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Video done using Miro (visual board)
TWITTER PALS:
St Trina Twitter: https://twitter.com/S41ntTr1n4
Littersox: https://twitter.com/Littersocks
MY SOCIALS:
Instagram.com/xingenue
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xinlaag.tumblr.com
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It's always been my thought that Farum Azula was destroyed in some way before the Golden Order, because of this quote from Placidusax's Remembrance: "The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return." Considering his injuries as well as the usage of "fled" to describe his god leaving, makes me think something fearsome came through Farum Azula while Placidusax was Elden Lord with his god, destroyed the place, made the god flee, and defeating Placidusax in his original form and is what caused the loss of his other heads. That it says "in the age before the Erdtree" says to me that these events, at the very least happened before, Marika had fully established the Golden Order. So either there was a time between the Placidusax's age as Elden Lord and the Golden Order, or Marika in establishing the Golden Order brought ruin to Farum Azula.
I also have always wondered if the true "Lord of the Storm" that is brought up quite a bit in reference to Stormveil Castle is connected in some way to Farum Azula. I don't recall where but I remember references to the storms around the castle previously being much stronger, and this could relate to Farum Azula being in its previous location in the large flooded area north east of Stormveil. Perhaps even the Lord of the Storm could be a descendent of the human king shown in Farum Azula or perphaps that very king himself.
Also "I might just stream 12 hours of Chao Gardens" – I already knew your content was worth subbing for, but now you have my trust as well.
First off, yaaaay! You and Tarnished Archeologist just keep reinvigorating my fascination with the world of Elden Ring. Thank you for going this deep. Love these deep dives into the varied cultures and their shared forms of expression as people marking their place in history.
Second, I posit the theory that the Storm King is Horah Loux; Godfrey’s greatest and final conquest before he lost the grace from his eyes. He as a character represents overcoming one’s past and previous cultural identity to assimilate into a new world order. It was this change however that marked the end of his usefulness as a conquering king. The perfect time to release him and his warriors from the control/influence of the Erdtree. Free to keep their blades sharp elsewhere, waiting to be wielded at a future date when Marika needed them to wage war again.
Godfrey may very well be a descendent of the human rulers portrayed in Farum Azula’s art. It would make sense that he would be allied with Sarosh, the Beast Regent if that were the case, being of the same cultural background.
Hope that made sense, stupid tired after work. Thank you for these videos.
Funny how in order to understand the map and how the Lands Between used to look, you have to furl the furled-finger-shaped map even more than it already is. But in order to use this particular info as a hint in figuring out the pangaea thing, you would have to know already that the map resembles the furled finger, which is far from obvious if you ask me.
I do think it looks like the bestial sanctum connected near to where the Erdtree is; that map outline looks the most accurate to me. But I think this sort of leaves unexplained why Caelid and the Mountaintops have all those similarities. You can also kind of fit the Farum region of Caelid to the Mountaintops, which would take care of this question but the fit is not as nice as the one you showed in this video.
I haven't watched your flower videos yet but I think it's cool how you have both red and golden trees in the Altus Plateau. (Your comment on the red trees in Farum Azula made me think of this.) It seems to represent the transition from the age of the crucible to the age of the Erdtree, using a transitional season (autumn) as a metaphor.
I like to think the lands between is the corpse of the one great. When the one great was killed or broken up inot new beings it lead to giant skeletons we see. Every generation breaks up the one great even further as evidence by humans and vulgar militia being the newest and smallest additions.
In my restless dreams, I see those gems
my assumption wrt the wormfaces is that theyre gathered in that particular altus forest because that's where godwyn died (entirely speculation on my part, just based on vibes and the fact that the trailer shows a group of black knife assassins riding in a forest + i dont imagine godwyn would set foot out of altus very often), but having them be native to farum azula and displaced to altus after the city was swept up by a cyclone would explain why theyre in farum azula too
Misspelled Uhl in the top right. Unforgivable. Lore ruined.
