The Smashing Pumpkins are still capable of making great albums, but a few things need to be addressed.
00:00 Billy Corgan 2020 quote
00:43 First thoughts
00:56 Introduction
03:13 What’s not working
04:39 The main issue
04:45 Jimmy Chamberlin quote on the “modern” Pumpkins
05:46 An overview on modern mixing
06:20 “Beguiled” response
06:41 Vocals
09:36 Drums
10:31 Classic mixes VS Modern mixes
12:40 An amazing performance of “Cash Car Star” with no click track
12:55 Butch Vig quote on “the secret to the Pumpkins’ sound”
14:17 Click tracks and quantization
15:06 The solution
source
I said this in a reply, but I'll say it here to make my stance abundantly clear:
The big question is: Who is a worthy producer for SP? That's what I want to make clear– the Pumpkins are worthy of a GREAT producer because they are a GREAT band. They are professional musicians who benefit from great producers, because it brings the ultimate vision to life in the best way. I'm not trying to attack Corgan. Not at all. I'm only looking at the facts: their most successful albums were done with innovative, mindful producers. The music can still evolve and progress (as it should!), but the vision for their albums is so grand, of course hiring a producer is a good idea. It's not a slight towards Corgan, it's a compliment: the Pumpkins are only deserving of the best producers in the world. 🙂
They need a new sound, “the new future” not the current future. That is what they harnessed originally. They were like few other bands at the time.
This is very, very accurate. I had the same thought. Why listen to a pumpkins album if it is just going to be the same as any generic new band. ATUN had minimal surprises. MCatIS had dramatic changes song to song and some were really weird. I would never listen to ATUN on my stereo system. What would be the point? Sounds the same from my phone's speaker. Sad.
What is the music playing right at the beginning?
@10:00 that is just disgusting
your voice is so relaxing! its like listening to the narrator of The Wonder Years
I love you Billy and the pumpkins. The world and the 90s was a better place for your music and I count myself fortunate to be in my early 20s when you came a long. But I just can't get into their latest work.
Thank you for this vid!!! It is awesome!!! Hope SP will see it.
Awesome work mate. Very thought provoking.
Jame's Iha's solo album Let it Come Down has its flaws but my older brother and I listened to it nonstop when it came out.
My main issue with the last SP albums is Jimmy Chamberlain's drumkit sound. They have the most tasteful rock drummer ever but they make him sound like an electronic drum machine. Where is the jazzy sound? Where is the beloved snare sound? Where are the incredible fills?
I don’t care for them but I grew up hearing their songs and the fact that anyone can play guitar. That sounds hypocritical but that’s called being a fan too. I despise his vocals but I wore a Smashing pumpkins shirt because it looked cool. Hey,I am guilty. If I had a favorite song by them it would be 1979.
@OP I’ve been looking for the right person to mix my band. Everything you said here I agree with and want my music mixed like you’re talking about. Do you mix @OP?
wait,..Jimmy Chamberlin is still alive,.?!?!???? i thought he OD'd in that hotel room like 20 years ago,…whoaaa,….did i experience a mandela effect??
This third era, to me all the answers about the new frame of mind were answered by Billy in his instagram account, hes all about his legacy, hating to sing like in the old records, his genius composing hability and trying to get more gigs because he knows the bands not getting new fans, he was answering questions of fans in his ig stories and his wife too sometimes, or as someone once asked his wife “whats your favourite song?” She replied “ the one that pays the bills” That’s the third Era.
Pretty good, but if you think machina was recorded and mastered well, you're crazy. Loudness war candidate for sure.
Modern music is basically unlistenable. If you're used to listening to it for prolonged periods of time, with the volume up, you seriously risk damaging your hearing in the long term. It's not just the mixing; it's the mastering as well – especially the over reliance on compression. I mean, modern music – even modern remasters of older albums – have virtually no dynamic range. It makes the music non-musical. Music is not supposed to be an all-out frontal assault; it's supposed to have spacial depth, pauses, highs, lows. It's supposed to take you on an emotional journey; not be terrified of losing your attention. Even my favorite band of all time, Rush, fell prey to modern music trends with their last few albums. Their final album, Clockwork Angels, is very close to a masterpiece and an incredible final statement from a decades-serving band, but the mix is so dreadful and compressed I hardly ever return to the album.
The people who lead the music industry – and often it's people who had good instincts in the past – have forgotten what music is. They're just making content for people who want to pass the time while doing other things.
