power and having a voice. THEY want to be heard. I’ve heard your arguments to keep the Electoral College for four years now. But every single one of your arguments are so weak and predictable that they’re kind of boring at this point. It’s not that I don’t understand how presidential elections were supposed to go. It’s that how they were supposed to go sucks and needs to change. Again, no, this doesn’t mean I want a DIRECT democracy. I want a true REPRESENTATIVE democracy.
source
Face the facts, Anti-Federalists. We're all Federalists now.
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Can you do a comparison video of how the European Union does their elections, specifically the principle of degressive proportionality? I know you said not any other country does the electoral college, however the EUs system seems pretty close. The way I see it, each member country of the EU is comparable to each of state of the US. Thank you!
Greeting from Quebec, Canada, Mr. Beat.
I just came to watch that video and I was curious on your opinion on electoral college. I ended up watching it completely, it was interesting!
About direct democracy and the fact that votes count differently depending on where you live. We do have the same "issue" here in Quebec as we vote for our MP directly, the most vote wins no matter a majority or not. Also, the executive branch gets named from the party having the most MPs. So our Premier can get elected with less the 50% of the vote, what a mess eh?
My point is we have the same kind of issues here even the system is different. We tend to have less pop counties in rural zone that count for a MP while urban counties have more pop, but still have 1 MP.
I like the way France did it: direct vote for President, than a second tour with only 2 candidates so the president ends up having a majority of voters voting for him. But again, other challenges raise…
I mean if we really wanted to prevent tyranny of the majority, we'd use ranked choice voting to directly elect the president.
No mean names. No insults to you, in fact I DO like your channel even if I sometimes have different opinions. I am originally from Venezuela and I still have a lot of family and I know first-hand what the impact of what a “dictatorship of a majority” means. Hugo Chavez won an election with 56% of the vote, fear. A year later he dissolved the congress (in a referendum) and then his party won the majority now by only 51%. Since then, many changes took place, approved by simple majority including changing the length of the presidential term from 5 to 6 years and NOT counting his first term to make a total of presidency of 17 years (potentially). The Supreme Court was enlarged (don’t remember by how much) and voted that the president/congress could replace a Supreme Court Judge by simple majority etc, etc, etc. The result, you probably know it well, my Old Country is a disaster. Yes, we had issues, yes we had corruption but nothing similar to what is now. The electoral College may not be perfect and maybe a serious conversation necessary but if not for the Electoral College, why would ANY candidate care about what, say Wisconsin or North Dakota or New Hampshire think In terms of national policies like i.e. Taxes etc? The beauty of this country, this Nation, is that is a conglomerate of states that got together for the common good, each one should have a say on the future of the Nation this “say” can, sometimes be eclipsed if we only consider the number of citizens without taking into consideration the there are also multiple states. Sorry for the loooong speech.
I grew up in Wyoming. There is absolutely no reason my vote should have ever been worth ~1/3 of what it was with in Wyoming, regardless of the state I lived in. Though my votes haven't really ever meant too much, not frequently residing in swing districts and all.
What’s interesting to me is that the initial point of the electoral college was for the electors to go against the popular vote as a “check on democracy”. With faithless elector laws on the books, the electoral college doesn’t have even a tiny semblance of relation to why it was founded. Electoral College defenders who say “well that’s what the almighty founders intended” but support the system in it’s current form are making a completely dishonest argument.
Mr beast new vid is fire
Even if you think pure democracy is bad, that doesnt explain why electoral college is better. Other than a handful of mostly flukes, every election except 5 in America history has been majority rule. All it does is make swing states decide close elections, and usually it just goes with the majority anyhow. It doesn't protect small states. It just makes 5 swing states the only thing that matters.
Great video
Mr beat their is a guy talking trash about just letting know you are my favorite history YouTube
Your entire ramshackle half baked electoral system, the least democratic electoral system in the English speaking world, is terrible.
75% of the people attacking you want a third Reich/Gilead hybrid dictatorship.
I don't hate the Electoral College, I don't Like it either. the Solution at the end of the video seems brings the best of both worlds together, why does it have to be complicated!?
One bad side effect of the EC is that it has locked the size of the House of Representatives in at 435 people since 1913 since to increase the size of it to reflect that the US Population is now 3-4x bigger than it was over 100 yrs ago, would lessen the impact of the smaller states like Wyoming or Delaware in voting for President. So our congressional districts keep getting bigger and bigger, making it harder & harder for a congressman/woman to serve the district, and instead beholden to the power of big donors. Canada with a population 1/11th of ours, has 338 people in its lower house. The UK, with a population 1/4th of ours, has over 650 MPs in its House of Commons.
Electoral college enables someone like Trump to steal an election. I don’t like that a committee of “the government” decide whether my vote counts or not.
