i understand your points but you need to be more respectful when you're making videos like this. like, theres no need to be an asshole at 0:44, you know?
Mans got 600 subs tryna piggy back off of a creator whos done more good for a community that was on its last legs than he can do for any community😂😂😂 get a life
It totally doesn’t take that much effort to get behind the enemy and sap an Engie nest, at least assuming you have a competent team that can keep the enemy distracted, the enemy team doesn’t turn their back every once in a while, the enemy team doesn’t have a bloodthirsty Pyro, you have flank routes that aren’t absolutely flooded with projectiles , you don’t get caught in crossfire, you don’t run out of cloak because the enemy unknowingly forced you into a corner, the enemy engineer doesn’t know what a spy is, and assuming that even after all of that, you don’t just get hit by a random crit or randomly bump into someone that happened to come around the corner the same time as you. As long as all of those SUPER COMMON THINGS happen, it’s pretty easy!
(Sarcasm Self Test Complete).
Side note: Of course he’s using Dead Ringer + Kunai, that explains a lot.
the homewrecker is stupid because spychecking as pyro is the easiest job in the game. all you have to do is flail around and you'll catch him. a spy stabbing an engineer and sapping his stuff when you're playing pyro is entirely your fault because you're somehow bad at flailing around. you shouldn't have a get out of jail free for failing at something so comically easy.
On god i didnt understand half of this video due to all the gibberish an unneeded screaming. Also you know you can make vidos on other youtubers without just insulting them for no reason
I'm going to try to refute this video because many of these arguments show extreme ignorance to certain game mechanics.
Just for the first part of the video, there weren't any fallacies in your arguments but the excessive complaining about how his video style catering to noobs is ridiculous, it detracts very few viewers from his audience while largely increasing the number of noobs or even people who are completely unfamiliar with tf2 that would watch his videos.
0:52 Jonto says that he mains the hardest class in the game. He doesn't elaborate on what he means by "the hardest" but you assume that he means the one with the highest skill cap. Assuming that could be a strawman of his argument, and an unbiased debater would argue case by case for what is intended by "hardest/most difficult". Although even taking your definition of hardest, that is, the class with the highest skill cap, spy could still definitely be argued as being such, because of how difficult many of the trickstabs are, while classes like demo and soldier rely mainly on a. jumps that are generally simple and easy to pull off, and b. good predictions and airshot aim. If you watch comp sixes, soldiers and demos rely far more on getting simple jumps consistent than pulling of flashy jumps. There isn't exactly an objective answer, but I believe that there are many classes that could be argued to have the highest skillcap, especially when there are subclasses that haven't quite been fully tried out.
at 1:55 he said "other classes are generally easier," all but confirming that he is talking about how easy they are to just pick up and play, not to master.
2:16 it is a massive deal. Anyone who plays competitive games knows that a second is the longest time ever. In a second a pyro could kill a spy that's at full kunai health. I've played a good bit of engi and there have been dozens of scenarios where I lost my sentry right before I could smack it again with my wrench. I think this should be pretty self explanatory, a lot happens in a second in video games.
2:29 Yeah, looking is instant, it can take as little as a frame. And about how the spy can just stab them because their back is turned: The whole point is the pyro can kill the spy AND desap in under 2 seconds.
2:47 yes, the engi has his hands full with a spy WHILE losing all of his gear. The pyro has the spynihilator(flamethrower) on him and can desap four times as fast…
3:05 on certain maps getting behind the enemy is easier, but in chokes where sentries are usually located, all the spam makes it damn near impossible, so, yes all that work.
3:12 I believe for comedic purposes you pretended to say that all engineers are robots who never turn around. Dealing with a good engineer as spy is pretty difficult. You also trivialize stab and sap which is often very difficult because there are VARIABLES that exist that make things much harder. Yeah, it's easy to stab and sap if it's one engi who doesn't expect you, but they have 11 other players and the engi can just randomly turn around and it's over.
3:45 But the pyro doesn't have to have good positioning or evasion skills to get to that point, and he hard counters you already.