Just a note, the tower of Babel wasn't built to escape a flood. You've combined the story of the tower with the story of Noah. Chronologically speaking, the Tower of Babel happened after the flood. The tower was built in an effort to gain notoriety, the goal was to have this glorious tower that showed how awesome their civilization was. The thing that they felt would put it over the top, which happens to be the reason they get punished, is because they wanted it to go so high up that the top would rest in heaven with God. God wasn't infuriated at the vanity and the presumption that they were glorious enough to decide they could just build into heaven. And so, that the people might not gather and try such things again, God smote them. Destroyed their tower and afflicted them with "different tongues" (languages) to divide them.
I think the dragons attacked because Farum's power and influence had greatly waned and Leyndell's was on the rise, in part but mostly about pride. The "wait" as you call it was not a wait. Their civilization was hit with a meteor that seemingly destroyed it, causing dragons to flee to Caelid and the mountain tops, they were pre-occupied. Those who stayed in the city were likely looking to their Elden Lord to comeback with advise from God.
I think the inciting moment was probably when they learned the ruler of Leyndell was calling himself Elden Lord. I figure since the game makes a big deal of telling us how Godfrey is the first Elden Lord and we learn that he really wasn't, there has to be a reason. I choose that reason to be that it incited the dragons' pride and caused them to attack (I'm not saying this is why in-verse he is called Elden Lord but rather why the writers wrote it this way). But also, the game makes a point of showing how dragon faith was folded into the Erdtree faith. That bit of narrative would have been offered to us to illustrate the matter was also cultural issues because peace was attained when the House of Gold joined with the Dragons. I'm of the school of thought that Fortissax and Godwyn were more than friends. From that we see a union of lightning and gold play out. The benefits of this union likely inspired Radagon's second approach to Liurnia.
What if the moons are all waygates to other worlds? Ranni activated hers at the end obviously. Methinks the Numen lost their way home when the leaden moon disappeared.
I have been on a similar train of thought. I’m creeping towards the idea that the lands between were once ruled as the Sun Realm by the King depicted in Farum Azula, and that the Sun is the dragon god that “fled”, Farum Azula being the seat of the sun that has long since faded.
Thank you so much for making these videos. They're such a joy to watch
I’m mostly confident azula was originally where the royal capital is before the golden order and given the encroachment of godwin’s deathroot at the bottom reaches of azula (godwin lies beneath the capital) had to flee and go airborne in retreat. Its the same circumference of the royal capital and you’ll notice on the actual map layout of the capital there are hidden rubbled features completely flooded with water that are obscured by high walls preventing you from seeing it when you’re there. Also partially explains the presence of the coloring of the trees and the wormfaces from altus being present in azula as well. There was evidently a big dispute with dragons at the capital thats now a main feature of the city as you mentioned.
There is a repeating pattern on Farum Azula chunks and architecture that I swear looks like a depiction of different creatures, one of which is a worm face and one of which is the creature Godwyn’s body is turning into. Clearest place to see it is on the floating chunks you get to in Farum Azula via the 4 Bellfries. The pieces you stand on directly over the 2 beastmen you can fight.
I think that Gransaxx attacked in response to Marika actually claiming the Elden Ring, or discovery of her planning to, from the now fled god of Placidusaxx. Or somehow as part of this claiming of the Elden Ring plot.
Further explanation, Fortissax and Lansseax may actually be result of successful Eternal City/Numen experiments to create “dragons.” The mimic project and dragonkin projects never stopped. Marika, a Numen from the Eternal City she had Leyndell built upon, was part of a group studying the red-gold of “primordial” grace when she encountered Hoarah Loux and the budding religion of the Two Fingers.
The Numen were and have been trying to find a means of consistently birthing Numen children. That is, though they can reproduce with other species, it is rare that the child is actually Numen.. whatever qualities they claim to make someone Numen. We can liken them to something like Asari from Mass Effect.
