We don’t usually think about music we dislike, but I think it’s worth considering healthy ways to react to the idea that there will always be masterpieces whose much lauded greatness simply eludes us–and that’s perfectly fine.
49 thoughts on “Music Chat: How to Dislike Great Music”
Hello from Barcelona There was a time when I couldn't live without Bach's music. I became obsessed with it and started to build a vast collection of CDs. Also, I couldn't miss any performance of the St. Matthew Passion or the Mass in B minor at the beautiful Palau de la Música Catalana in Barcelona. I will always treasure my Bach collection, and it will surely increase as time goes by. But, finally, I realized there's much more outside the Bach box. The videos you allude to in this program were the first ones I saw when I discovered your channel, and I must say I understood you very well, I laughed a lot and enjoyed them very much. I've been an addict to your videos since then. Thank to them I've got all the Ormandy's and Szell's collections, among many other recommendations; great discoverings I keep listening day by day. Thank you very much.
I like a lot of Bach but much of it has no effect on me at all. The same with Mozart: most of his sonatas leave me cold, but he is still my favourite composer. It took me a long time to love and 'understand' Mahler.
I have some ideas for videos, or video series: 1. If you like X you should try Y. (X could be anything: a composer, a conductor, a musical work, an orchestra, an ensemble, an instrumental player, a singer, a label, a recording engineer, etc.) 2. Classical music for people who love genre X. 3. Music of genre X for people who love classical music. Would you consider making videos of any of these kinds?
Simply speaking, I enjoy listening and finding new things in what is essentially an unlimited supply of great music. If I find something I don’t like, I don’t worry about it. I just go to something else. I don’t cast judgements on what others may like.
Your dead on right about this subject which carries into every area of life . I can sit down with a cup of coffee and just enjoy the music because it brings satisfaction and enjoyment into my life and that's the bottom line. Well put.
I will never forget the rash of comments that met your 30+ second overview of Boulez's works–tossing a clump of them to the side; yes , a sense of humor is very important.
On Bach again: I sometimes hear 'clever, knowlegable' people who never listen to classical music or don't like it say that they do, however, like Bach, but after testing them you find they know very little Bach at all. They are usually literary people, strangely enough.
Nothing on earth speaks more LOUDLY and succinctly about a fragile, insecure and "I think I'll love & defend – to the death! – Beethoven's Missa solemnis music because "X" critic-magazine-forum praised it to the heavens!" personality than said person's reaction to a negation of their cherished beliefs. The Bruckner-Mahler-OPERA cultists-crazies are out there, and their knives are out!
"De gustibus non est disputandum" so true in Latin and today. Thanks for the video. As always, I appreciate the careful way you lay out the criteria for your heartfelt statements. In his book The Grand Tradition, Steane followed a similarly careful approach to singers. I would add that the process by which something becomes a classic is the same as that for reference recordings: an opinion coalesces. But just as you so often observe that we don't have to like the reference recordings, I am not surprised to hear you say that we don't need to love every classic.
Haha. Some people on the internet make me lose hope in the future of our species. You, my friend, are not one of them. Far from it. You are logical, fair, objective and unpretentious. And funny as hell. I thought it charming how open and honest you were about your opinions on Bach and lieder. I know you didn’t make this video to rally people on your side or seek approval, but I am a hundred percent behind you and since hearing your opinions on a variety of matters including your stance on minority composers and artists, I’ve decided I will follow you wherever you go, sir. 🫡
BTW I hope you don’t mind me calling you friend. 😊 I always like when you refer to us as such.
I like your analysis of composers and performances and recordings, whether it is to show what you like or don't like about them. It's like sitting down with a glass of wine with someone knowledgeable and parsing music. Sometimes I have an actual glass of wine when I watch your videos. I have had my mind changed about composers and compositions when introduced to especially good performances.
I have a pair of boxing gloves in the car for whenever I risk telling the truth about how I feel about… Brahms and The Beatles. People say the same thing about both of them, "that music changed everything", "it was a revolution", "it influenced everything". Cool, granted. I just find their music so unrelatable most of the time. I like passion, sangue, inspiration, a little rust.
They're great, I recognize their influence. Just deal with it if I yawn from time to time when their grandiosity is being displayed.
What a validating talk. I feel like a fraud sometimes because I don’t care for The Rite of Spring. Oftentimes, I feel like there is a “correct answer” when someone asks what your favorite composer is (i.e. Beethoven, Bach, Mozart). It’s so exhausting to encounter feigned intellectualism.
