This strange, largely forgotten attempt to reboot the Prince of Persia series is more ambitious than you might remember… and just as flawed. Let’s talk about character growth, open-world story structure, and even a bit about game difficulty.
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Music:
Arcade Academy, by Pixel Head –
https://soundcloud.com/pixel-head/arcade-acadmey
Prince of Persia Soundtrack, by Stuart Chatwood & Inon Zur
Art:
Jimi Bonogofsky-Gronseth – http://www.jkbono.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/gamesaslit
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Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/gamesaslit101
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When I played it on release, the Hunter felt "bad" even in his animation. Back then, I thought that maybe he was done somewhat early in the game's production and nobody had time to go back to him, hence why he feels unfinished in the game despite being heavily featured in the marketing.
Great work, I'm pretty impressed how well this one went. Welcome back
Really nice analysis! I clicked on the video thinking it was about Sands of Time, but instead I learned about the 2008 game I never played. It’s quite interesting as you show how the game is about each protagonist being unwilling to change and the tragedy that results from that. Thanks for much for telling us this story worth telling!
Good to see a new video!
1 ) I think for all of its edge and tonal whiplash, WW has some of the best gameplay in the series and is an improvement on SoT mechanically.
2) 2008 Prince I find is far less charming or interesting than SoT era Prince. He really felt like Nathan Drake invaded another series and was out of place. Elika is hardly likable herself, she is dull and robotic when compared to Farah, so if you don't like the main leads the game becomes a chore to get through.
3) 2008 game has awesome presentation and pretty great platforming, but I think the reptitiveness in combat and "mission" structure sour it. Its like a 7/10 with a 9/10 artstyle.
So glad you are still making content
Man I remember back in college I had this friend from Iran and he loved the Sands of Time trilogy. We used to play it together.
Then when this reboot came along he was so angry about it like it was a never-ending barrage of how much this game sucked compared to Sands of Time that I simply did not have the energy to give it a chance.
Besides I had a dissertation to worry about.
I remember when this game first came out, my brother watched a first 10-15 minutes of gameplay video from X Play, I absolutely fell in love with the dialogue, it made me wish I could play it. I'll never get over the prince's lovable lines "carpets THIS THICK!!"
I guess I better play the damn game before watching this.
Really miss these videos. Hope someone throw the money like with Metroid Other M to do Prince of Persia The Warrior Within xD
I love the art style of this game, and it had enough potential that (I feel) could have been built upon to make the sequel a very successful game. It's a shame that the game's substance couldn't back up its style.
Imagine if this game come in 2023
I love your videos man, always a treat when you release one!
cracks knuckles
Okay, so, before we proceed, the video on Zoroastrianism. This is the best video I found which provides an introduction to the faith whilst also having references which are helpful for further reference reading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z30Z5cOR5BA
Now, regarding stagnation. That ending where the princess gives her life to grant life to her kingdom, and then the prince sacrifices it all just to bring her back… somehow it reminds me of The Sands of Time. There, the prince does technically grow… only to remain the same in the end, since he shares all that happened in that game to her, and even though he has feelings for her, he isn't exactly growing further than "I can't have the girl, and I can't attack her kingdom, so I'll just shift the focus elsewhere". And that's important: technically, we know the kingdom is still going to attack other places, because it is implicitly understood.
I personally like Prince of Persia, I think that the dialogue system works in its favor, and I think that the overall themes work because it is inclined towards Zoroastrianism and some elements of the sort of mysticism associated with the areas that had a significant Zoroastrianism influence.
Good stuff. Keep it up.
Funny. Everyone complained about the death mechanic where nowadays, almost every game treats death like this.
