Let’s talk through the Grey Knights index in Warhammer 40K
Index downloads available here – https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/
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0:00 Intro
1:00 Contents
3:02 Teleport Assault
6:15 Teleport Shunt
8:20 Stratagems
13:26 Enhancements
17:05 Datasheets
20:03 Power Armour Squads
26:37 Terminator Squads
29:46 Servitors
30:39 Vehicle Units
39:48 Generic Characters
48:20 Epic Heroes
53:54 Forge World Units
55:41 Closing Thoughts
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@27:25 About the Brotherhood Terminator Squad – you don't have to trade in a Storm Bolter for the Ancient's Banner. You can just take the banner. Not that that fixes all their problems or anything, just clarifying.
I just bought in the gray nights. Somewhat aware that they're just sort of in a mediocre spot with 10th edition. And yeah that's been my impression with a couple games as they just need a little bit more. Not massive changes. There's some point reductions and maybe reworking that teleport shunt ability it's just not that useful.
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The detachment rule really feels like a waste
The purgation squads is 5 points cheaper than a repulsor lol that’s crazy
In 9th, Grey knights struggled with anti-tank. They somewhat compensated with some really good offensive psychic. Now, In 10th with all the psychic nerffed into the dirt.. They virtually can not deal with anything S10 and up.
People are relying on librarians and damage instead of embracing their movement and stratagems. 2 10 man terminator squads and 1 10 man paladin squads are the core of the army I have been having the best results with. The grand Master is the best non named character, run him with terminators or paladins. Drago is a monster and helps a lot with his FNP to mortals. The last one I run is either a brother captain or chaplain depending on points with the paladin squad. Now you have 3 tough, relatively killy units that you can teleport around with your army rule. I run the sigil always. First to the fray is optional but I try to run if I have the points. Callidus assassin give you a 4th deepstrike unit for secondaries. 1 or 2 5 man Voidsmen or exaction squad for screen/back field objective holder/secondaries. What you do with the last few points is up to you. I've switched one unit of either terminators or paladins with purifiers and Crowe a few times and it was ok.
48:05 One correction that helps out the Grand Master Dreadknight, whenever you use ANY stratagem it only costs 1. So he is a great target for Haloed in Sunfire, the psychic weapon one, counter offensive, or if the enemy makes one cost extra.
grey knights are neat but damn are they low on the totem poll. i have such a hard time trying going against high toughness targets that it feels like a waste of time doing it.
I don't like how they threw all melee weapons into the same category. I liked having the choice between 1 dmg but more atts, 2 dmg more ap or str, 3 dmg but -1 to hit. I love that war gear doesn't have an additional points cost anymore.
The loss of Nemesis Daemon hammers is criminal, as is what is essentially a debuff.. the Psyker/Psychic attack Keyword. Purgation squads are pointless, Interceptors lost their role due to the army rule, dreadknights are over costed for their damage/survivability, paladins are a joke.
Grey night's spending 2 cp for dev wounds on psychic weapons when tsons can just pick them for free. Yikes
If you want to play grey knights competitively, play thousand sons
The Grand Master dreaknight discounts all stratagems to 1 cp not just heroic intervention.
He's too expensive for me to feel worth taking regardless but I'd argue the best use for him is actually discounting haloed in soulfire for safe positioning to threaten a vehicle/monster
ITS NOT LOOKIN GOOD GREY BOIS
As a grey knight player in 9th yes our mortal wound factory was fantastic however that was what made us actually keep up with everyone else who had good anti tank.
Add actual psychic abilities/shooting back to the army's units, give them back their Nemesis Hammers, unnerf their entire Dreadknjght weapon profile list that is currently incapable of dealing with anything, more than T6, and undo the needless 30-60% points increase that has this army costed like Custodes, and theyll be back to the middle of the pack for 10th Ed armies.
I think one of the main things that Teleport Assault does is that it forces opponents to screen out deepstrikes, preventing them from committing their entire force. Other armies will eventually run out of units to deepstrike with. Grey Knights will not.
Strategic Mastery on the Grand Master is garbage.
Do you guys think Grey Knights will see a primaris style model refresh soon? Wondering if I should go all out buying models to start an army or wait. They look a bit dated but I hear they are the forgotten children.
They ported our heavy weapons from 8th editon – they rely on stratagems to make viable and we didn't get any in the Index. Winning as GK right now means just hiding in a corner or sitting on an objective and dying as slow as possible. Killing things just isn't an option.
