Today we compare the F-4 Phantom and the F-14A Tomcat in the Naval Carrier Fleet Defense role.
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0:00 Overview & Scenario Details
1:48 Some Discussion
3:42 ATTEMPT 1 – Five F-4 Phantoms
11:32 ATTEMPT 2 – Three F-14A Tomcats
21:19 ATTEMPT 3 – Three F-14A Tomcats With Phoenix
27:45 Pilot Race
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An interesting what-if would be F-14A vs F-111B. Basically the same engines and both armed with Phoenix.
Kenny Loggins on a valued loop for this one.
Maybe next do F-4 vs F-14 vs F-18 vs F-35C?
In the real world, if it was this hot as in war about to happen. The carrier would combat air patrol in orbit at 30k ft. Anything taking off is the alert 5 birds.
Hey Cap not sure if you've tested this before, but in DCS if you lock an aircraft (or anything), launch your weapon, trim the aircraft then eject, will the weapon system still track to target (assuming it doesn't maneuver)?
Great video! Now I want to see if the Super Hornet is/was worse than the F-14 at fleet defense. I would argue that before the arrival of the AIM-174B that the F/A-18 is worse at that role than the F-14 was due to lack of range, speed, and long range weapons.
Might as well just load up with all sidewinders.
1:05 what are those string wires on the UFC? I have not been around DCS in a while and I do not remember those being there.
Tomcat has to be the sexiest looking American 4th gen fighter
Only question, how much fuel was left after each run? I understand defence over survival of the fleet, but would you have enough time to get back or refuel in the air. Lost airframes are not great for a carrier in a combat scenario that may last days. Peace.
Cap, I have got an idea for a cool video. Can you and the boys do a mission where you take a group of like 10 F-35As into China to see how far y’all can strike? Maybe some of the Panthers can have a strike package of JDAMs and some in air superiority loaded out with Aim-120s or Aim-260s (all stealth configured). 🇺🇸 vs. 🇨🇳
Not sure what it proves if you treat the F-14 as a kamikaze fighter that doesn't need to manage its fuel enough to RTB
wouldn't they have a CAP in the air already?
I lived in San Diego, CA. My work took me near Miramar, that was in the mid 1970's. During lunch I got to watch the planes do touch and goes. They would come down in pairs. F4s and F14s. There is no comparison. The planes would come down in parallel, and do their touch, and then hit it. The F4s even with afterburner full on would be left in the dust by the F14's. It was amazing to watch and hear live. With the folding wings, the F14s could out maneuver any F4, and with their power out pace them. Then to say nothing of the more advanced targeting systems. The F4s were no match.
You used to call the Phantom a lead nosed diesel powered fighter.
CAP-TASTIC; according to the late Colonel Warbeck, the F-4 with 8 missiles and a centerline tank, should see MACH 1.6 up close to 40K ft. This is achieved with a level Mach run around 30K ft to build up the Mach, then maintain this Mach in the climb to 36-40K ft (M1.6). Need to get through TRANSONIC (past M1.3), which might mean a slight dive to 25K, then gently climbing above M1.3 to 40K ft, for the Phantom to "do its thing". I am going to give you a little scolding from my father, who is shouting at me from his grave. After takeoff, hold 450 kts in the climb crossing over to M0.9 to 30K ft. This is virtually the same climb profile of EVERY fighter jet if you wish to max perform the jet for an intercept.
The same for the F-14A. Even the Tomcat needs the nose pushed over from 30K ft to 25K ft (SR-71 too!) to get through Transonic. Once through M1.25, climb (and accelerate) at this speed to your best intercept altitude and hang it all out (get MAX speed into the jet) for the intercept. About the only older jet that didn't need to push the nose over to go supersonic is our FAV jet, the F-104, which father flew as well. Same climb at 450/M0.9 to 36K ft, level off and let the bird accelerate out past Mach 2. The F-104 was so awesome, father said it only needed to be above the Mach (M1.1) in any climb or climbing turn to bust through Transonic and get out to its M2.0+ top speed… and this is WITH tip tanks.
Other than this you are doing a bang up job. Stuff of Champions. Legend.