As an Iranian, I have to say that this game feels and looks more Persian than previous games, despite all of them using the same or related sources for their stories. The Sands of Time and The Two Thrones look too Arabic, and from memory, The Warrior Within's aesthetics is like a combination of Middle Eastern/Indian and European architecture. Also, The Sands of Time trilogy mainly uses an Iranian epic poem called "Shahname" as inspiration, which itself is inspired by Zoroastrian mythology. In "Shahname" Dahaka is called "snake shoulder" and to describe him simply, he is literally the same as Jackie Estacado from The Darkness franchise. But in Zoroastrian, he is more of a dragon and he is the son of Ahriman.
Hope I could be of help.
I never played this game, but with your explanation I now think I would have really liked it.
so glad you talked about this game, i actually consider it one of my favorites of all time. playing it on a whim as a kid ended with it really severely affecting me thanks to that shocking kind of ending, to the point that i still have my original copy and replayed it about a year ago. i'm definitely biased but i feel it does the "negative ending" a lot better than games like tlos, mostly because it is such an insular story by comparison. almost fable-like.
anyway thanks for spending a video discussing it, i never thought i'd see the day it got the attention it deserves!
My strongest memory of this game was the trailer, because it had a Sigur Ros song in it.
Now do analysis of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R series
I overall enjoyed this video. I did not enjoy where you called the discourse of casualization petty. It's not exactly that black and white. If a game is designed from the get go to be 'easy' then that's 100% fine and there is no argument. If the game has some form of complexity and that gets removed to appeal to a broader, casual audience, then that is a problem.
Again, enjoyed the video.
This was really fun! I liked your approach of breaking things down into how the story was structured, really helped me to see how, from a narrative perspective, the writers wanted these two characters to relate to each other
Dear Professor, I hadn't seen you for a while. It's a pleasure to see and hear you again, and you're looking super good.
I feel like the warrior arc may have been more interesting if the Prince had understood the decision, even if not empathize, as the king was taking matters into his own hands, and Elica though him evil, like she did the repurposed aqueducts.
I don't understand your hatred of Warrior Within, it's good, it improved upon what Sands of Time did. It's probably the best of the trilogy. Two Thrones is good too but it was a bit rushed and they changed what they had planned originally, it's not on the same level of quality of Sands of Time and Warrior Within. The whole trilogy is good anyway, it's one of the best sagas in gaming.
My favorite is Prince of Persia 1. I like the sequel "The Shadow and the Flame" too but not as much as I love POP1, and I'm sad there never was a "prince of persia 3" to close the original trilogy.
POP3D is horrible, it sucks, it's an unplayable disaster and an example of a reboot done wrong.
this 2008 reboot is crap too, it shouldn't have been called "prince of persia", it's a disgrace to the name.
and I never played "forgotten sands" but the trilogy was already completed, it didn't need a fourth game so it's "meeeeh".
t
Worst ending ever condemning the world to the apocalypse just to save a girl
The game would've been SO much better both in gameplay and story if it would've just been linear. The whole "Play the sections any order you want" is pointless and only makes it so each of them feel samey. Similarly, it forces the characters to stay in the certain "line" that they cannot cross. It really hinders their development.
But at the same time, it does keep the pacing very "natural" of sorts and the development of their relationship isn't too hasty.
I haven't played the game, but just calling it "Prince of Persia" rubs me off the wrong way. It's the name of the franchise and the title of the original, NOT the plain title of a game that came out after its rightful habit of using subtitles was well established.
"Let's go over the generals in no particular order…"
– He says and goes over them alphabetically.
The outcome of the Prince's decision clear, but the "why" is presented very ambiguously, so I'm fascinated by how differently Prince of Persia 2008's ending can be read.
