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A viewer asked me to find out who shot down his Grandfather in 1942. Join me as I go through the files to find out who dun it!
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Bibliography/Sources
– German Files from German Military Archive, Freiburg (Breisgau), Germany
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Timecodes
00:00 – Who Shot Down Stg. Hall?
00:52 – Flight Sergeant John Hall
02:07 – After Action Report
03:24 – Luftwaffe: Who Dun It?
05:08 – 1st Victory Claim
05:33 – 2nd Victory Claim
06:19 – Comparing Both Sides
10:42 – Open Questions
11:52 – Fates of Hall and German Ace
13:25 – Post YOUR Comments
Audio
Music and Sfx from Epidemic Sound
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Holee crap, 13 out of 48 died during training. I wonder how many were washed out?
My first job as a commercial pilot was flying skydivers and one of the interesting things that came out in skydiver death reports was the number of times the report would say "Body impacted at line stretch" indicating that another 100 feet maybe less the canopy would have opened and they likely may have survived.
I know of a pilot flying at the same airfield where a canopy deployed, damaged the tailplane and the C-206 went into a dive. The pilot survived. Aircraft was at 4,500 feet when things went bad and the pilot was estimated by watchers on the ground that he was under canopy for four second which means the laundry started opening at around 400 feet. The height estimation of Flt Sgt Hall's canopy opening has more than a ring of truth to me as a jump pilot.
An experienced skydiver ( I was never silly enough to leave a perfectly working aeroplane but was mentally prepared to leave a damaged on) which I am not could give a more accurate explanation of the parachute opening. I don't know how quick the parachute of the time opened because the modern ones have a slider that reduces the opening JERK quite substantially. No I didn't jump but I did pack the parachutes for those who had just done a jump and hadn't learn how to do that yet and I never had an opening failure. Yeah me!! 👍👍
Interessant!
Have you accounted for the two FW190 claimed (possibly) damaged in the same action by Fl LT Ecford and PO Aikman as providing the confirmed splashes into the sea and the very low parachute as being one or both or the same splash into the sea so everyone would then be telling the truth
i know its probably difficult but I'd love to see more videos like this even if its just analyzing individual fights and comparing both sides after action reports.
For the wounds in the back, what was the caliber 7.9 ? I think type and placing of the wounds can give a clue what really happend if he was shot while bailing out or not. I can not remember but I think 13 mm was introduced in fw190 later than 1942, better to say later than this event.
The 3 bullets in the back are rather lethal even for 7.9, I don't think he can survive 3 bullets if bullets were not slowed down dramatically. Since firing distance were small 100 – 200 meters if I remember well, it means that bullet will be fully effective. The only way he can survive is if the bullets were slowed down like punching trough amour or other parts of the plane.
There is also possibility of shot from long distance, but 3 wounds on the small area like human back is hard to achive on the distances big enough to reduce energy of the bullet in such level he can survive.
Also his leg was badly shot, so my theory he get shot trough the armored seat and in the leg without amour protection in the first phase of the fight, no shooting at the parachute.
Very , very interesting. I've been enjoying your content for years now . Boy has It changed, still miss the wacky stuff though but its become a learning experience now. Many thanks for everything Sir.
thatis tome difrent reportet relate to the aircraft ,, from below when the tag is over the clouds from the rear whenparralel …
Sir, an afterthought on a very touchy question. Are there REALLY documented accounts of Pilots being fired on after having bailed out, or is It more of an urban myth?
If true which "side" was responsable? I've always though that Pilots being Pilots would never have done this Sort of thing.
If any viewer in The comments can recommend a book on the subject i would gladly purchase It . Thank you.
This is so cool! I know it's not practical to do it all the time. But a few more of these style of video, even if they're not as conclusive, would be amazing. I think it gives a deeper level of humanity to the subject. Even for those of us who know a lot about the history, hearing stories of individuals and the out comes of their lives and how it affected other's live is incredible.
This was a great video. Interesting story and a nice insight into the process of research.
3:23 "ze germans"… Brilliant! Whoever says that Germans don't have humor, has never met Chris 😂. Not only a very good historian and narrator, but a funny guy as a bonus!
Thanks so much for making this Chris. It means a lot to my family and I, and my grandfather would be so pleased that his story is being shared for others to learn about. He was a real gentleman and was also very traumatised by what happened but did his best to tell us about it when he could.