Dave, you nailed it again. I love your attitude about music, and also your musical taste. Nowadays, you are my musical guru. Greetings from Mexico-Tenochtitlan, capital city of the aztecs.
This is indeed cathartic. Here and there I’ve heard you express this sentiment and it was definitely worth elaborating upon. I thought I knew something about classical music before finding your channel; happily I was wrong and found there was so much more than I could have ever guessed. Through you, I have so many new favorites; Atterberg being the most recent of them, btw. I have also listened to things I found not to like so much. Oh well, still worth it to explore. Though I’m not sure you would share my taste on this, I had your personality in mind when confessing to some of my orchestra mates that the Brahms symphonies kind of bore me. I felt like a heretic as a small-time horn player given how important they are to the repertoire. Funnily enough, all they really said in response was that our next season opens with Brahms first. Anyway, though some of my previous comments may have been stupid, you are one of my few favorite treasures on this platform.
As one person commented, classical music is subjective, sometimes very subjective. I started playing the piano when I was seven, back in the early 60s, and I quickly became to love classical music. It quickly grew from piano music to orchestral, but I didn't "get" chamber music. It wasn't until my doctoral studies in my mid 30s that I started to appreciate and love it. I also have to say that I am an eclectic when it comes to what i like, and was one of those weird persons that loved Mahler since high school, as well as Bruckner, but I am not a fanatic about wanting to know about every edition. Some of his changes were for the better. I also love Shostakovitch, but really can't get into Prokofiev much, but that is just me. Through listening to your videos, I now love Haydn symphonies. On the other hand, Mendelssohn I have a hard time with, except his chamber music. I also love the English composers from Stanford and Parry to RVW ( I own a lot of his works). I also have a large number of Russian Orthodox choral CDs. When I hear a lot of Baroque instrumental on the radio, I think of a sewing machine because of the continual fast rhythms (am I the only one who has thought that 🤔). We all have our favorites, some have hundreds, some not so many. Let's not condemn others who don't share our taste.
Yet another great and entertaining video, Dave. Just curious, though, in relation to your video on Composer We Could Do Without: did anyone argue in support of Wuorinen… 😄?
Dear David Hurwitz, I've been watching your videos for quite a long time and finally I decided to become an inside subscriber. I enjoy so much your comments and reviews. Although I disagree with you sometimes (specially regarding Celibidache, but I think he was not a conductor for the recording world), many times I feel absolutely at home with your remarks. For instance, I think no critic has ever spoken so well about the virtues of Leonard Bernstein, whom I worship. And your views about the clichés of his supposed exaggerated style have helped me a lot to shape my own ideas and intuitions. I also share your dislikes of people like Thielemann. But most important, I'm learning so much about recordings I didn't know. Lately, I've been listening to your ideal cycles of Dvorak, a composer I love, and they are absolutely fabulous. Oh that 7th by Claus Peter Flor!!! It's gorgeous. So here it is my gratitude and acknowledgment for all the pleasure, wit, wisdom and fun you give us every day. Kind regards, Andreu Jaume from Barcelona, Spain.
My wife absolute despises Barber's Adagio for Strings. She thinks it is overwrought, unsubtle and even screechy. I have told her several times that I completely disagree with her, but she gets defensive because I am a professional musician and she thinks (I guess) that I will think less of her for having this opinion. I have to admit that I don't particularly understand the opinion, but I do know that it is true that some pieces, even masterpieces, are simply not appealing to particular people because people simply have different tastes.
You risk getting stoned for saying this nowadays, if for anything, but here goes nothing: I've never particularly liked Mahler. I think his works occasionally have inventive, even brilliant details. For example, the unusual tuning of the solo violin in the second movement of the 4th Symphony creates a fascinating, alienating effect, and there are many similar examples to be found. As a great conductor, he knew how to draw fascinating effects from an orchestra. But as a whole, his symphonies are sentimental and bombastic fluff. There, I said it. I do like some of his songs, but I would never voluntarily listen to an entire Mahler symphony.
Thank you! I have been ridiculed through my performing life for disliking the first movement of Beethoven's 9th and all of his late chamber music. I can't help it! By the same token, I like come compositions that others dislike.
I don't think that disliking something means that I hate it.
