This is less edited than my usual video, because I just wanted to have a conversation about this whole debacle, honestly.
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Forum Thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/505739-Difficulty-of-normal-content
Tweet: https://x.com/SerenayaCarrin/status/1813679210835439697
Interview: https://www.finaland.com/?rub=site&page=news&id=6801
0:00 The Issue
3:29 The Posts
10:11 “Both Sides”
12:10 We’ve been here before
14:05 Yoshida’s Goal
16:42 We are being trained
18:46 It’s okay to fail
22:05 Solutions
#ffxiv #dawntrail #ff14
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People are so darn used to having everything fed to them or pay money for it.
Lets not sit here and act like people dont have 3rd party add-ons to help them with the content
Trusts are something I think players struggling with dungeons should try out. Definitely as far as the raids go Im glad that they are wipeable. I actually don't even mind it because the fights are fun enough that if we need to redo it after a wipe its like I am still just having fun. Not to mention literally just yesterday we had someone dc a minute into m2 and we just finished the fight with 7 people. If you die, it isn't enough to wipe the party so I really don't think its something you should feel personally responsible for. We are all learning, and some of us get it faster than others, but if a party wipes, its very likely more than one person wiped and as long as you are learning, then you are doing fine.
For the first time in years since The Burn, I wiped in a dungeon because I underestimated the boss' damage. Getting nearly one shot by just 1 hit of a regular AoE just made me pause the video on my second screen and pay attention to the game.
If you can't play the content, put the effort to get better gear. If you still can't beat it, then find another stronger job to do it. You can't drag down everyone because of your own limits and expect everyone to be understanding about it. I don't do Savage or Ultimates because it would take me too long to adapt, I also don't want them gone as other people enjoy them.
So many people joined this game mid-Endwalker, where the majority of players were fully geared and well practiced at most content. It’s not that content is more difficult than any other expansion launch, but really, that this is so many people’s first expansion launch, and they are unprepared for everyone being fresh to new content, and thus, everyone learning all at once and thus wiping more often.
Give it 6 months and everything will be easy again.
This expansion is not difficult. Not by a longshot, its just been too braindead easy on normal level content for the longest time. Lifting the skill floor is a good thing.
Short answer, no
I can absolutely see DT being too hard for some people (especially supports because there is actually more responsibility than previously), but all we really need is a no-fail multiplayer trust mode or something. I mean why not implement that? This would mean that the generally higher level of difficulty for normal stuff gets to hang around, but people aren't forced to engage with the combat stuff if they don't want to.
Honestly, as a savage raider one of the things I've been telling my casual friends is exactly what's at 19:13
I feel like casual players are so focused on not failing. They take individual deaths and wipes super hard.
Being a savage raider, wipes are life. Wipes are an expectation. Deaths happen. Just get up and try to do better next time. One day, that mechanic that's been plaguing you will just click. You'll notice actually… you didn't die in that dungeon.
And if anybody is judging your journey through the game, that's on them for being terrible. We really do all start somewhere.
Um… wow. What I've learned from this discussion is that:
1. I'm eventually going to hit a wall in normal content because the hardcore crowd needs everything to be a ball-buster even though they already have their own exclusive modes.
2. The playerbase is not in fact as "friendly and welcoming" as they claim when a significantly large portion of if it so willfully, and happily even, tells people to "GTFO then" when some players run into difficulty.
As someone who only recently touched down in Stormblood, this is the first time I've had to stop and think about how I'm going to do the blue quests because doing so would be adding things to the duty finder where I'll just end up dead weight it seems, or I'll be forced to 100% rely on Trusts for the MSQ the whole way because I would be better off avoiding the majority of the playerbase who clearly doesn't want me in their runs anyway. Is this really what I was subbing for this whole time? To go pure solo because I have neither the confidence to do the upcoming harder content, and because the community wasn't anything like I had been lead to believe?
This has definitely been an eye-opener compared to when I first started playing during Endwalker, and I probably should start treating it more like a single player game to prevent future issues.
Let them get filtered out of the game. I was shit at one point too, I got good. This was our game before it was theirs. XIV changed post HW to be more friendly but it's time to go back. Focus on the playerbase who genuinely loves the game and loves to play the content, not the msq tourists who will be gone in a few months.
This person does the biggest self report ever when he says that it took him 4 tries to the fight to understand it. So what he wants is not having to learn so he can look competent 100% of the time and not die at all whatsoever. Basically, he's refusing to go through a learning process.
its a skill issue. if you think they are too hard. get better
it’s nice to have a fun lil challenge. i dont feel it was SUPER challenging, however i havent unlocked all the post MSQ dungeons quite yet.
Im seriously wondering if i got the same expansion as everyone else. I have not a single bad thing to say about the expansion aside from issues outside of gameplay.
Difficulty? I felt HW, SB, SHB and EW were mind numbingly easy aside from a couple off fights.