Only liked one of their songs but Billy Conceded Corgan ruined that one too. He’s just an A$$ and their music suffered because of it. They would have been better without him.
awesome video my man. i too have been mourning the loss of the pumpkins magic in their later material and you really nailed it. the new production completely neutered everything that made the pumpkins memorable. it sounds sterilized and composed in a vacuum, completely devoid of any human element. i'm not sure why a band that made a name for themselves by not conforming all of a sudden wants to conform. the new songs aren't even bad – if they could be given the proper production treatment, we'd have newfound gold on our hands. here's to hoping they find their groove again!
Mellon Collie and Siamese Dream will go down in history. Machina the Machines of God was a decent album but everything else is shite.
hurray finally yes you're right, the vocals are almost cringing to me
When you're young you can be weird and cool. When you're fat and Middle aged. Ur just weird. Billy needs to ditch the dresses and makeup. The songs are still Great maybe not so focused everything drifts around style and theme wise. They just need to go away and work on an album for a bit and it'll be great again
The bass parts also works extremely well with the drummings in the old songs.
fix it in the remix
The hyperproduced drums and the poor mixing balance really do ruin them, now that I listen to the albums after the year 2002 ish with a critical ear. The songwriting is still great.
Billy Corgan remains extremely talented and prolific. I think they could "immediately" (yes there is monumental creative effort to craft an album worth of music) make a best-album-since-the-90s if they went to a studio with a producer who specializes in live band takes and 'natural' production. Write the same caliber of music, just have someone who can make a mix without coating it in plastic. Shake things up.
Great video. I can't say that I agree with what you're saying because I don't really understand mixing in the way you do. I love all their albums, even the new ones. So I hope they take your advice so that you (and those who agree with you) can enjoy the new material as much as I do.
The Smashing Pumpkins ceased to be after Machina in my mind. Everything new has felt inauthentic and almost an attempt to recapture something lost instead of doing something new. But beyond that, it's just so damn boring and uninspiring. You said it in the video: It feels like they're trying to stay relevant. That's a horrible thing to say but, the songs just haven't been there for a long time. I wonder if it's less about the production and more about the chemistry between band mates. When it was just Billy and a new rent a band… that was when the output was at its absolute worst!
A huge problem I've always had with Rick Rubin is his insistence on pushing the vocals up in the mix. They're always too loud on everything he does. I think it comes from his rap production where the vocals are always priority. Personally I don't think he's a very good rock producer. Probably the only pass I'll give him is Blood Sugar Sex Magik, but let's be honest, those guys were on fire for that album, so not much you could do to screw it up. Also the Deconstruction album from Eric Avery and Dave Navarro is pretty solid. I might be biased on that, though, because I love the original Jane's Addiction lineup.
Hi Rick beato
The Smashing Pumpkins have been my favorite band since 1991. I was in my early 20's in the early 90's and all my friends had their band, the Pumpkins were mine.
I have every album, I had most of the singles from the day, love all the B-Sides/compliation songs like Glynis, Marquis in Spades, the Aeroplane Flies High, The Beginning is the End is the Beginning, the End is the Beginning is the End, Eye, Drown and on and on. I torch my soul to show the worl….ohh wait where were we.
I loved Machina and FAEOMM/CR1,CR2, and CR3 (even with the terrible transfer from Record)
but man, I just cant get into most of their catalog since Zeitgeist. I love Starz (but not his voice at the beginning with the "uhh, ohh, uhh, ohh….cringe).
Pale Horse, Lightning Strikes, One and All, Ramona, Wyttch, Anno Satana are amazing songs and I love them as much as Rocket, Here is No Why, Thru the Eyes of Ruby, Ava Adore, Star,a Hello Kitty Kat, etc.
But the rest of the new stuff. I mean, you nailed it. You absolutely nailed it. I really REALLY hope that Billy sees your video, and takes it for the positive, constructive criticism it is. The mixes on all the new stuff are just terrible. All the recent stuff sounds like a drum machine, not the amazing Jimmy Chamberlain.
I guess my reason for this post is just to fuel your fire. I have followed these folks for 30+ years and have listened to each album hundreds if not thousands of times. Hell man, I drove from Los Angeles to Dallas (about a 21 hour trip) and I listened to Walking Shade on repeat FOR THE ENTIRE TRIP…yes, 21 hours of that ONE song back to back to back to back.
Thank you for this video. It really needed to be said and your analysis is spot on. Thank you!