4:05 In the clip shown, the spy can do nothing. Once the sentry is back up, the spy can either attack the pyro before he brings out his flamethrower and be killed by the sentry, or attack the sentry and give the pyro ample time to full out the flamethrower.
4:25 But in that case both things are causing immediate harm.
5:32 we're getting to the part where you just seem to be ignorant about several game mechanics. The sentry does deal immense knockback to people on the ground, it generally lets you push forward at half normal speed, which is ample time for it to kill you.
6:40 Complete strawman incoming. You postulate that if added the developers will make it increase knockback from all sources. This is completely fallacious and is known as the appeal to consequence fallacy or perhaps even just the non-sequitur fallacy. I mean seriously, that is not an argument at all.
7:25 again you bring up the previous strawman, but if the weapon was added as intended then it would not change that clip at all if he was using the homewrecker. The confidence in such a poor argument is making me cringe. I hope this section at least is satire of some sort.
7:50 You might be right on this point, but saying "if something's wrong, just requeue" is completely wrong. If something is legitimately wrong, it is in accordance with right thinking to criticize it. You could say the same thing about the freaking sniper bots. "just requeue" yeah, technically there is usually one game where you could find real players. An extreme example, but equally correct.
8:10 I see what you're saying, it's a very minor issue, but that isn't actually a real argument. You can always say there are more important issues to talk about no matter the topic.
8:30 did he say he was contacting the developer team? And you made a video in response to this topic so clearly it's important to you as well.
I see what you're saying at the end of the video, that the homewrecker exists if the spy is being too much of a problem. But jonto's argument is that it's unbalanced, and you failed to really refute any part of his argument.
To close, I'm not saying you're wrong that the homewrecker is balanced, I just thought your arguments were bad. I also am an extremely unbiased party because I watch neither you nor Jonto and I have played pyro, engi, and spy a fair bit but main none of those classes.
other games with actual comp players dont have this problem tf2 has such a dead comp scene there is nobody skilled and popular enough talking about the right things instead we get some of the worst players ever talking about balancing and people eat it up because it has good editing and they sound smart
Ive always been neutral on the homewrecker cuz it always feels so pointless for me cuz u dont need it for pybro 99% of the time if ur a good pyro u can just kill all the spies going for ur engies cuz thats how hard a counter pyro is for spy and i dont really think its “unfair” cuz using the homewrecker makes u lose out on the powerjack or axtinguisher
I do believe that the Darwin and the home wrecker are nieche enough to not be a problem, but the razorback is not nieche, half of all snipers I fight against as spy have this weapon equipped, and when I backstab them once they equip it. The razorback should definitely be changed because it is very annoying. You died yourself because you had to shoot a razorback instead of backstabbing here 10:40
The irony is that even if the weapon was unbalanced and not just niche / annoying in some scenarios, the balance fix that makes sense is to give it a slower draw speed to make it a thoughtful commitment to save the sentry or fight the spy. These ideas Jontohil comes up with are like the equivalent of writing balance changing fanfic
Guys is he closer to a discord mod or to a reddit mod ?
BLA BLA WHO CARES ABOUT TF2 MOVE ON THIS GAME SUX!!!
tf2 PGE 😅😅😅
Jhon2hil might be the best spy ever idk idc
NEW JONTOHIL MEDIA 🤩
Can you do a video of you playing spy
This vid was super skibbidy on Ohio Mega goon
obama made spy
0:37 Pyro only has a limited range with his flamethrower 🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
chungus video smh
is pybro allowed in forwards?
Your video are so bad im gonna faint
30 lerp?