I had a discussion with someone on X on a completely different topic and stated that I disliked something. The other party equated "dislike" with "hate" because a dictionary had the two as synonyms. I was accused of being a hater. I assume that this was their agenda, as I am sure that most reasonable people would NOT equate the two words.
i thought that Ten Secrets video was hilarious. The people who reacted on both sides of the Liszt issue remind me of the way many people follow politicians like religious figures. They erroneously read something into what they say and use it to confirm their own existing biases, and as an excuse to be ugly, terrible people.
Thank you Dave for the absolutely delightful talk! This filled my heart with so much love and warmth. As a young graduate student in history I’ve been much preoccupied by the problematique of honesty, sincerity and authenticity. And as a Glenn Gould fan I’ve been both puzzled and fascinated by Gould’s very peculiar dislike of Mozart, the pomposity of middle-period Beethoven, the early Romantics… and I’m not so proud to admit that I have my own Mozart and Mahler 2 problem and it’s not easy to determine the cause – be it affirming self-worth through following Gould or something much more. I’ve been following your channel for a year and you’ve taught me so much about honesty and appreciating “things as they are.” You’re a gem!❤
Quite brilliant! The trouble is so many of us define ourselves by our tastes.: it can almost structure our entire life. I was aware that my love of late Beethoven quartets as a teenager gave me some cachet, even though I was spotty, redhaired, plump and wore glasses. No one could touch me, because I felt I was a notch above them, with my liking for this music. And that went on, until I realised, actually I loved Led Zeppelin as well. Didn't like most Mozart or Haydn (coming round to bits of them now) did like Bach….Its so variable. I wanted music with a powerful emotional impact, and so the great symphonists (Sibelius, Mahler and Bruckner, Tchaikovsky) set the pattern, and the classical symphonists seemed rather boring, anodyne. One of the great benefits of getting older is not needing that external framework for my character. I can like whatever I want, without worrying about what others think. Love being introduced to more fascinating stuff through your various talks, Dave. Keep up the good work!
Welcome to our politics. There are so many who tend to find status and belonging through what others think of us. These tastes seem driven by compulsion of "should". I should means therefore you should and vice versa. I (and we) are better people because we have better taste and can display judgment!
We live in an age where we are not stuck with NPR's playlist. Not only can we own discs, we can download and access on demand. It should be an age of great sharing and great diversity. And acceptance. Why should I need to be exactly like you?
I love Bach. But also Ives and Ruggles. I love exploring. I don't want to be set in stone. To me a life well lived is to die not finished with exploring.
There are those who probably from self-esteem always have to play the alpha expert (I have known too many Ivy Leaguers). That is how they feel good about themselves. Like the Kink's Well Respected Man. Part of that is putting others down. Being accusatory rather than having a laugh over how tastes differ. I'm with Ives about not being "a g*d-da**ed sissy". But that is a personal rule. We can be different. It's all OK. And I'll give it a listen.
I've been following your channel since its early days, Dave, and you've impressed upon me from early on that it's totally okay to not "get" certain composers, certain works, or even parts of a certain work. I used to beat myself up for not "getting" certain composers and works which were deemed "great" and held in high esteem by critics and commentators. One's degree of appreciation of a certain work could simply be a function of time, mood, life circumstances, etc.
Dave, I couldn’t stop laughing when you likened Beethoven’s Grosse Fuge to “ten cattle dying”….that’s not to discount the piece entirely, but it’s something Beethoven had to get off his chest; we have to at least respect that. What did it mean for HIM; how can we— if not entirely enjoy it—at least appreciate the inspiration….Is it jesting with art?
Anyway, I THINK that I enjoy, for instance, Faure’s late Piano Quintet, but it seems to me, at least for now, that it’s quite literally for a rainy day…that is, there’s music that you can listen to during foul weather when your your mood is somewhat splenetic (in a Baudelaire’s sense?) and come to accept it as a part of life… Maybe you’ll never truly enjoy it, but if your human, you will cognitively appreciate it…. Catharsis need not necessarily ensue
Well said sir! Apparently music does not have charms to soothe the savage idiot. Or, in words attributed to John Cleese, “Some people OUGHT to be offended.”
I always take disliking music as sort of a challenge: What can I find in a work to recognize its value somehow? At the same time, well, life is short. I have to prioritize some things over others. Sometimes the path of least resistance is best – just find what you like and see where it leads you. I will say, some of my favorite composers, like Brahms, became so because I took up the challenge of trying to find the beauty. There's beauty in being able to find beauty, it's a virtuous cycle.
