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🕺🏻ABOUT DJ: DJ is a locomotive engineer for CSX Railroad since 1999. He has built dozens of layouts, gave presentations for model railroaders, is a YouTuber, licensed drone pilot, and a great father.
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Another great vid. Anyone who is serious about their modelling should try to find the book, "The Railroad- What It Is, What It Does", by John Armstrong. Out of print for quite some time. If you come across it, think seriously about grabbing it.
Great insights and ideas. Thanks!
The simple lay-outs are the most Attractive
Hi DJ. I understand your thinking on this layout. I don’t like switching. But sure like watching my trains run circles. This hobby has something for everyone.
I build an [H.O. on a(4'x8') I had Too Many turnouts ,track was too close to the edge.
One of my Detailed Athern GP 60, hit the concrete floor ,it was damaged☹🥵
What about a 5-turnout challenge on a (4'x8')
Awesome video, learned a lot.
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I have started so many layouts, changed my mind or had a career relocation forced on me that has caused me to have a different space each time. That caused me to start over. What I had previously didn't fit the space I had available. This happened so many times that I have lost count. I have changed scales over the years too. However, each rendition I have built I learned something. This week I tore down another layout. It was good, but I had maximized the layout space I had available to the point my lovely wife referred to it as the elephant in the man cave. The man cave is the only way out of the house to the backyard. I am currently modeling On30 steam in the 1912 time period. My current effort is rising out of the plywood I ripped this week. On my plan I am modeling an Arizona desert town in one layout. One town with switching through the town on an L shaped set of baseboards. 12' x30" and 9' x30". 5 removable boards make up the L shape. I have the railroad structures, two stall engine house, turntable, freight house and passenger station at one end. Then the town structures, dirt roads and a dry gulch. Across the gulch is the big industry, a copper mine. So, it is a company town. Past the mine is a three track stub yard with a few more industries that also can be switched. From listening to your video I think I got it right this time. Yes, it is point to point, with a lot of shuffling back and forth, but there is the opportunity to expand it on narrow shelves to go around the room if I want. Some place to go.
Never say never or always in railroading. Some where out there exists a prototype that can prove one wrong. The real railroad I model after as a guide didn't have an interchange track. It was an isolated railroad. There were two yards at the bottom of the mountain separated by a shallow river. Standard gauge on one side and narrow gauge on the other. A single standard gauge track came across to the narrow gauge side. There was passenger station, long wooden dock between the narrow gauge and the standard gauge. There was a berm that raised the narrow gauge level with the standard gauge. Man power was cheap then. Goods were moved across the dock between the two. Further back past the dock the tracks came very close so heavy loads could be moved between the standard gauge and narrow gauge boxcars. For extra heavy loads there was a self powered Pony Crane that could lift the loads between the gondolas and flatcars. Coming down from the company mining town up on the mountain were flatcar loads of 500 pound blocks of copper, heading for the big smelter in El Paso. Two blocks per car. Going up the mountain were mine stulls, coal for the smelter, supplies for the company store and workers. It was also a tourist railroad. This railroad climbed a gulch up the mountain and had five loops to gain elevation. One loop through a tunnel and four loops on trestles, so the train passed over itself 5 times on steep grades. I wish I had a space to model all those loops.
I often find myself looking at model railroads and thinking "Why would the real railroad done that." The railroad is always going to take the easiest/cheapest option when making track (or anything else). That comes back to less is more concept. I am in the middle of building a basement empire, and I have several long stretches with nothing but a main and scenery. It also makes life easier when you go to wire the layout.
This layout sure is wasting a lot of space in the middle
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Hi DJ, your friend must be a Saint – Your analysis was brutal AND so helpful! It's already getting me to re-think some things. Your mentioning that you all use the mainline as you're switching gives me more flexibility and helps me feel more "proto" when I do it (because I do it anyway 😉). Blessings & Joy Everyone! 😌💜
As always you give us food for thought, having seen railroads from the cab you are able to look outside the box a lot easier than we do. I agree with slot of what you said, I am getting ready to start my first personal layout ( I have been a member of several clubs and helped others build their layouts), to avoid the pitfall of biting of too much, I have decided to model a small section which is a yard and interchange with hand laid track in N Scale that way I will be able to do some switching while working on other sections, thanks for the idea
Thanks for the video. There is a lot wrong with that design. There is a good video covering what goes on inside a brewery here:
https://youtu.be/Dlcj4gWM5Sk
Interesting thanks for the ideas.
Several things stand out to me: 1. Where do you turn the steam engines around? There's no wye or turntable (which takes up a lot of space in both cases, but either/or would be present in a layout depicting the late steam/transition era). 2. The scope of the layout is FAR too big for the space available, which is why it seems to be too much. There would be plenty of railroad action around Rock Island or KC alone, much less the need to run across multiple states. It seems to me you could model Rock Island, IL, and maybe cross the Mississippi River into Davenport, IA, and that be more than enough to fill the space.
Looking at the satellite view, there seems like this was an area served by a LOT of rail, and the landscape has certainly changed over the decades, but the roads and building shapes are the tell. Crescent Rail Bridge leads into a wye, which gives you a place to turn steam locomotives. The west leg then goes into a yard and industrial area – including a HUGE Purina animal food plant that has been there for decades.
I would look at expanding/moving the yard ladder around the corner into the space for "Exira, IA", and have a ladder at the right end, then compressing space and have the wye lead into the corner of the layout – which puts it adjacent to the yard and a prototypical position. Spread industries around the walls and then represent Rock Island along the wall to the left of the room entry. The bridge over the Mississippi River could be the bridge over the entry.