He was always adamant he was shot at whilst parachuting as well as taking a round in the leg in the aircraft however, according to my Dad, he also mentioned that he didn’t really feel anything when in the plane so no doubt he was full of adrenaline so he could have taken additional hits in his Spitfire before bailing out. We will never really know I guess but you did such an amazing job researching this for me and to hear the German perspective is great too. It’s good to know he was having a go at the enemy before getting shot down too! He never actually mentioned that to us.
Thanks again,
Laurie
Great episode, bringing this very personal history to us. I hope you can do more like this one. Thank you MAH for doing this vid.
I’m not sure his rank was flight sergeant. Sergeants are/were called sergeant regardless of role. Flight sergeant is a rank and not an appointment.
Can you imagine getting orders to Miami and when you get there you find out you're in Oklahoma and not Florida?
Fascinating that really only naval and air history can do this kind of thing – for infantry this kind of analysis is largely impossible before the modern era of wars of choice by western militaries
1:19 Most incompetent flying school ever, killing a quarter of student pilots. The rest of the video appears to be deliberately designed to confuse, with a gratuitous slur of Mitutsch for shooting at Hall in his parachute. Low quality because based on low quality information.
Didn't it say his chute opened at 50-30 metres, not that he bailed out at that height?
Is there any legal reason why one shouldn't shoot at someone in a parachute? How does it differ from, say, shooting at a tank crew bailing out in the direction of their own lines?
I went through this process to trace the loss of an RAAF Bomber Command crewman who lived in the house I grew up in. His family never found out what happened and there are some irregularities about it. The combat report of the German night fighter pilot doesn’t quite match the witness statement from the policeman who saw the 57 Sqn Lancaster JB320 (I think that code is correct) crash. But this was the only claim from the area at that time and the only aircraft to crash in that area.
The young man’s name was Flt Sgt Stanley Charles Kitchen and he was an air gunner. The German pilot was Heinz Wolfgang Schnauffer. Poor Stan was killed, along with the rest of the crew. His other spent the rest of her life trying to find information and got nowhere. My brother and I, with the advent of the internet and the digitising of service records, were able to find out in a matter of hours.
Very, very sad story and there were other bits that made it even worse.
This was absolutely fascinating! I know it's different, but it's such a personal story. Definitely would like to see more videos like this.
jesus wept flight training was more dangerous than war
I enjoyed this, it would have been nice if you had included Sgt Halls recollection/story of what happened
Klaus Mietusch of JG 26, who was shot down and killed in 1944.
Thank you!
Chris, this was definitely an emotional video for me. My own grandfather was a fighter pilot and much of his history during this period is lost, most likely permanently. I have a few details, I hesitate to call them stories, and his final flight as a fighter pilot is one of those that I’ve picked a few details together over time. Thankfully he was able to fly again after the war. Thank you for your work piecing together the other half of the story for Sgt Hall's story, and for sharing that with us.
Im a retired US Army Infantryman. JG-26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe was my deployment book. It stayed in the top flap of my rucksack from 1994-2005 at which time it finally fell apart. Nothing like reading a dry unit history to relieve boredom
Thank you for your research and knowledge which enhance the videos so well.
Excellent commentary!!
Hi Chris, an interesting one for you to research look up FK242 sqn letter K or K-King, a Coastal Command Liberator mk3a, it ran into fuel problems and crashed making an emergency landing after hitting 2 barrage balloons. Our great uncle was the sqn bombing leader and a member of the crew who died. 6 out of 7 crew passed away, only the tail gunner survived.
Excellent research
I think your research and story on this conflict is just amazing. Thank you. Unfortunate that the two did not make the end of the war.
The plant in my office actually does the same. Bend leaves. I do not have a clue why, so I asked the AI: It said, it could be the watering, the nutrients or lack of light. I am pretty sure that watering and nutriens are ok for my plant, so I guess it is lack of light in my case. I water her once a week with a liquid nutrient solvent. Since I did that, she grew back to a healthy state (got her nearly dead) but since the days got shorter, she bends the leaves. So, lack of light seems plausible.
subscribed, your excellent channel.
Was that death rate of training pilots normal??!! It seems very high
Very enjoyable insight into verifying the dogfights that occurred during the war.