Thanks for this one, Dave. Personally I had a similar (you must hate) reaction when I posed the theory that Mozart's Requiem can't work because he wasn't the composer that had thought about the fact that life is finite. I was shocked, shocked to hear that I hated Mozart's music. Just not fond of turning any human being (with faults et al.) into a little god-like statue on the mantelpiece
Classical fans are tame compared to others. In the comments sections of various music I was actually physically threatened for just mild comments. One Irish guy, who prefaced it by saying he was from Belfast ('I'm a provo') told me "I'll bust yer kneecaps, mate!" I can't see a Poulenc fan doing that. The closest I came to that was when I was a composition student and encountered the 'downtown' musicians. A more snarling, dogmatic bunch I've never seen.
The last thing we should do is to be mean to someone who gives us his time and expertise. We should be very thankful that there is so fantastic a channel for us classic lovers. It has become a daily pleasure for me. Thank you, Dave! Harry
A fascinating talk. The problem starts, when one confuses his own taste with the ability of the artist. It's a big difference between "I like it" and "this is great music".
Very perceptive and smart video chat this is. I am addicted to your channel because I look for recordings to discover. I always end up being enlightened. Whether I agree with you or not, is irrelevant. I can tell you I agree 99.9% of the time! Truly the best thing about you is the open mindedness and the broadness of your scope. You actually help me open my mind. People who comment here, to disagree or bash, you don't understand the purpose of this huge public service you are doing. Indeed they are insecure, snobbish, close minded, and inflexible. So, please….keep deleting.
Thank goodness I've got broadband again and can watch wonderful videos like this. I hope those people who have posted all that bile (without actually thinking about what you've said) don't put you off keeping the channel going…
Hello from Barcelona
There was a time when I couldn't live without Bach's music. I became obsessed with it and started to build a vast collection of CDs. Also, I couldn't miss any performance of the St. Matthew Passion or the Mass in B minor at the beautiful Palau de la Música Catalana in Barcelona.
I will always treasure my Bach collection, and it will surely increase as time goes by. But, finally, I realized there's much more outside the Bach box.
The videos you allude to in this program were the first ones I saw when I discovered your channel, and I must say I understood you very well, I laughed a lot and enjoyed them very much.
I've been an addict to your videos since then. Thank to them I've got all the Ormandy's and Szell's collections, among many other recommendations; great discoverings I keep listening day by day.
Thank you very much.
I like a lot of Bach but much of it has no effect on me at all. The same with Mozart: most of his sonatas leave me cold, but he is still my favourite composer. It took me a long time to love and 'understand' Mahler.
I could never understand why Alfred Brendel, who could never be called tone-deaf, hated Rachmaninov's music, but we all have our strange biases.
I was taken in by your trashing of Liszt, I have to admit!
I have some ideas for videos, or video series:
1. If you like X you should try Y. (X could be anything: a composer, a conductor, a musical work, an orchestra, an ensemble, an instrumental player, a singer, a label, a recording engineer, etc.)
2. Classical music for people who love genre X.
3. Music of genre X for people who love classical music.
Would you consider making videos of any of these kinds?
Music is a good example of a field, where a lot of people don't realise how little they know.
Most of Bach bores me to death.
Bravo!, David!
Simply speaking, I enjoy listening and finding new things in what is essentially an unlimited supply of great music. If I find something I don’t like, I don’t worry about it. I just go to something else. I don’t cast judgements on what others may like.
Actually, the Symphonie Fantastique is not all that fantastique.
There. I’ve said it.
Come at me.
Always an enjoyment to listen to Dave expound about MUSIC.
Always pleasant, Always informative – I love this channel
Your dead on right about this subject which carries into every area of life . I can sit down with a cup of coffee and just enjoy the music because it brings satisfaction and enjoyment into my life and that's the bottom line. Well put.
Important and a timely video. One should not take oneself too seriously. Life will be better and more fun!
I will never forget the rash of comments that met your 30+ second overview of Boulez's works–tossing a clump of them to the side; yes , a sense of humor is very important.
I was one of your hecklers for your remark that Liszt was trash. My bad. I just hadn't learned to understand you yet.
On Bach again: I sometimes hear 'clever, knowlegable' people who never listen to classical music or don't like it say that they do, however, like Bach, but after testing them you find they know very little Bach at all. They are usually literary people, strangely enough.