A 2-3 track yard could represent a yard along 5th Avenue at Abbey Station (your Passenger connection) and the peninsula could represent the Rock Island Arsenal. This could be an impressive modeling opportunity that doesn't take up as much space as the planned bubble, and thus creates more aisle for operators.
The R.I. yard could be an interchange between two railroads, or just shunting locals back and forth between the two yards to serve local industries (such as Purina on one side and the Arsenal on the other). But then there could be a 2 or 3 track hidden staging yard (behind low-relief buildings or a skyboard) along the wall and around the corner behind Rock Island, giving you "off-layout" origins/destinations for trains.
Narrowing the gap along the left wall would allow for a scenic transition between the two areas.
I think this plan would focus the scope much more and make for a fun operating layout, while still having continuous running. Further, it would create two places to work back and forth between, add "off-layout" staging, and allow for a prototype-based layout that would be something to really talk about.
But that's my unsolicited two cents' worth. I hope whatever was decided makes the owner happy, because in the end that's all that matters. Thanks for sharing, DJ.
on the yard if he's doing steam he missed the water tower! and in the yard there's no maintenance for either the cars or tracks! a yard of any size will have a car shop and some track supply's (tie pile rail stack shop building etc!) around it! and an oddball car on it doesn't hurt DJ afterall how many cars get out with a hotbox flag every week? an autorack with a car crew staged around it!
Thank you to both the layout contributor and DJ. You did such a good job of taking theory and applying it operational continuity. Very grateful to the both of you.
22.40 minutes of useful ,concise,entertaining video. Inspirational.
Great insites!
I've always found it intriguing that you work for a class 1, yet you are still into model railroading and trains in general. I've not meant anybody at the railroad that is into trains. Most seem to hate them in fact. Admittedly, steam locomotives are the only thing that interest me anymore. CSX sent me updates on jobs I'd applied to with them almost 2 years ago. I found that pretty amusing.
This is an exception & not often seen but there is a rail line near by that is quite long, off the main line, but you can see all the businesses that have failed and closed except for a few along the way and at the very end. When a local comes down the line there is a caboose where the conductor rides. There is a big old GE plant that went out of business, they had a trash conversion plant to produce steam that got shutdown, there is a tire production plant that still uses occasional rail service, and there is a mile long stretch where the first half still has occasional train service but the last half mile has been converted into a greenway. But NS is still replacing ties & I can’t imagine they are doing the maintenance unless NS is making money. But off this line the businesses are either extremely close by or back up to the local line.
Your point about starting small is important. The thing people forget about when planning their basement empire is that you also have to maintain it once it is built. Cleaning track takes time, as does dusting and general maintenance – parts might break off or glue gives way over time, not to mention locomotive and rolling stock maintenance. The bigger the layout, the more time devoted to keeping it running. You might build the giant empire of your dreams, but you might find yourself a full-time maintenance person instead of operating it. Start small so you can learn what you can handle and build from there. Great video with lots of great insights. Well done.
I grew up in the Midwest and lived a good part of my life there. I'm unaware of any car float operating in the region. There are barge terminals on the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers, but those are for loading bulk commodities and not railcar ferry operations. I've been in Kansas City where there are many bridges, but no car ferry. Bridges are much more efficent than ferries for crossing the rivers in KC.
I gota call BS on the coal train loading and unloading……….in the 1950's there were still a lot of industries that only had 1 to 3 hoppers delivered…….such as small foundries, local power houses, and coal dealers………….also there were times and areas where there had been multiple industries on few tracks…….and yes there were sidings in the middle of nowhere……………1950's railroading was a lot different than what you are experienced with today DJ.
Great input as always👍🚂🇨🇦🇺🇲🚃🚃🚃🚃🙋
Do more of these! I like hearing your thought process and reading the discussions
I used to work with a former UP conductor that worked in KCK. This was a gold mine for me since I am modeling the MP in KC 1961. I would ask him various questions — probably much to his annoyance.
One day, I asked him about runaround moves. Whether or not it was true they avoided them and worked switches as trailing points out and back.
He gave me a strange look. "We just took it to the wye." He made a sweeping gesture like an orchestra conductor in 3/4 time. "Woop. Woop. Woop. Then worked the industries."
It was like a whole new world opened up. I already had a wye in my track plan between the yard and city proper, but I had placed it more to facilitate trains coming in and out of the stub yard. The fact it would be integral to the entire switching scheme really opened up the track plan.
I removed tracks that otherwise had to be left available for runaround moves which translated into 4" more depth for larger "railroad worthy" structures, turning those into second loading tracks (through the boxcars on the adjacent warehouse tracks) to double the operational capacity, or allowing room for forced perspective background city flats. On other layouts, this might be 4" more for foreground scenery, but I already use buildings between the aisle and the rails to create visual breaks and mini-shadow-box scenes. Forcing the viewer to view from the angles I want them to see the layout from helps make it look bigger, too.
Eliminating the "other" set of switches on the various runarounds saves money and allows an extra 12" of siding length (in HO) — which, again, translates into more of a big city feel.
My advice to anyone modeling the city — or who has a large city — on their layout is to incorporate a wye. The easiest way is to have an oval form two of the tail tracks (so train length and long tail tracks are less an issue) with the industrial section on the third tail (think John Olson's Jerome & Southwestern with the Back Alley & Wharf extension if you go back to 1981….).
As for the layout in the video, it appears to be meant for continuous running mainline. The industries, yards, and "cities" appear more for parking cool rolling stock (like MoW equipment and extra locomotives in the yard) while varnish and time freights hammer the high iron. More as scenic elements than actually part of an operations scheme. I may be wrong, but that's how it looks.