GregFrags PLEASE make a 3 hour video essay on retarded TF2bers PLEASE!!!
i understand your points but you need to be more respectful when you're making videos like this. like, theres no need to be an asshole at 0:44, you know?
watched for 0.5 seconds your wrong bad opinion 👎👎👎 get better microphone noob UGH 👎
Who’s your medic at 5:58 YouTube nailbite
Mans got 600 subs tryna piggy back off of a creator whos done more good for a community that was on its last legs than he can do for any community😂😂😂 get a life
Bro Thinks Hes Literally Soundsmith
Yeah
It totally doesn’t take that much effort to get behind the enemy and sap an Engie nest, at least assuming you have a competent team that can keep the enemy distracted, the enemy team doesn’t turn their back every once in a while, the enemy team doesn’t have a bloodthirsty Pyro, you have flank routes that aren’t absolutely flooded with projectiles , you don’t get caught in crossfire, you don’t run out of cloak because the enemy unknowingly forced you into a corner, the enemy engineer doesn’t know what a spy is, and assuming that even after all of that, you don’t just get hit by a random crit or randomly bump into someone that happened to come around the corner the same time as you. As long as all of those SUPER COMMON THINGS happen, it’s pretty easy!
(Sarcasm Self Test Complete).
Side note: Of course he’s using Dead Ringer + Kunai, that explains a lot.
good bait
hello
the homewrecker is stupid because spychecking as pyro is the easiest job in the game. all you have to do is flail around and you'll catch him. a spy stabbing an engineer and sapping his stuff when you're playing pyro is entirely your fault because you're somehow bad at flailing around. you shouldn't have a get out of jail free for failing at something so comically easy.
there's no way this is not rage bait
Niggas be so bored they create problems that don't exist
On god i didnt understand half of this video due to all the gibberish an unneeded screaming. Also you know you can make vidos on other youtubers without just insulting them for no reason
I haven't touched tf2 videos in a few good months why is your mic poopy
I'm going to try to refute this video because many of these arguments show extreme ignorance to certain game mechanics.
Just for the first part of the video, there weren't any fallacies in your arguments but the excessive complaining about how his video style catering to noobs is ridiculous, it detracts very few viewers from his audience while largely increasing the number of noobs or even people who are completely unfamiliar with tf2 that would watch his videos.
0:52 Jonto says that he mains the hardest class in the game. He doesn't elaborate on what he means by "the hardest" but you assume that he means the one with the highest skill cap. Assuming that could be a strawman of his argument, and an unbiased debater would argue case by case for what is intended by "hardest/most difficult". Although even taking your definition of hardest, that is, the class with the highest skill cap, spy could still definitely be argued as being such, because of how difficult many of the trickstabs are, while classes like demo and soldier rely mainly on a. jumps that are generally simple and easy to pull off, and b. good predictions and airshot aim. If you watch comp sixes, soldiers and demos rely far more on getting simple jumps consistent than pulling of flashy jumps. There isn't exactly an objective answer, but I believe that there are many classes that could be argued to have the highest skillcap, especially when there are subclasses that haven't quite been fully tried out.
at 1:55 he said "other classes are generally easier," all but confirming that he is talking about how easy they are to just pick up and play, not to master.
2:16 it is a massive deal. Anyone who plays competitive games knows that a second is the longest time ever. In a second a pyro could kill a spy that's at full kunai health. I've played a good bit of engi and there have been dozens of scenarios where I lost my sentry right before I could smack it again with my wrench. I think this should be pretty self explanatory, a lot happens in a second in video games.
2:29 Yeah, looking is instant, it can take as little as a frame. And about how the spy can just stab them because their back is turned: The whole point is the pyro can kill the spy AND desap in under 2 seconds.
2:47 yes, the engi has his hands full with a spy WHILE losing all of his gear. The pyro has the spynihilator(flamethrower) on him and can desap four times as fast…
3:05 on certain maps getting behind the enemy is easier, but in chokes where sentries are usually located, all the spam makes it damn near impossible, so, yes all that work.
3:12 I believe for comedic purposes you pretended to say that all engineers are robots who never turn around. Dealing with a good engineer as spy is pretty difficult. You also trivialize stab and sap which is often very difficult because there are VARIABLES that exist that make things much harder. Yeah, it's easy to stab and sap if it's one engi who doesn't expect you, but they have 11 other players and the engi can just randomly turn around and it's over.
3:45 But the pyro doesn't have to have good positioning or evasion skills to get to that point, and he hard counters you already.