Goes further back, the Numen saw amazing life generating magics in the Lands Between.. a lot of Celestial magical runoff and some really big guys had set up architecture to support this sort of garden of life. I would suggest that, small in number and likely in some measure of desperation, the Numen settled in subterranean ruins that put them closer to the pools “android milk” and silvery plants that had grown in the dark from the nightly flood of starlight that charged this world since its creation. Over time they would grow to cover the golden power held by the rulers on the surface but mostly because their efforts with the silver magic were not yet yielding a means of consistent Numen birth.
Yadda yadda yadda.. Forge of the Giants has something to do with refining red-gold grace into gold grace in large concentrations …maybe the ice dragons were an ingredient..timeline issues and confusion…
Dragonkin are part of an infiltration project of the Numen as they set sights on claiming the Elden Ring for their baby making project.. eventual success.. Gransax discovers the infiltration or is involved or whatever… we get a war, a friendship, Marika gets the Ring, Marika gives DD to Gloam Eyed Queen because Empyreans can hold great rune level grace and not go insane/die and Marika needs to start weakening the Golden Order religion of the Two Fingers which she had used to… uhhh..
I can’t ever stop myself. But you know that whole “your unwanted child” reference about Marika and the soulless demigods in their big fancy Numen Crypts? Unwanted doesn’t mean unloved. She’s a Numen, they want Numen children, they still very much love their non-numen children.
Oh but what about “… you’ll amount only to sacrifices” or whatever? The Greater Will is evil, the Erdtree, Elden Beast, Two Fingers… it’s all bad but the Numen are desperate to survive. Marika used a powerful growing religion to obtain what her people needed, she may have even fell for it a bit, her people even gave into fear of it but she swore to find its secrets and stop it even as she played her role in the growing religion. The establishment of the Golden Order when Marika claimed the Elden Ring had in it a massive act of defiance against the Greater Will. That is, Marika took away death which would starve the Erdtree of Grace. I know the arguments that come after, Marika used the “Erdtree Burial” practice as a means of generating zealotry and big grace meals which deceived the Two Fingers enough to not entirely doubt her devotion.
So why would she tell her kids to become something or be a sacrifice. Until her people determine how to defeat the Greater Will and usurp grace for their own purposes and come up with a means of consistently birthing Numen children, she has to play along. If her children don’t become important for more than just being born to her, eventually she will have to send them to the roots.
Imagine if the badlands DLC is the entire map with new enemies and alternate enemy placements on a giant desert pangea world…
you're literally the best and so smart
So we're all pretty sure we'll go back in time for the DLC, and I'm with that but…
Does anybody else think it will be revealed that there is a rune of time as well, which has also been removed from the Elden Ring and therefore fucked with everything? It would match themes of other games Miyazaki has made, and it could help contextualize what the hell is even going on in Farum Azula.
I'm a Dark Souls flat earther for sure. Maybe Bloodborne too.
18:00 And the Lord said, "Lo! [they are] one people, and they all have one language, and this is what they have commenced to do. Now, will it not be withheld from them, all that they have planned to do?" (translation from Chabad)
The Jewish bible was likely composed during the Babylonian exile; I've seen academics talk about the relationship between the tower and Etemenanki, the massive ziggurat dedicated to Marduk in Babylon. While later versions focus on the flashy and mysterious bit, the original repeats the phrase "the city and tower." They're destroyed not because of some specific ambition given in the text, but instead, "will it not be withheld from them, all that they have planned to do?"
'Beasts' is an interesting description for the denizens of Farum Azula; Serosh, the 'beastmen,' and Maliketh all look like different animals to me. The beasts and the dragons seemed to have communicated at some point, and so did beasts and humans.
I don't know if I've seen all these videos; have you talked about Serosh and Enkidu?
the dragon talisman world theory seems more sensible to me. One of the reasons is the idea suggested by others that the Beast Sanctum could have been the entrance with its bridges to Farum Azula. Because the white dot on the talisman map would correspond to the location of Farum Azula then.