“Oh know! Dems won! Quick change the vote. Let dear leader win.”
– Someone from the GOP probably.
On principle, it's hard to defend the electoral college. However, I do think this mechanism has served its purpose. We haven't had a civil war since 1865. Instead of debating the electoral college, it might be time to start talking about peaceful divorce.
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6:15 "Literally every other election in the country is done by a majority vote."
The EC is technically also a majority vote system but only if we consider it a series of two elections. The state's electors are decided by majority vote in the first set of elections (November). The President is then elected by a majority vote of the electors in the second election (December). So technically, the EC does not violate the principle of "every election is done by a majority vote" since both elections are both decided by majority vote. The Speaker of the House is similarly seated by a series of two elections. Likewise, the Constitution requires the Senate to elect a president pro tempore. Either these are two more examples of elections that are not done by majority vote or these are all technically majority votes.
However, if Mr. Beat is trying to insinuate that "every other public office is decided by majority vote" then it's blatantly false. The most notable example is the SCOTUS which is done by appointment and consent. Stop here and consider there are 3 equal branches of government. Congress is seated by popular vote, but justices are placed by appointment. Therefore, there is no "every other" argument if we are talking about the top tiers of government. One could just as easily make the argument that POTUS should be more like SCOTUS than Congress. Mr. Beat's "every other" argument is at best a logical fallacy (begging the question) or at worst, a blatant lie.
Furthermore, if we consider all public offices, through all of American history, there are MANY which are not decided simply by popular vote. Outside of the justice division, there are many "city managers" seated by appointment rather than elected mayors. Within the legislative branch, federal Senators used to be selected by state houses up until 1913. Originally, “the Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof". Seating government officials by popular election is far less ubiquitous than Mr. Beat implies. For example, there are 32 nations with prime ministers that are typically NOT seated by popular vote.
Oye
Those who defend the electoral college just don’t want change. It scares them! Mostly because way too many talking heads freak them out about it. They repeat the messages of doom and aren’t really aware of anything else.
It’s kind of sad really!
Thanks for being willing to get real conversations going
Do more of these “propaganda” videos I genuinely want to hear your opinion
The problem isn't that electoral college is good or bad, it's that we have a single president that is being voted on. I prefer to have electoral college because having a federal government is backwards. Currently we have federal laws, and we have state laws, and they are independent. But that's not at all how it should be. States should override federal laws, and city laws should override state laws. It's absolutely tiring to have people from red states dictate that blue states cannot have abortion, and it's also infuriating that blue states have influence over red states that would prefer to have religion in schools. Then, on top of that, we have a single president that picks and chooses what laws to enforce. The only way to have a thriving society is to live and let live, and that means that local matters should trump matters from far away places. Having electoral college is marginally closer to this concept, so that's preferable.
This country is not a democracy. Never was. It is a republic that has representatives voted on by the populace. That's at the state level… we are a conglomeration of countries that submit to a unified government that shows we are allied together for the good of ourselves and defense of each other. The Electoral College reflects this principle that states, not people are represented at the federal level. It's a big reason why I actually support repealing the 17th Amendment. The House was to represent the people and the Senate was to represent the states. Which is why it's an equal vote in the Senate per state but not the House.
Brother, R u going to make video on counterculture of 1960s ,and the reason for it's spread. while govt had all the media under control. Yes or no expecting your reply
“The electoral college protects the minority from being governed by the majority … by making the majority govern the minority.”
What the fuck is the point of voting if your vote didn’t matter?
(You are def better than electoral college defenders)
We're is this college.
I disagree it does protect the smaller states to make sure that all Americans are heard if you have no electoral college the big states will run the whole election some people in this comment section Just don’t get it it works always has worked and it protects everyone’s voted evenly. You say that we are Minority supporting electoral college where is your fax on that because I would actually disagree with you I would say 60% of the country or more supports electoral college at the end of the day it’s all about power the if the electoral college is gone you will never see a another republican president again. Then you say you don’t want a Direct democracy to replace our constitutional republic then you advocate to end the electoral college direction no sense. You hate on people for saying the founder stood up for a reason they didn’t serve that for a reason to protect every single vote in the United States instead of changing the whole country to swing red or blue you change your state you have more power within your state then you do on a federal level or a country level or Nationwide electoral college works I will never go away and thank God it won’t
mr beast can u give me money
Great system we have, where if you’re a Republican (R) in NY and MA, your vote doesn’t matter. If you’re a Democrat (D) in AL and WV and AR, your vote doesn’t matter. If you live in a state that always votes the same, like Alaska or CA, your vote doesn’t matter. The only way your vote matters is if you live in a state where it flips, like Ohio or Pennsylvania. I guess the electoral college DOES give the minority power, but it’s not the rural states, it’s those purple states
I say we do away with voting all together and return to a monarchy. Long live King George!