Im convinced that people who cant do these simple mechanics in dungeos, really need to take a look at what they are capable of. All mechanics are still dodge, stack, spread, in and out. Now you need to actually learn again instead of complaining about not knowing certain mechanics. Hell, ive done savages and ultimates and still enjoyed dying several times throughout DT because of not knowing certain mechanics!
Watching the Whitemage die ENTIRELY to an Esunable poison, was a perfect demonstration of the topic around 16m in. Beautiful.
Stuff like this is going to kill mmo's in the west it already is.
People need to get over themselves and learn what is given.
Or move to a different genre SE has bent over backwards to dim the content and in doing so has created a major skill gap.
At some point they need to close the gap so the divide isnt so bad.
This game has a ton of casual content where as for those skilled or willing to get better or accept the challenge the content really isnt there for them, and that is not fair for them.
You truly need to learn the new content.
Coming from 11 the difficulty is no where near what it was in 11.
If the difficulty is there it generates a better gaming community cause its the challenge that gets players to engage with one another.
In 11 the community was extremely engaging whether you struggled or not people helped people actually engaged in conversation to help clear and you as a person grew with the community if you didnt whine as much people kept you around cause you were willing to learn or adapt.
It wasnt about being elite and casual
People playing an mmo expecting instant gratification and an MMo is not really suppose to be like that.
But if that is what you expect you truly need to change genre or go console away from mmos cause you truly are killing the genre.
Developers that went the casual route don't stick around for long. And they get boring from being so easy and people move on leaving the game behind.
It should take time to clear content, keeps your devs from burning out.
There is some many places to go to learn the game to become a better player.
I finally managed to stay alive during the heart phase of M2 today and that felt amazing. I am a casual player who does not have the skill to play savage or ultimate and I am loving the duty content of Dawntrail. It feels fantastic and so satisfying to learn the fights and "defeat" them. I am grateful to the devs that the dungeons and trial are challenging and interesting. I wonder if for the people who are having a difficult time with the duty content that the difficulty level could be dropped for trusts if the player keeps dying. With some of the other duties you can drop the difficulty level to easy or really easy to get through content you couldnt pass otherwise. I have used this in the past with certain duties that require me to tank as I cannot get my brain around that. the WL fight against BJJ is a perfect example of this. Just an idea.
While it wasn't EASY MODE, Dawntrail was not hard at all. Some of the Story missions were harder than the actual Dungeons and Trials.
Just learn a bit. Yes, I do not pay your sub. But stop complaining that "WHy can't I just easy win game?"
I think one fundamental issue with trust that doesn't get talked about enough is how fast the screen fades to black when you die. I remember them making changes to the fade out timing on Instanced battle content during EW or maybe even late ShB with the reasoning that you couldn't tell what wiped you in EX or Savage sometimes. However, whenever I use the trust system and die for whatever reason, it seems like that change never was applied. How are you supposed to learn, when you don't even see what killed you because it goes black immediately?
I appreciate the raised difficulty in DT and think they almost nailed it. Any suggestions to the actual battles I could give are really minor.
I love the increased difficulty. So many normal raids and trials were so brain dead that it just felt like a filler. You could clear those with half a party and wiping was exiting because wow, actual mechanics that punish you for failure! And it might be frustrating but that's where you improve. If you like your game easy, relaxing and pretty (I get it) maybe this game is not for you. And thats ok, we all like to spend our time relaxing doing what we like and not everyone wants to overcome challenges in their spare time.
Nah, with close-to-min-ilvl gear, you can get clipped by one mechanic, dodge the next, and then die to the next one. Normal content wasn't particularly forgiving, but it wasn't particularly brutal either. This is more a conversation toward gear progression, imo, because the wider the available range is, the more likely you're gonna have new people come in with pretty potato gear. I was such a case myself, around level 94-98. There's actually a QoL update with this expansion that I appreciate, but I'm recognizing that it's only fueling "impatient not-thinking" moments too, because people want to get into the fight sooner to get it over with sooner – and impatient people have a hard time thinking, because they don't want to think, they want to DO.
Is it too hard? Eh, subjective. Some of the mechanics still feel like "RANDOM BULLSHIT GO!" but I've managed past it once, and it's only the one dungeon's boss (starting on a whale-powered boat) that I actually dread, because there's nothing clearly consistent with it, save for "this is when it happens".
My reason for letting my sub run out in mid-August is for a different reason entirely.
As someone who does EX and savage, I personally love the difficulty of the new content, however, my FC and friends who do play are casual. That being said, specifically the 95 dungeon is the biggest issue I've heard and seen. If your healer dies, that final boss is unbeatable without a warrior. That is the only instance I believe is too punishing, specifically if the healer keeps dying. (Got stuck in that dungeon for 55 minutes before the healer decided to leave and refill a new one)