In this video I would like to talk about the fighter jet video that gets posted on reddit every 2 years as supposed evidence of how the current flight model in Star Citizen is sufficient.
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agreed, the flight model is unrealistic, but the developers can just claim, "its the future-tech that allows for perfect coupled movements and locked positions"
– but they change hte flight model over and over again, now racing is acting extremely odd compared to a few patches ago.
What one of the main issues is is "landing", all ships lands vertically, and allmost none of the ships has a window or anything that will give the pilot any directions on how and where to set the landing gear., you have to go to 3dr person view or look down before you land.
– well, I can do it from the seat, but I use a Tobii eye tracker, that allows alot more awareness but its still not perfect.
I have recently got myself a hotas system and it's more noticeable using the throttle in coupled mode, I think the issue here is analog vs digital input, maybe they should experiment with acceleration curves for digital inputs but that might create a disadvantage compared to their analogue input peers.
What's the point of this video?
Yes, there's no in atmosphere flight model right now (it's the same as in space void). Control surfaces and vtol overheat are not implemented yet.
Not only is the video and comment about the jet fighter not "feedback", this video is doing exactly what you say we should stop doing: give bad feedback. You're giving feedback about a placeholder system that isn't fully implemented yet.
In the void, you could go and give actual good feedback about how the disparity in size vs acceleration vs weapon projectile speed of ships creates a terrible ecosystem where small and fast ships will always be the meta; but you went and talked about the lack of an atmospheric flight system, which is something blatantly obvious that devs already know about.
You gotta wonder how that pilot stayed conscious… and as someone who came to SC from E:D, the flight model was extremely disappointing. At least I personally didn't feel that connection to the ship, and I don't want to buy 2 sticks and some pedals just for the chance to. I imagine all the players have very particular tastes in different areas of the game, and SC players are very active, so the feedback is going to be extremely contradictory. But I suspect the bigger problem is they're just not prioritizing the issue, which admittedly isn't exactly easy to resolve.
I have yet to see any good changes to the core of the game. player movement/shooting still janky since 10 years ago. fucking missiles still make no sense a decade in, and the fact that they built a game before getting their core feel/movement was set in stone is just baffling.
All-directional thrusters on a big ships seems to be a bit more powerful to make these small movements look realistic. However if ships will be sluggish as everyone wants, think about how you would stop them from 1km per second in space with those engines.
Any sense of weight or scale just disappears with these arcade style non realistic immediate and quick movements of big ships, also likely makes a balance problem since these reasonable should be lumbering and slow and not just spin around like a dime… Also these tiny thrusters that keep the huge ships airborn in heavy atmosphere dont look impressive, they could blast a bit more so it looks heavier.
Your last example is 'decoupled'… The clip in with the C2 is 'coupled' mode isn't it? I don't really see a huge problem. they're just two different modes.
A bit more inertia in SC might make it a bit more "realistic". But I wouldn't remove the coupled mode completely from the game.
In the end it's just a game…
Don't get me wrong, the jet analogy is certainly not perfect and I sorta mis the flight model before they came out with MM. And in all honesty, most of the time I'm in coupled mode myself.
I agree with this. Often times it doesn‘t feel like moving a many tons heavy spaceship through atmosphere but rather like dragging a model through the scene in Blender.
The fact that that the biggest no-lifers cry the loudest on spectrum doesn't help, either… CIG has a MASSIVELY skewed view from that…
Eat the Evocati! 😀
No Inertia and instant maximal thrust by digital keys is part of what makes it look bad.
Its not a moder jet, its soviet jet. Think about it. And in last, the russian game 😅
12 years later…. 🤣 Thanks spongebob.
I have seen ZERO evidence of any aerodynamic flight model in this "game". Who are the cultists trying to kid?
Sorry but the SC community would riot if they add any complexity to atmo hovering, specially if you take away the ability of hovering nose down
The C2 isnt "flying". They are all using thrusters. In this universe the devs have decided that thrusters are capable of these kinds of maneuvers. You seem to be just asking for a different game entirely. Also, the guy pointing to a a russian fighter jet to bolster his argument is off base too.
It's insane to me that the fix for this is so straightforward, yet the won't touch it: Maneuvering thrusters are too strong. They always have been. CIG have even said they know they are. Just for flexibility in ship design, I'm willing to give them that the maneuvering thrusters should only be capable of maintaining a hover in level flight. But the moment the pilot noses down the ship should be drifting forward. Thrusters that small should not be able to move the ship in any direction at the same force, regardless of gravity.
CIG wants ground vehicle gameplay to become more prominent and useful, but they refuse to introduce the flight mechanics to make them actually necessary. This company is too big. There are too many cooks in the kitchen. Too many different visions. Chris Roberts doesn't seem to actually know what he wants.
The incompetence and lack of cohesive, realistic vision makes me so angry. We've gone from the vision of the kickstarter ("SC will be the best damn space sim!") to a game where the only sim elements are….entirely unrealistic food and water requirements. I want the game to be good, but it just isn't.
I really need to stop consuming SC content lol
A ship hovering almost completely still with that kind of thruster tech mixed with a computer definetly isn't unreasonable. A sudden gust of wind would be able to shift the ship a bit before it adjusts but thats about it aside from extreme atmospherics. With things like overheating, the implementation/return of atmospheric effects, and ideally some sort of "landing mode" mfd ui; I imagine it should turn out quite well.
I ask "friendly" and what is your point?
In the new flight model this will lead to a catastrophe, because as soon as "areodynamics" play a role you need the VTOL engines, which are currently only there for show purposes… the new ships, especially the ZEUS, are already demonstrating well how they have problems taking off or maintaining altitude in slow flight without VTOL, but there is still a lot of work to be done before this works reasonably well
I do agree. While I feel like RCS thrusters are part of the reason why star citizen ships act the way they do, mass seems to be completely irrelevant, ships (especially the starlifter) feel like they have no mass whatsoever and that shows in the direct movement changes. I get that coupled mode is supposed to be an easy alternative for decoupled mode but all momentum is ignored, even in that mode. Flaying in atmosphere should have serious consequences on the pilots behaviour
Are flight surface mechanics not still planned?
100 agreed, but the direction they seem to be taking is trash.
Since they removed the first flight model they went for simplier but worse moddels, forgetting essential forces.
What you ddemonstratedd is simply power management, where a % of thrust is appliedd to sustentation, thus leaving not much to manouvering.
I wish they'd implement that, but either they are late, or have shitty direction.
(sorry my d key is fucking up)
You're comparing modern day jet planes with space ships that are supposed to be made a thousand year later.
Yeah it doesn't need to be fully realistic, I just feel like they went to far the other direction. Gunnery felt ok last patch, and it would have felt better with the faster speeds. Gunnery ranges for larger ships should have the option of reaching out BVR, but it should be relatively ineffective. ,(made a video on this years ago). Sniper mode for every fighter is a stupid gameplay decision though. We'll see what they do with it after they rush out Pyro. Whatever they decide I hope it's better than this.
yea lets bring this up again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kroEgSAV8xA&ab_channel=BlackMaze
Mastermodes pretty much ruined it for me. I uninstalled since it went live.
It is not that the flight model is turned off, the problem is really that IFCS is too good. It counters any wind effects within the frame time of the wind effect. The second reason is that all ships have 5+ g's of thrust. With gravity only 1g, well, you get perfectly rock-steady ships. Of course, with less acceleration it becomes painful to turn in space where you have no atmosphere to dig your wings into.