Well… if majoritarianism is so great, why not just eliminate the states altogether and have uniform federal laws across the entire country? I mean, why even bother with the concept of state's rights at all if the power of the federal government continues to grow to a point where it crushes state and local government? That's why the electoral system is even more important today than at the founding, because it slows some of this power grab by the federal government. There are regional interests and their are national interests. The electoral system encourages presidents to have policies with broader national appeal that are better for the country as a whole. Otherwise, the bought and paid for political prostitute we call the President, will only turn tricks for his johns in the biggest population centers. It ensures some balance or moderation of the diverse political interests that exist in this country. Abandoning the electoral system would create an even greater rift between urban and rural populations. Let's face it! Yuppies in California, Florida, New York, and Texas, don't give a rat's bass about farmers in Kansas and South Dakota (much less the farmers in their own states). They take their kids to petting zoos to see exotic animals like cows, goats, and chickens. 😂 They don't understand that most beef cattle are fed corn in huge feed lots. They don't seem to know where their McDonald's cheeseburger actually comes from. They don't know a cow pie from a Moon pie. I certainly don't want these people having any more power to decide who the president will be than they do now.
I had a thought today, why are state boundaries so rigid today anyway? They were founded by groups of like minded people early on (puritans in New England for example) but those boundaries no longer reflect the groups with many states having wildly varying ideologies from urban to rural areas. Why aren't the state borders adjusted to reflect these changes in politics?
I agree with you. The Electoral College is antiquated. Giving states electoral weight based upon population seems rather unfair now since its original intent really does meet the need anymore. I have a preference for Ranked-Choice voting, but when I try to explain it to people, they look at me like I am speaking a foreign language.
Americans are WAY too attached to how the founders did things.
What was revolutionary in 1776 is often outdated in 2022.
Why not fix the Senate? How about we allow larger population areas (such as Austin, TX) to create special senate districts and send their own senators to DC?
It wouldn't directly fix the electoral college, but it would allow the 48-51% of the population of Texas to finally have a voice in the Senate.
Ok, now I see how it would further break the electoral college. Maybe this is the wrong video for this pitch.
11:12 But you can have national elections without those problems. Signed: the entirety of Europe.
This is true but basics what kids supposedly learn in school is ignored often. The voters act like they don't know any media literacy skills including about philosophy of logical fallacies, what checks and balances are besides various governments existing besides the US, and hate facts … I can understand the conformity of dislikes.
About the "states with smaller populations will be left behind" argument, I think it is a valid one, but the electoral college is not the solution. In the European Union, we have a similar issue with my country of Belgium, being a fraction of Germany and France (even worse if you are Luxembourg). This is solved by having (I think) the EU Commission in which countries can veto bills they find too damaging to their country. This is a way we succesfully make sure that smaller/less poulated countries have a voice.
Ok, using the Font_of_All_Knowledge as a source, and going back as far as the 1900 Presidential election, these are the result I gleaned.
As a percentage of the whole electorate able to vote — the best turn-out for a party was for the Republican Party in 1904, 39.1295% of the electorate as a whole voting for them (26.074% to the Democratic Party), this was the Republicans' best result in the next 120 years. The worst turn-out for the Republican Party was in the 1912 election, 13.8444% (as opposed to 25.0035% for the Democratic Party and 16.3719% for the Progressives [The highest third-party turn-out in 120 years]). For the Democratic Party the best they have managed is 37.9731% (as opposed to 23.9269% for the Republican Party) in the 1964 election. The worst the Democratic Party has done was in the 1924 Presidential election, capturing only 14.169% of the electorate (as opposed to 26.567% for the Republican Party, with 8.1637% going to the Progressives).
So, no not exactly majority rule there.
[Fun fact the last time the Republicans captured than the Democratic Party of the total electorate was in the 2004 Presidential election — 29.0553% to 27.6447%]
[More FF's: The largest margin of victory to the Democratic Party was in 1936. Democratic Party up on the Republicans by 14.175%. The largest victory by the Republican Party was in 1972. The Republican Party up over the Democratic Party by 22.1281%]
mr.breast give me money
I personally think the whole idea of states voting is antiquated. It should've gone out with the Civil War. If you look at any map of the US broken down by districts, the United States is purple, not Red and Blue. The idea that a state is Red or Blue because the vote goes 55/45 is nuts.
I can understand the idea of states existing because you need a few individual laws for individual regions, based on geography, climate, etc. But the idea of states having "rights" is nonsense. People have rights, not states. Whenever someone claims a states' rights argument, it's almost always in the service of taking rights away from people.
"All you need is a seance to talk to me!" Benjamin Franklin, 1992.