Mover and I chat about the AT-802U Sky Warden purchase. The Air Tractor joins the Air Force! Cool plane and mission, did we buy to many? What do fast jet pilots know about slow, prop-job, mud movers? Tons of opinions in this one!
Every Monday at 8PM ET, Mover (F-16, F/A-18, T-38, 737, helicopter pilot and wanna be race car driver) and Gonky (F/A-18, T-38, A320, dirt bike racer, and awesome dad) discuss everything from aviation to racing to life and anything in between. Send your topic ideas to cwlemoine at cwlemoine.com!
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I flew the Air Tractor for 5 years spraying. Was watching a couple of video's of what appeared to be Military Pilot training in the Warden and they ground looped and balled up a couple of them while landing. A fighter pilot would have a tough time learning what his feet are for, you fighter guy's seldom have to touch your rudder pedals, with these, you NEVER take you feet off the rudder pedals! It's real seat of the pants flying! Had a friend of mine had an ultralight. His son in law was an Air Force F-16 pilot and dang near killed himself in it! He said he would never get in it again! Ha! How ironic!
That thing is sooo cool. I would love to fly/fight it. We should get them in the Army.
Prop driven, light attack with ejection seats….OV-10 Bronco has entered the chat.
30 million a pop seems like a lot for a sub 2 million dollar plane with some extra kit tacked on.
I look at this and I wonder are they going to spray the enemy with some kind of pesticides.
Cost to operate Sky Warden is around only $900 per flight hour versus around $22,000 per flight hour for the A-10! Sky Warden is a no brainer. Reminds me of Rapid Dragon in the sense that it's a rare example of the US military scoring a lot of bang for the buck by leveraging something cheap that the US already has — as opposed to throwing billions at another exquisite, obscenely expensive platform. We need more of this kind of thing. Imagine if the USAF decided to buy 30 fewer F-15EXs leaving it with ~$3 billion to spend buying newly built P-51 Mustangs in volume. Let's suppose that by purchasing in volume it would cost the USAF roughly $1 million to replicate the WWII version without any modernization. But let's assume that the USAF instead buys updated versions that include an additional two million dollars worth of technology invented after WWII. Supposing each P-51 had a fly away cost of $3 million, then for $3 billion the USAF could by a thousand of these newly built, partially modernized P-51s! If a thousand P-51s were unleashed over a battlefield, couldn't they do FAR more damage to the enemy than the 30 F-15EXs they replaced?
Dudes in an Air Tractor call signs: Harry and Lloyd
im a 19d and i have to say there is no such thing as too much cas. i want my convoy to have something.
Watch out for the guns, they'll get ya.
0:28 Gonky outs himself as a 'FOist 🙂
Remember in WW1 if you got shot down… a crash landing was in order… the enemy picked you up… cordially provided drinks, dinner and then a ride to the FLOT the next morning!
2.2 billion and 75 aircraft is $30 million ea. who’s going to pay for it?
What kind of designation is AT-802? It doesn’t fit in any series, does it. We don’t have an AT-801.
Yeah, it was the Tucano that the Taliban got a hold of.
Paintball guns and water balloons. That’s what I think of when I look at that thing. FAC role at best, drones can handle the rest and what is the need for two guys sitting in each other’s lap like a J3. It’s like going airplane shopping at the Dollar store. I could see five of them as a POC at best.
It's the Kill-R crop duster!
29 million for an airtractor, talk about overpaying and underdelivering
I wonder how well they handle battle damage… for the most part, boll weevils don't shoot back…….
They are going to need them at the boarder.
The airplanes they gave to the T-ban was the A-29 super Tucano.
They need that many to replace those that get too full of holes to fly.
Pilotless version is probably coming.
There is a variant of the AT-802 that fights fires and they are amazing in British Columbia
It is an armed crop duster. It is a brilliant aircraft.
We gave the Taliban a bunch of the Super Tucanos. Saw a few of the 530FF attack helicopters I helped build thrown in there too.
They even type classified it as OA-1K Sky Warden … the same A designation used for the A-1 Skyraider and even the letter follows the last Skyraider, the A-1J Skyraider.
im sure some politicians family member owns this company and has now gotten rich off of this purchase..Nothing but a waste of taxpayers money..Lets take care of the homeless and hungry in this country before we waste any more money on the military which quite frankly we dont even need as long as our citizens are armed.
