The Total War series have undergone massive changes in the past 20 years, but not necessarily in the way you’d like. Even though the series and developer Creative Assembly has managed to strike gold on several occasions, the tragedy is that rarely does this lead to several great games in direct succession. Just think of how many mechanics and features are won or lost per game, and that even the best Total War games, probably lack certain amazing features from the game prior – not because they wouldn’t fit in, but because for whatever reason.
In this video, I define what the tragedy of what the Total War series is, and the sad state of affairs we find ourselves in, when great mechanics that used to be staples, are for some reason left by the wayside. Whether Rome to Medieval 2, Empire to Napoleon and Shogun 2, or Rome 2 to Attila and the Warhammer series, the mechanics are what makes a Total War game great, and their lack is felt all the more pressing when they’re not replaced by something better.
I value immersion, role playing and player agency in Total War games. But what do you value? Let me know your thoughts on these questions and this video in the comments, and remember to leave a like and subscribe to the channel 🙂
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no matter what mod or patch was added to rome 2 its still the worst tw game.
Like bands, writers, and directors, developers try to get better at things and leave their old stuff behind (however loved). Those who see continued success manage to make something new and good, but a lot just make new for the sake of it. I saw Rome II and disliked it. Not badly, but I saw that it had departed from what I liked about Total War. It continued on with the next titles, so now, I don't even bother to check them. My favourites were (and are at times) Shogun 1 (just because it was the first I played) and Shogun 2, Medieval and Medieval II, Rome and Empire. That they figured people wanted different things might be because they listened to one set of fans, I do not know. It is a fickle thing to listen to the fans, who when things are done as fans want, might not want it after all. Then when the shit hits the fan (pardon the pun), fans are not accountable for what other fans demanded. I certainly did not demand they shy away from a winning recipe.
Maybe it is easier to say what I dislike, for example with Three Kingdoms. I didn't like the convoluted UI. It was confusing and it felt sluggish and odd. Now, this was probably just me not being as smart as others, I don't know. I just know it didn't appeal to me like the old games did.
I agree with all of your points… exept for one. It is not important for the managers of CA, wether the players wish the best for the serious or not. It's just money. And therefore I am not optimistic. My prediction is: the will milk the warhammer-cow to the max by developing a TW WH 40K adaption for the serious. Even I absolutely dislike WH 40K, I would give it a try. I thought about how to make such a game great. But in the end it ist all time wasted. They will stay at their minimalistic approach of today, because the player, especially the warhammer-fan, shows them: we buy it anyways. And that's it. R.I.P. Total war.
I don’t play TW any more because the magic is gone. I last really good TW game IMO was MTW2. No DLC for things that should be a part of the base game. I’m dreaming at a MYW3 game that combine Mount and blade 2 Bannerlord with Europa Universalis 4. A good RTW game would be Imperator Rome with the TW battle mechanics. The campaign map part need more stuff, making a more complex game than now.
The mechanics for rome 1 that you talk about are essential to total war games. I quit CA after medieval 2 because even then i detected a slide starting. The new games aren’t worth anything at all.
Yeah, going back to the Rome 1, Medieval 2 style of game would be fantastic but can we also get the auto-replenishment feature to stay? That’s my favorite thing of the newer games and to be honest I like it so much it is tough to go back to pre Empire
I love CA but yea they just don’t innovate as much anymore. Perhaps a Sim City/ Cities Skylines situation will happen where CA screws up and the new contender takes advantage and creates something that’s blows us away.
I don't think it's that hard. A game with both the campaign depth of Paradox Interactive games and the combat system from Total War early titles. Creative Assembly always had the key to make the best historical Total War ever created and they still prefer to launch incomplete games followed shortly after by their aggressive dlc policy.
DLCs are not necessarily bad. When done propertly, they extend life of the main game (specially with easy replayable games). But it's definetely not happening in the Total War series due to it's poor base quality.
As a Total War fan who has enjoyed the historical games since Rome 1 in the earlys 2000's, I cannot tell how much it pains me to see the franchise's current state. It's almost unrecognizable.
Creative Assembly must return Total War to it's origins.
I liked Medieval 2 building system. I liked how I can build every thing in a city late game. I liked that you had to choose between city or castle.
I do not like building system from Rome 2, Warhammer. Limited building slots, the major and minor settlements division, and i'm pretty sure the inability to raise forts in important choke points is a huge downside for me.
I like the map size in newer games.
I liked the animated diplomacy in Shogun 2. Wish they would go with it in newer games (civilization style animated model of fation leader)
I want a return and overwork of naval combat from empire total war. Warhammer is hugely missing it. MAN O' WAR is right there for models and some mechanics.
For the last couple of years I was wandering why playing Total War games no longer gives me as much fun as it used to. And you made excellent point about role-playing. Min-maxing was never my my thing. I just want to build and govern my kingdom.
I hate CA's 'games as a service'-concept. I loved Rome 2 and played it for a decade, but with the last patch CA butchered the immersion by breaking the facial animations for all characters in the SP, if you play the game in a different language than english. I and many other players reported this issue, but CA just ignores it. Furthermore they removed the chat with the last update, which killed the Rome 2 MP – good job CA, thanks for everything.
Flash over substance. Perfectly said. Had an argument with an idiot about this on REDDIT. REDDIT, the idiot zone.
I like the direction the new total wars are heading. As someone whose been playing total war since the first shogun I can say that the games are still good, and have their own things to offer. It might be different from the old games like for example the population mechanic in medieval 2 never made a comeback instead now we have growth, but the graphics are getting better and the newer titles have their own things to offer.
To expect the games to be like they were in the past is foolish and boring.
Rome vs Rome Remastered, what do you think
There is only three total war games I'll buy, the remakes of Medieval 2, Empire and Napoleon.