2 side notes:
1. By comparison, the F-15 with same 8 missiles and centerline tank, sees M2.35 at only 30K ft.
2. The Italians with their F-104S version (more powerful -19 version of the J79 – giving MORE capability speed/altitude) added two ventral strakes on either side of the ventral fin. Why? They needed MORE lateral stability at Mach 2.2+. Why? They max performed the airframe and engine combination that is the F-104. Their intercept profile with one AIM-7 under one wing and an AIM-9 under the other wing, with 2 tip tanks was "AS HIGH AND FAST AS POSSIBLE". How about Mach 2+ @ 50K ft? And clean they were cruising Mach 2 @ 70K ft.
why not do this with the f18 and f35 to show the differences
I have two questions, one whether it is possible (either irl or in game, not sure) and two whether Grim Reapers have already tested it. But, could these Tu-22s use Axehead missile or other long range missiles on their external pylons to defend themselves against incoming fighters in this scenario? The Tu-22 has a pretty big radome it seems like it could hold a powerful enough radar that could lock F-14s at pretty long range. Especially with this attack profile, the fighters coming in head on, they could pretty much keep zooming straight for their target, lock and shoot at fighters coming towards them and (hopefully for them) shoot down enough of the incoming fighters, or get them defensive long enough, that they could reach their target. This would be more effective if the bombers were using ASM instead of bombs to attack.
I can see some limitations with trying to test it. Im not sure you can get DCS AI to use both air to air missiles on the bomber AND stay on target to bomb or launch ASM on their target. Which means you would have to have human pilots to test this and then the question is whether you can get a modded Tu-22 that will hold Axeheads/LRAAM and internal atg stores that can be human piloted. Idk. I know GR has tested long range AAM missiles on the B-1 but I am not sure they have done this specific cold war scenario, Tu-22s using AAM on external pylons to defend against F-14s while also using atg stores to attack the carrier fleet.
Day 29 of *losing track*asking Cap to bring humans back to carrier battles
if you had TWS 8 aim54s from first 2 F14s at long range then the second pair hold fire and clean up the stragglers, you could probably do it in under 10mins
All GRs should own all modules. Especially the best ones in the sim! I can see not owning the Avro jet or the biplane. But the Tomcat? That’s almost sacrilegious! Get it now!
"420 and blazing." This hits hard because I'm high right now. Hello people.
This, but with Super Hornet vs Tomcat 21…
Fly over the top, invert and come down from above / behind to maintain speed into attack?
F-4s were fleet interceptors up until early 1970s … Say late '74. Fleet defense A/A missiles were FIM-2 Terrier and RIM-67 Standard. Terrier in 70s had roughly 40 mile range, Standard had more like 100 mile range.
Anything at all involving Tomcats makes me happy in the pants. Keep it up boys!
This battle will be known as the "Battle of Swing (Wing) Point"!! 😂
I have been working on my 1/144 scale F-4E model. It's kind of hard when I work a 12 hour shift at work!! I want to get back into model building and Amazon keeps "sweetening the deal". They have 1/72 scale F-15, F-16, and F-4E for $49 for all three!
It was the FTX competition. Grumman actually helped General Dynamics with the F-111B. Boeing actually had a contenter in the competition as well.
The Tomcat is as pretty as the Phantom is ugly.
imagine if the f-108 rapier program actually came to fruition in the early 60's. mach 3 with AIM-26 radar guided nuclear tipped anti air missiles and an AWG-9 radar. what a beast of a what-if.
It does make a little dif as you have to spend more fuel getting airborne with the wings swept. In long range missions it makes a dif if you are the only one doing it. Obviously im lonely and bored, friendless, so I nitpick a great deal…
At 12.00 minutes, eject pilot, check.😊
You'd think the tomcat would just be included with the game
The F-4 was a great fighter, so much so that the Marines and the Air Force also used it. But it was a victim of preconceived notions of the future of air combat that didn't pan out and the F-14 was designed to address its failings while improving upon its strengths.
F-14 has Maverick.
Cap, your solution to who can shoot down a bomber first is simple – if no one else is flying then you can't lose 😉
Ah, watching further you spotted that half way into the flight 😉
Call your target shots guys so you don't waste ammo
Now do the same thing with the F-4E vs F-15. The engines of the F-15C have a bit more dynamic thrust than the ones in the A but the C weighs more too.
TOMCAT!