Then just the many connections between Caelid and the giants that there must have been once land and just signs scattered on the entire map because the lands Between must have been once larger.
This is so sick, I love your videos! Best of luck with the sudoku headaches ❤ hang in there pal, sounds like you’re pretty good at taking care of yourself
Maybe you elaborated on this in another video that I missed, but why the fascination with the Onyx Lords? I feel like they serve their purpose in the plot in connecting Sellia to the Eternal Cities, and then connecting to Radahn, and I'm not sure what else I'd want to know about them.
Would love to here why they're so interesting to you!
That is all so surreal, the amount of lore in this game is so sick! I don't know if there is some type of reference to that but! Em theory the whole map of the lands between is a finger right? with calied being the point of the finger and the mountaintop being part of the hand, if the pangea theory holds true, the lands between are "almost" literally being an unfurling fingerm which I have no idea if it means something AHAHAHHA
Holy crap it even looks like the Siofra river below mirrors the (now flooded) Liurnia of the Lakes above on the dragon talisman ???
World map= dragon talisman, I'm sold
Is that roadmap at 32:22 avalable?
I feel like I know more about Souls lore than actual history. That's probably not a good thing
the reverse lore jigsaw puzzle of farum azula has an interesting synergy with the way that placidusax reverses time
one thing that kind of stuck with me was when you referenced what seemed like tides going out,
cause it seems that the Lands Between kind of are having something going on in the tidal front:
there are derelict of ships that are stuck out of the coastline, and what seems like sea creatures stranded on beaches (the land octopi)
but almost kind of opposite of Liurnia, which is sinking, it's making me think that the water level is lowering (?) and unearthing things(?) like, could the DLC area just be that, that central bit with the cloud(?)
1:25 me anytime I talk about anything in Elden Ring
Thank you for another insightful delve into your thinking and connections. I really love getting to experience your flow of consciousness because it's engaging and energising.
Since you mentioned the Alabaster/Onyx Lords and Divine Towers in the same video, do you think there's any connection if I may ask? To me, the towers have always seemed as if they're channelling beams/motes of light and dark into their depths. I guess it might just be a graphical flourish to make their interiors feel more mysterious, but could it indicate a more meaningful process?
I'd never considered that there might be a specific connection to the white-blue and gold-black meteoric ores of the Lords and any fundamental forces until now.
Above all, I hope the horrid headache season passes as quickly as can be, with as few episodes as possible. 💜
From my time in church I understand that the story of Babel is a cautionary tale against the pride of man. The flood had already happened when the city and tower had been built (not called Babel at this time). Humanity, under one language, gathered in one place to build this structure to the heavens instead of dispersing after the flood like God commanded. God saw this tower as symbol of pride and rejection so he fractured Humanity by confusing them with different languages so they couldn't be unified anymore. According to the Bible, the city received the name "Babel" from the Hebrew verb בָּלַ֥ל (bālal), meaning to jumble or to confuse.
Love your videos btw!
People misunderstanding stylistic choices in ancient art is funny. Sad, but funny.
Depicting oversized kings in order to convey their importance is one thing.
But think about the stereotypical ancient Egyptian depiction of people. Flat, in profile, angular proportions.
A lot of people think that this represents some progression in human artistic capability. That we started out only being able to depict cartoony representations of things and that we slowly developed the ability to depict things with a greater sense of representation.
But there are wonderful reliefs and other works by the same cultures depicting fish and other wildlife in a manner which is extremely convincing.
They clearly could depict reality to high degree of precision when they wanted to. So it stands to reason that these were intentional choices. Their depictions of humans must not have been about representation as much as other things.
These stylistic representations were never a sign of deficiency of skill or ability. It's our perception of them which is a sign of how we tend to prioritize graphical fidelity above other concerns.