4:05 In the clip shown, the spy can do nothing. Once the sentry is back up, the spy can either attack the pyro before he brings out his flamethrower and be killed by the sentry, or attack the sentry and give the pyro ample time to full out the flamethrower.
4:25 But in that case both things are causing immediate harm.
5:32 we're getting to the part where you just seem to be ignorant about several game mechanics. The sentry does deal immense knockback to people on the ground, it generally lets you push forward at half normal speed, which is ample time for it to kill you.
6:40 Complete strawman incoming. You postulate that if added the developers will make it increase knockback from all sources. This is completely fallacious and is known as the appeal to consequence fallacy or perhaps even just the non-sequitur fallacy. I mean seriously, that is not an argument at all.
7:25 again you bring up the previous strawman, but if the weapon was added as intended then it would not change that clip at all if he was using the homewrecker. The confidence in such a poor argument is making me cringe. I hope this section at least is satire of some sort.
7:50 You might be right on this point, but saying "if something's wrong, just requeue" is completely wrong. If something is legitimately wrong, it is in accordance with right thinking to criticize it. You could say the same thing about the freaking sniper bots. "just requeue" yeah, technically there is usually one game where you could find real players. An extreme example, but equally correct.
8:10 I see what you're saying, it's a very minor issue, but that isn't actually a real argument. You can always say there are more important issues to talk about no matter the topic.
8:30 did he say he was contacting the developer team? And you made a video in response to this topic so clearly it's important to you as well.
I see what you're saying at the end of the video, that the homewrecker exists if the spy is being too much of a problem. But jonto's argument is that it's unbalanced, and you failed to really refute any part of his argument.
To close, I'm not saying you're wrong that the homewrecker is balanced, I just thought your arguments were bad. I also am an extremely unbiased party because I watch neither you nor Jonto and I have played pyro, engi, and spy a fair bit but main none of those classes.
classic tf2 youtuber trying to balance something literally 5 people complain about 🔥 and somehow all 5 are going schizo in this comment section 🔥
other games with actual comp players dont have this problem
tf2 has such a dead comp scene there is nobody skilled and popular enough talking about the right things instead we get some of the worst players ever talking about balancing and people eat it up because it has good editing and they sound smart
Heavy hardest class sandwich air shots are so hard to get
jonto has atleast 200000 reddit karma
you have never played spy.
Ew get out of my recommended, nasty seagull human
least obvious ragebait
honestly, have no idea if this is fr or not, 8/10 ragebait
bait used to be believable
you're just a rage baiter bro. You just made this video to make people mad. Get a life kid. Stop rage baiting smch.
But seriously, the content supply of TF2 is running out, so time for more meaningless weapon rebalance videos
I know this is Ironic but I still hate you
loud incorrect buzzer https://youtu.be/SkZuyZETpA0?t=67
Ive always been neutral on the homewrecker cuz it always feels so pointless for me cuz u dont need it for pybro 99% of the time if ur a good pyro u can just kill all the spies going for ur engies cuz thats how hard a counter pyro is for spy and i dont really think its “unfair” cuz using the homewrecker makes u lose out on the powerjack or axtinguisher
I do believe that the Darwin and the home wrecker are nieche enough to not be a problem, but the razorback is not nieche, half of all snipers I fight against as spy have this weapon equipped, and when I backstab them once they equip it. The razorback should definitely be changed because it is very annoying. You died yourself because you had to shoot a razorback instead of backstabbing here 10:40
how many pyro's run the homewrecker though, like i rarely see it and when i do its mostly forgotten about in the scenario its useful for
Hey guys look at this cool emoji 😶🌫️
Dislike
bait used to be believable
The irony is that even if the weapon was unbalanced and not just niche / annoying in some scenarios, the balance fix that makes sense is to give it a slower draw speed to make it a thoughtful commitment to save the sentry or fight the spy. These ideas Jontohil comes up with are like the equivalent of writing balance changing fanfic
ur ragebaiting kid get out of my recommended lil bro 🥱🥱🥱🥱