Imagine joining the USAF thinking you'll be flying the latest & hottest, and then get put into one of these … contraptions
That guy in the gray shirt/blue shirt/stone color shirt, I can’t read.
Have lots of money, will throw! 😀
Looks like it has an armored cockpit.
Maybe, SOCOM has a busy schedule. They're active real world allllll the time…
Flying piece of junk. Money would of been better spend on a drone IMO.
It looks like the flying version of "The Homer" car from the Simpsons… a warthog of a plane and not in the BRRRRRRT sense.
America made a stupid choice. They decided to go American. The best choice was embraer
Why is it so expensive? even at 30 million that still sounds like a lot. Sounds to me like the Navy and Air Force need a budget increase with all the drama popping off around the world. Especially when one country China keeps telling us they want war and soon.
1960s : The North Vietnamese and Vietcong have heavy firepower, we need CAS jets with lots of armour and firepower.
2010s : The insurgents lack heavy firepower, A-10 is too overkill, we need a cheap cropduster plane with light armament.
$29.3 mil a unit?
Obviously a lot of maint and facilities costs in there?
So Dusty crophooper not only can operate in carriers but now he goes all warthog too
Should have dusted of the plans for the A-1 Skyraider instead.
The reason they want 75 is because they're taking over both from the surveillance aircraft/drones doing long – loiter observation missions, plus the armed drone support mission (like the Reaper/Predators), and providing a level of CAS the A-10s do badly. The stall speed is significantly lower, the aircraft is armored enough to be tolerant of your typical hillbilly small arms (7.62×39, 12.7 Dshk, 7.62x54R), and there's enough external stores options to deal with most COIN missions. The max payload is 8,000 pounds of fuel, weapons and sensors which is about half of its max gross weight. There's ballistic glass windows, cockpit and engine armor (the bathtub approach), self-sealing fuel lines and tanks, and a fuel dump feature. There are no ejection seats, instead the cockpit is a energy-absorbing roll cage that can support the full aircraft weight in case of a roll over on landing, and the 5-point restraints have auto-inflating air bags and sit on energy absorbing crash seats. There are mountings for Chaff/flare dispensers and missile warning sensors. 11 external hardpoints (the A-29s have 5, OV-10 was 7 and A-10s are also 11). The standard payload is proposed as a pair of ATK 7 tube pods and a MX-15/MX-20 sensor pod.
https://802u.com/
The Air Tractor is a very capable aircraft. I've watched those thing do some crazy stuff on fires for years. The military would be well served to keep building those. Here in the mountains of NW Montana they operate very well. I have a bunch of video's of them doing retardant drops at tree top level in extremely rugged terrain. They are impressive. Fire aviation is a lot of fun, but very dangerous. I miss doing it though.
Now designated the OA-1K for AFSOC. 25 birds is essentially 3 squadrons of 25; with some of those being an RTU. When you look at the specs for its competitor darlings, such as the A-29 or AT-6 or even an OV-10, the Air Tractor was the best choice with respect to total load and loiter time, plus the wings come off for transport in a C-5. Although a hot seat didn't make the cut due to time & budget constraints in the competition process, I wouldn't be surprised if one isn't fielded down the road and I hope that TCTO is made a priority before there are fatalities. It fills a niche and isn't all bad. Overall cost is an issue, as is the TBD training pipeline for tailwheel transition. If the AF chooses its path wisely, there is a lot of potential here.
They purchased so many because they intend them to find their way into domestic service with the FBI/ATF etc.
You’re thinking the A-29
At 3:14… So True! That's what this is, and as-such, Could be taken-down by a Curtiss P-6 Hawk from 1924! Beyond stupid, just pure idiocy. Either the Grumman Mohawk, or Rockwell Bronco should be the 'type' of plane put into this role. Granted, both of those are bigger, and T-prop twins, but both have Proven combat records, robust MILITARY-Grade airframes, and would certainly be able to be 're-wired' to fit new observation and weapon systems that this Role might require.
Hah! Too many? They are consumables!
Marry Christmas 🎄