That aside, I never noticed the relief being shared between the towers and the forge. That's very strange really. Why would the giants build the towers? What are the towers? Why are the towers? They're still a bit of a mystery.
I often think it would be nice if we still used these sorts of decorative flourishes to show our various social alignments. Not like, crests and stuff, that's royalist pablum. Just little design motifs like a pattern of shapes or floral designs which are shared among a group.
Of course, we by and large don't make anything ourselves anymore. It's one thing to do that when all the cabinets in your town come from one guy's shop. It's another thing to carve a bunch of vines into a cheap Ikea table.
Comfiest lore queen
Can somebody help me out with the timeline? How do we know Radagon's invasions of Liurnia happened at the same time as the war with the fire giants? Also, love the videos.
18:30 The tower was built after the flood, it was built as a means to elevate man to heaven to be literally and metaphorically on Gods level. It was built by the son of Noah, aka Elden John. It's a minor thing but it was less about escaping death and more elevating one self to be on God's level.
I'm sorry about your Sudoku Headaches. I hate that game.
On the real world giants concept, it depends on your view of reality. We just tend to assume that pre-modern people were like us and saw the world the same way, but there is plenty of linguistic analysis showing that even people from the Middle Ages saw the world extremely differently. It’s not that they didn’t know certain things, they were just as intelligent as us if not more so. However they very clearly could not think certain modern concepts. It is very possible to simply lack the entire mental semantics necessary for certain thoughts to occur in your mind. We are the same way today, there are ways that we see the world which supersede other weltanschaungs and we can’t “unsee” them.
Case in point, when we see an ancient king depicted as larger than other people we assume this is a symbol of their importance. But ancient people didn’t think this way. It is very possible that the importance of the king _made him appear larger to his subjects_. Our minds do not show us the images made by light striking our retinas. Everything we see is an interpretation of material reality which is filtered through our mental conceptualization.
This is not a crazy concept. We have documented proof that this happens today, when people who suffer from anorexia legitimately see themselves in a mirror as fat when they are not. It’s not unreasonable to entertain the idea that ancient people thousands of years ago could look at a normal-sized man and see him as a giant because of their mental framework for interpreting reality. The human mind is capable of some really freaky control over what today we Cartesian dualists think of as our physical body. You can see this in the rituals of some monks and records of vision quests and such. By the way those ancient people would have assumed that their view of “giants” was correct in the exact same way that today we believe our physical measurements are correct.
I've been meaning to ask someone for a while but the people I watch haven't been uploading as many videos about lore in a while, but how do you think bernahl and Alexander end up in farum azula? I mean the tarnished has to do all this legendary historical era-ending world-altering stuff as melina's companion to then get transported there from the forge of the giants once she sacrifices herself, and if not that then you need the power of an outer God of chaos that can destroy the whole world to help you out. meanwhile this weirdo edgelord and a fucking pot just show up there? hello?
18:00 Ok, no, that is not the Babel story. The Babel story is that there was a militarist strongman who FORCED everyone to be exactly the same and to work for him to expand his power. He is making them build a gigantic tower to reach “the heavens” in other words to make himself a god. You don’t have to believe in the supernatural to understand how this kind of thing could happen and be very very bad, just look at 20th century history. The Babel story is that God (however you interpret that) made the slave-subjects split into separate tribes which were not necessarily antagonistic but were incapable of this kind of mass slave-mind organization.
The Babel story also has nothing to do with the flood. That is just flat out wrong. The flood story ends in Genesis 10 when the sons of Noah go out to populate the post-deluvian world. The Babel story happens in Genesis 11 which is very clearly stated to be after the flood event.
What’s damnably disappointing is that Miyazaki, or someone at FromSoftware at least, very clearly DOES know these stories and reference them in their games, even though these aren’t from their unique cultural background. Japanese game designers know the Western cultural foundation better than actual Westerners. Not only are we completely ignorant of anyone else’s cultural historical foundations except as seen through a colonialist lens, we don’t even know our own!