Nothing on earth speaks more LOUDLY and succinctly about a fragile, insecure and "I think I'll love & defend – to the death! – Beethoven's Missa solemnis music because "X" critic-magazine-forum praised it to the heavens!" personality than said person's reaction to a negation of their cherished beliefs. The Bruckner-Mahler-OPERA cultists-crazies are out there, and their knives are out!
"De gustibus non est disputandum" so true in Latin and today. Thanks for the video. As always, I appreciate the careful way you lay out the criteria for your heartfelt statements. In his book The Grand Tradition, Steane followed a similarly careful approach to singers. I would add that the process by which something becomes a classic is the same as that for reference recordings: an opinion coalesces. But just as you so often observe that we don't have to like the reference recordings, I am not surprised to hear you say that we don't need to love every classic.
Haha. Some people on the internet make me lose hope in the future of our species. You, my friend, are not one of them. Far from it. You are logical, fair, objective and unpretentious. And funny as hell. I thought it charming how open and honest you were about your opinions on Bach and lieder. I know you didn’t make this video to rally people on your side or seek approval, but I am a hundred percent behind you and since hearing your opinions on a variety of matters including your stance on minority composers and artists, I’ve decided I will follow you wherever you go, sir. 🫡
BTW I hope you don’t mind me calling you friend. 😊 I always like when you refer to us as such.
I like your analysis of composers and performances and recordings, whether it is to show what you like or don't like about them. It's like sitting down with a glass of wine with someone knowledgeable and parsing music. Sometimes I have an actual glass of wine when I watch your videos. I have had my mind changed about composers and compositions when introduced to especially good performances.
I have a pair of boxing gloves in the car for whenever I risk telling the truth about how I feel about… Brahms and The Beatles. People say the same thing about both of them, "that music changed everything", "it was a revolution", "it influenced everything". Cool, granted. I just find their music so unrelatable most of the time. I like passion, sangue, inspiration, a little rust.
They're great, I recognize their influence. Just deal with it if I yawn from time to time when their grandiosity is being displayed.
Why would anyone "want" to dislike great music? Lmao 🤣
Thank you for giving me permission to scoff!
What a validating talk. I feel like a fraud sometimes because I don’t care for The Rite of Spring. Oftentimes, I feel like there is a “correct answer” when someone asks what your favorite composer is (i.e. Beethoven, Bach, Mozart). It’s so exhausting to encounter feigned intellectualism.
Dave, you nailed it again. I love your attitude about music, and also your musical taste. Nowadays, you are my musical guru. Greetings from Mexico-Tenochtitlan, capital city of the aztecs.
This is indeed cathartic. Here and there I’ve heard you express this sentiment and it was definitely worth elaborating upon. I thought I knew something about classical music before finding your channel; happily I was wrong and found there was so much more than I could have ever guessed. Through you, I have so many new favorites; Atterberg being the most recent of them, btw. I have also listened to things I found not to like so much. Oh well, still worth it to explore. Though I’m not sure you would share my taste on this, I had your personality in mind when confessing to some of my orchestra mates that the Brahms symphonies kind of bore me. I felt like a heretic as a small-time horn player given how important they are to the repertoire. Funnily enough, all they really said in response was that our next season opens with Brahms first. Anyway, though some of my previous comments may have been stupid, you are one of my few favorite treasures on this platform.
As one person commented, classical music is subjective, sometimes very subjective. I started playing the piano when I was seven, back in the early 60s, and I quickly became to love classical music. It quickly grew from piano music to orchestral, but I didn't "get" chamber music. It wasn't until my doctoral studies in my mid 30s that I started to appreciate and love it. I also have to say that I am an eclectic when it comes to what i like, and was one of those weird persons that loved Mahler since high school, as well as Bruckner, but I am not a fanatic about wanting to know about every edition. Some of his changes were for the better. I also love Shostakovitch, but really can't get into Prokofiev much, but that is just me. Through listening to your videos, I now love Haydn symphonies. On the other hand, Mendelssohn I have a hard time with, except his chamber music. I also love the English composers from Stanford and Parry to RVW ( I own a lot of his works). I also have a large number of Russian Orthodox choral CDs. When I hear a lot of Baroque instrumental on the radio, I think of a sewing machine because of the continual fast rhythms (am I the only one who has thought that 🤔). We all have our favorites, some have hundreds, some not so many. Let's not condemn others who don't share our taste.