Regarding the limits placed on the player, army limits etc. The main reason I am in support of that, is because the AI running around with 50 2 unit armies is fucking annoying. I mean it's less of a problem with settlements having auto garrisons, so not nearly as annoying as RTW1 or MTW2.
I would be fine with re allowing economy to limit your army if how armies functioned was reworked. I am not ever in favor of adding tedium to games and passing it off as depth.
To me Shogun 2 was peak total war. A more focused story, a tighter map, plenty of RP, a great MP system. They need to make more of those.
The newer games cost more and give less and, like you say, they abandon every improvement they make. AI is always so bad.
It's also because the physics in their engines have gone downhill(idunno im a layman)… or rather the physics within TW got worse… the games have become more 'arcadey'
Wish he would have mentioned the atrocity that was the removal of game chat in MP
I think everything has been an improvement outside of Music.
Music, it variety and options has dropped drastically in newer titles and its a tragedy.
The only two iconic musics in WHTW are Dark Elves and Skaven's theme, and the fact that each race only has one music track sucks ass.
AND WH1 factions don't even have a track whyyyy
Man you really… REALLY just went "yea but fuck Empire though"
CA ARE NOT the only people making these games. Look at Grand Tactician: The Civil War. It blows Empire, Napoleon, and Shogun out of the water every way but graphically.
The economy curve should not be an exponential growth (even though is the realistic approach) but a logarithmic growth. That way the empire expansion remains challenging. After turn 80, when you get to have interesting armies…you already have beaten the game and you don't get to actually have used those cool end game armies.
Tech trees should be simplified to be more meaningful. Instead of just adding unit bonuses. Unit stat bonuses dont add, but actually create even more imbalances late game.
Total was is strategy because is turn based. But that's it, there is no strategic decision in any single campaign.
Why did you use remastered when talking about 2004 Rome?
While I did enjoy the latest warhammer trilogy part of me felt alienated, and with the upcoming release of Pharaoh and hyenas neither of which interest me I feel alienated now more than ever by the company a company I trusted since 2002, but I feel that way about every other game company now, rockstar games, BioWare, activision blizzard, they all feel like shadows of their former selves compared to what they used to represent when they used to care about creating meaningful experiences for its fan base
I own 6 titles but I have only ever been able to play Medieval and Shogun one as the UI and Campaign maps on anything newer is just pants. Shogun 2 on triple monitors looked awesome but needed at least 3 people to control everything that was going on in a battle.
Really great takes. rome 1 was the best. Attila was good but the issue is its not rome 2 😓. I stopped getting total war games after that huge disappointment.
Game developers come in cycles. They start small and have vision. They either grow large or get bought out by larger vampire corporations. The previous employees retire or flee for other small companies. The large corporations churn out IP sequels and try to squeeze the consumer from as much cash as possible before they burn out . At the end of this point, the once great IP is crap.
We need a new ROME 2 DLC. Thats all.
I miss the good-old days of Medieval II.
No way you aknowledged that Rome 2 was the downfall of the series.
Every hysterical snob have been bitching about Warhammer being the problem when in fact it's the perfect setting for the arcady gameplay CA's started in Shogun 2 and "perfected" with Rome 2.
Could you PLEASE tell me how you got your medieval 2 to look so good in this footage!! Please!
i really miss not being able to tour the cities
The developers added 'grind' to their games, instead of keeping their games fun which takes a lot more work, they decided to add grind and that way players would spend longer playing which in the developers minds means 'value for money'
paradox needs to make battles playable and a new dev needs to break into the genre then CA will have to pull there head out their arse and make a proper total war game that we dont have to fix with mods.
I can answer your questions with pure stats.
The average gamer, aka, the bulk of the people that make companies money, is a ~35 y/o male with ~1.5 kids, that has ~1h of daily game time.
These people have no time for too many "deep" and "complex" game mechanics.
So "dumbing" the game down, is natural if CA/Sega wants to keep selling games.
This means, removing less impactful, but flavourful, mechanics that take away from the core game loop, of the current title.
While keeping enough complexity that can keep you engaged and coming back for that ~1h gaming time.
It's not that CA can't just copy-paste old mechanics into a new one and call it a day, for the historical titles(cuz they do that in WH3)
It's that the game needs to be different enough so that the average gamer feels he has gotten his money's worth, so you get great diplomacy in TW:3K, and that's part of the "core mechanic" for that tile, so it can be more complex than other titles.
But barebone/normal diplo in other titles.
Unless it's a "highlight"/"feature" of the title, it will be as simple as possible.
CA needs competition.
27:00 "rejects Rome 2 the most" … What the f*** is wrong with you!?
If CA gave me back the possibility of creating as many armies as I want and dividing them into detachments independently of generals, stop the stupid playable factions sh*t and allow me to play as all factions from the start, get rid of heroes, price their games fairly and reduce the number of unnecessary DLCs, then I'd be excited for their new games again. I learned to love the series playing the original Rome Total War (which I still play) but the love faded in the last decade because of many of those poor decisions that weren't corrected over time. Warhammer and Troy were the final nails in the coffin for me and I don't think that Pharaoh will be any different.
Meanwhile: Sega has a market cap or net worth of $4.24 billion as of September 10, 2023. Its market cap has increased by 29.95% in one year. They are dropping the ball HARD with CA's TW games. Raising DLC prices due to "inflation" and taking away most of the staff working on their most popular game (WHammer) while they increased their market shares by 30%. Shameful.
I really didnt like troy sooo yeah dunno Lol
Got corporate. Simple as, they don't care what the community wants and ignores the people who made the game popular for high margins of income. AKA the sin of pandering to the Chinese market with three kingdoms. dogshit game that has some nice looking graphics.