There is no dialogue or voiceover following Elika's death at the end of the main game, it's just the Prince doing actions, and players get to interpret it any way they want. In that sense, I don't think the "Stagnation/Prince is a Selfish Person" interpretation is wrong per se, but to ignore the environmental storytelling? Narrative > Plot. After all, you literally get to crawl all over the Ahura's lands, and following in the footsteps of the inspiration for both Ubisoft Prince series Ico, the entire area, despite maintaining a sense of majesty and scope, has fallen into ruin. Only by grace of the 'Prince's' and Elika's nigh inhuman agility are they even able to traverse from one area to the next, as time has torn down even basic footholds and, y'know, the earth on which to stand. The only place where there is even real solid ground is the area immediately surrounding Ahriman's prison, which though it is intact, is completely barren – like the demonic entity used only enough energy in the area to keep the Ahura's attention while he exerted his destructive influence on the areas just beyond the sight of the walls surrounding the prison, where the Ahura's guard was down. If Ahriman is more powerful and inevitable than gravity…
And of course, several of the General's explicit narratives all point to the Decline & Fall of civilization and those filling its ranks, and how even the most noble intentions and sacrifices in the now feed directly into Ahriman's strategy, which is that he is immortal and the world in which Ormazd imprisoned him is cut from crumbling stone and guarded by peoples whose will and numbers dwindle over time. Don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to understand that history and time are on Ahriman's side. Given all that, once the Prince watches Elika literally repeat the mistakes of the Warrior (only even worse, as the Warrior at least thought he was protecting something with roots, that was still alive – his people. Only, we know now that they were eventually dissolved), I fully agree with his actions of reclaiming Elika. The Ahura are gone now, and the prison & the tree are lightning rods just begging someone, anyone, to knock on them accidentally and unravel the whole affair. And that's even if the prison, which is being overtaken by the elements and is in a general state of disrepair, doesn't free him earlier.
Not to say that his personal feelings aren't tied into it, but both can be true at the same time. Better to use her magic powers, which have been shown to be effective against Ahriman. Putting him back into the same prison which has already failed is no different than using a band-aid to patch up a bullet wound.
*Also bears mentioning that the Prince's solution to save Elika differs from the 4 Generals. Each of them made an explicit deal with Ahriman, their souls in exchange for Ahriman's help. The Prince's deal arguably circumvents Ahriman entirely, and the price/reward is reversed. Instead of asking the world for a soul, he gives the world as price for a soul. An equivalent exchange, if you will. Worth asking also if the bright white/blue magic we see Elika infused with/wield is associated with Ahriman or Ormazd, what that says. The bright motes of light are referred to as seeds, so to plant a seed of light in Elika, a bright young woman who can freely move about and bask in the sun vs. letting a seed flower in a stone cage surrounded by darkness? Seems like one of these is more in keeping with godly intent but hey – I'm just on top of this flooded house's roof, looking at all these narrative rowboats the game keeps sending me
This has to be my favourite Prince of Persia in terms of Music and Visuals ( both graphics and animation)
I think the Farah joke is of the "funny & loving" variety myself, except perhaps to the players that it is trying to trick into thinking that this is a sequel to The Two Thrones.
please tell me someone sent him a copy of Warrior within and the 1000$
10:45
Speaking of Game criticisms and backlash related to the lack of a death mechanic; I'm reminded of a multiplayer game that came out around the time range of this game, where the entire schtick was that there was going to be a finite global livespool for everyone to use and waste as they died in multiplayer matches, to where the game would permanently shut off when all the lives are used up–for everyone. Unfortunately, the Devs released the game, maybe because of the harsh, vocal, and pinpointed backlash–which is to say a backlash that would bring the feeling to a person that "everyone" hates their decision with a passion… the game released with a lives pool that far exceeded the realistic expectation for the miniscule amount of players that ended up playing it, and the game was ever since lost to obscurity.
edit:
Okay, I just looked it up, and the game I'm thinking of is called the Flock, which released around 2015. So… scratch the timeframe portion of my post.
It's been a long time since you posted. My daughter just died and hearing your intro song took me to a time before that and was just a breath of fresh air. Something as simple as a few notes to bring my mind back a few years.
Glad you did this video! I tried the game back in the day but couldn't get through it :/ have missed your videos!
I got nostalgic for this game and looked up a video on it. Only 3 days ago this was uploaded. The sands of time are a funny thing indeed.