Yet another great and entertaining video, Dave. Just curious, though, in relation to your video on Composer We Could Do Without: did anyone argue in support of Wuorinen… 😄?
Dear David Hurwitz, I've been watching your videos for quite a long time and finally I decided to become an inside subscriber. I enjoy so much your comments and reviews. Although I disagree with you sometimes (specially regarding Celibidache, but I think he was not a conductor for the recording world), many times I feel absolutely at home with your remarks. For instance, I think no critic has ever spoken so well about the virtues of Leonard Bernstein, whom I worship. And your views about the clichés of his supposed exaggerated style have helped me a lot to shape my own ideas and intuitions. I also share your dislikes of people like Thielemann. But most important, I'm learning so much about recordings I didn't know. Lately, I've been listening to your ideal cycles of Dvorak, a composer I love, and they are absolutely fabulous. Oh that 7th by Claus Peter Flor!!! It's gorgeous. So here it is my gratitude and acknowledgment for all the pleasure, wit, wisdom and fun you give us every day. Kind regards, Andreu Jaume from Barcelona, Spain.
My wife absolute despises Barber's Adagio for Strings. She thinks it is overwrought, unsubtle and even screechy. I have told her several times that I completely disagree with her, but she gets defensive because I am a professional musician and she thinks (I guess) that I will think less of her for having this opinion. I have to admit that I don't particularly understand the opinion, but I do know that it is true that some pieces, even masterpieces, are simply not appealing to particular people because people simply have different tastes.
You risk getting stoned for saying this nowadays, if for anything, but here goes nothing: I've never particularly liked Mahler. I think his works occasionally have inventive, even brilliant details. For example, the unusual tuning of the solo violin in the second movement of the 4th Symphony creates a fascinating, alienating effect, and there are many similar examples to be found. As a great conductor, he knew how to draw fascinating effects from an orchestra. But as a whole, his symphonies are sentimental and bombastic fluff. There, I said it. I do like some of his songs, but I would never voluntarily listen to an entire Mahler symphony.
Thank you! I have been ridiculed through my performing life for disliking the first movement of Beethoven's 9th and all of his late chamber music. I can't help it! By the same token, I like come compositions that others dislike.
I don't think that disliking something means that I hate it.
I had a discussion with someone on X on a completely different topic and stated that I disliked something. The other party equated "dislike" with "hate" because a dictionary had the two as synonyms. I was accused of being a hater. I assume that this was their agenda, as I am sure that most reasonable people would NOT equate the two words.
i thought that Ten Secrets video was hilarious. The people who reacted on both sides of the Liszt issue remind me of the way many people follow politicians like religious figures. They erroneously read something into what they say and use it to confirm their own existing biases, and as an excuse to be ugly, terrible people.
Thank you Dave for the absolutely delightful talk! This filled my heart with so much love and warmth. As a young graduate student in history I’ve been much preoccupied by the problematique of honesty, sincerity and authenticity. And as a Glenn Gould fan I’ve been both puzzled and fascinated by Gould’s very peculiar dislike of Mozart, the pomposity of middle-period Beethoven, the early Romantics… and I’m not so proud to admit that I have my own Mozart and Mahler 2 problem and it’s not easy to determine the cause – be it affirming self-worth through following Gould or something much more. I’ve been following your channel for a year and you’ve taught me so much about honesty and appreciating “things as they are.” You’re a gem!❤
Quite brilliant! The trouble is so many of us define ourselves by our tastes.: it can almost structure our entire life. I was aware that my love of late Beethoven quartets as a teenager gave me some cachet, even though I was spotty, redhaired, plump and wore glasses. No one could touch me, because I felt I was a notch above them, with my liking for this music. And that went on, until I realised, actually I loved Led Zeppelin as well. Didn't like most Mozart or Haydn (coming round to bits of them now) did like Bach….Its so variable. I wanted music with a powerful emotional impact, and so the great symphonists (Sibelius, Mahler and Bruckner, Tchaikovsky) set the pattern, and the classical symphonists seemed rather boring, anodyne. One of the great benefits of getting older is not needing that external framework for my character. I can like whatever I want, without worrying about what others think. Love being introduced to more fascinating stuff through your various talks, Dave. Keep up the good work!
Welcome to our politics. There are so many who tend to find status and belonging through what others think of us. These tastes seem driven by compulsion of "should". I should means therefore you should and vice versa. I (and we) are better people because we have better taste and can display judgment!
We live in an age where we are not stuck with NPR's playlist. Not only can we own discs, we can download and access on demand. It should be an age of great sharing and great diversity. And acceptance. Why should I need to be exactly like you?
I love Bach. But also Ives and Ruggles. I love exploring. I don't want to be set in stone. To me a life well lived is to die not finished with exploring.
There are those who probably from self-esteem always have to play the alpha expert (I have known too many Ivy Leaguers). That is how they feel good about themselves. Like the Kink's Well Respected Man. Part of that is putting others down. Being accusatory rather than having a laugh over how tastes differ. I'm with Ives about not being "a g*d-da**ed sissy". But that is a personal rule. We can be different. It's all OK. And I'll give it a listen.
Great presentation, Dave. It seems to me that you rationally and trenchantly hit a whole bunch of nails firmly on the head.
I've been following your channel since its early days, Dave, and you've impressed upon me from early on that it's totally okay to not "get" certain composers, certain works, or even parts of a certain work. I used to beat myself up for not "getting" certain composers and works which were deemed "great" and held in high esteem by critics and commentators. One's degree of appreciation of a certain work could simply be a function of time, mood, life circumstances, etc.
Dave, I couldn’t stop laughing when you likened Beethoven’s Grosse Fuge to “ten cattle dying”….that’s not to discount the piece entirely, but it’s something Beethoven had to get off his chest; we have to at least respect that. What did it mean for HIM; how can we— if not entirely enjoy it—at least appreciate the inspiration….Is it jesting with art?
Anyway, I THINK that I enjoy, for instance, Faure’s late Piano Quintet, but it seems to me, at least for now, that it’s quite literally for a rainy day…that is, there’s music that you can listen to during foul weather when your your mood is somewhat splenetic (in a Baudelaire’s sense?) and come to accept it as a part of life… Maybe you’ll never truly enjoy it, but if your human, you will cognitively appreciate it…. Catharsis need not necessarily ensue
When people have violent emotions about music, it’s rarely about the music.
Well said sir! Apparently music does not have charms to soothe the savage idiot. Or, in words attributed to John Cleese, “Some people OUGHT to be offended.”
I always take disliking music as sort of a challenge: What can I find in a work to recognize its value somehow? At the same time, well, life is short. I have to prioritize some things over others. Sometimes the path of least resistance is best – just find what you like and see where it leads you. I will say, some of my favorite composers, like Brahms, became so because I took up the challenge of trying to find the beauty. There's beauty in being able to find beauty, it's a virtuous cycle.
Thanks for this one, Dave. Personally I had a similar (you must hate) reaction when I posed the theory that Mozart's Requiem can't work because he wasn't the composer that had thought about the fact that life is finite. I was shocked, shocked to hear that I hated Mozart's music. Just not fond of turning any human being (with faults et al.) into a little god-like statue on the mantelpiece
Classical fans are tame compared to others. In the comments sections of various music I was actually physically threatened for just mild comments. One Irish guy, who prefaced it by saying he was from Belfast ('I'm a provo') told me "I'll bust yer kneecaps, mate!" I can't see a Poulenc fan doing that. The closest I came to that was when I was a composition student and encountered the 'downtown' musicians. A more snarling, dogmatic bunch I've never seen.
The last thing we should do is to be mean to someone who gives us his time and expertise. We should be very thankful that there is so fantastic a channel for us classic lovers. It has become a daily pleasure for me. Thank you, Dave! Harry
Danke!
A fascinating talk. The problem starts, when one confuses his own taste with the ability of the artist. It's a big difference between "I like it" and "this is great music".
Very perceptive and smart video chat this is. I am addicted to your channel because I look for recordings to discover. I always end up being enlightened. Whether I agree with you or not, is irrelevant. I can tell you I agree 99.9% of the time! Truly the best thing about you is the open mindedness and the broadness of your scope. You actually help me open my mind. People who comment here, to disagree or bash, you don't understand the purpose of this huge public service you are doing. Indeed they are insecure, snobbish, close minded, and inflexible. So, please….keep deleting.
Thank goodness I've got broadband again and can watch wonderful videos like this. I hope those people who have posted all that bile (without actually thinking about what you've said) don't put you off keeping the channel going…
Exactly! Punctum, satis.