Then you have stratagems and army rules that punish psychic weapons…
Grand Master in Nemesis should hit on 2+… he is the only captain in 40k to hit on a 3+ thats BS… Overall the rest is cool, but a big lack of firepower against big toughness like vehicles or Monster… GW have to had firepower and reduce the cost of points
After several games they seem to lack that special source. Teleporting is great, but you're just average at best against most things cost for cost, some than most. Certainly a balance pass is needed and some points tweaking. Hope GW isnt lazy about it though and just makes them cheaper. They should be a small elite force, not cheap and spammy. We'll see what happens i suppose. Thanks for the vid.
I feel like you forgot to mention that the Psychic key word is now more or less a debuff on units. Since it seems to be the most common thing that has a FNP to protect against, but no balance on a buff for it. This has also made the Daemon Slaying faction worse Daemon slayers than your standard SM.
CORRECTION: Grandmaster Dreadknight can use any stratagem for 1CP , not just heroic intervention. I misread there. I guess could help a few of the pricier ones be a bit more viable on him.
Good analysis!
Death from the warp gives +1 to Hit in melee as well because it doesn't specify RANGED attacks
This is my Boarding Actions army, playing the first BA of 10th tonight, should be fun. Still annoyed gw don't have any support on the app for boarding actions though, no way to build a list at all, hoping battlescribe still does
The Grey Knight are really lacking of an anti-tank unit!
Havent had many issues killing armor, ive had trouble surviving long enough to do so.
Primaris resculpted Grey Knights should get their squad types consolidated and adjusted to include proper anti-armor weapons such as melta guns, plus Grey Knight-tailored Primaris vehicles such as Redemptor Dreadnoughts.
I play GKs, I can confirm that telaport assult is quite useful, but after turn 2 everone ahould already be in optimal position, thus no longer needed. The Shunt is way to niche to be an attachment, I think it should be a strat and the detatment rules should be replaced with something combat related.
It’s insane how much you can solve most of our issues, or at least even it all out heavily, if they rediversify the nemesis force weapons.
Wow, you mean to say that practically removing Psychic Powers negatively impacted Psychic Focus Armies? They don't need AT Guns, they need their Psychic Powers back.
The worst part is they could already teleport all over the place and, honestly, could do it better in 9e. They've lost so much to 'gain' a worse version of something they could already do better and more interestingly.
Grey knights and orks both suck in 10th
2 cp for devastating wds in melee 😂 wtf gw
Tbh why are we expecting a rock paper scissors army to be balanced in open play. They should have an 80% win rate against chaos, and be overcosted and average everywhere else. They clearly brought out custodes to create generalist superboys.
I’m okay with Grey Knights being horrible, what I’m not okay with is Custodes being good.
Screw all the super marines.
How should i put it.. like most of the players, you failed to see the true potential of GK. And most of their strengh is hidding behind their rules and abilities that s have to be red carrefully.
1rst death for the warp startagem gives [assault] to the ranged weapons, but the +1 to hit bonus dosent specify that it apply on ranged weapon only. This is a huge boost for DK which can move, advance, fire on 2+, charge using tank shock, and hit with there great hammer with a WS of 3+; with all of that a DK can statically crush an armiger in one round.
The second one are the interceptors and Rhinos: the core rules specify that a unit cant embark or disembark in the same PHASE, which means that interceptors can disembark from a rhino during the mouvement phase, then in the ranged one, they can fire, move 6" and embark in the vehicule. Then, the Rhino can shoot himself using the interceptor's heavy weapons, as allowed by the rhino's firing deck rule. Thus, even if an interceptor squad has only two heavy weapons, they can shoot twice with it in one round.
The third mistake concern the servitors' and the techmarines which are probably the most profitable GK unit's . The core rules makes clearly a difference between a "model" and a "unit". The servitor's retinue rule specify that only one servitor unit can join a UNIT already led by a techmarine; not that the techmarines can only have 4 servitors as bodyguards. Since the techmarine can led a strike squad, or a servitors' squad, you can actually makes a squad of 8 servitors, with 4 heavy weapons. Moreover, if you give a sigil to the techmarine you can safely teleport the entire squad up to 3" of an ennemis unit ( using the pronostical arrival stratagem) and fire with 4 heavy melta at short range. If your ennemy try to move or shoot you, teleport again using the Sigil or mist of deimos stratagem. You think that the domina liber daeminica is just average? Just put it on a techmarine, and he will make 8 attacks that will wound most of vehicules and monsters on 4+, which make him as deadly as voldus in close combat.
Finally, the stratagems have to be well used too. If you just use mis of deimos, put your GK unit in reserve and deep strike in your next mouvement phase, you will have have to roll a 9" charge. But if you combine mist of deimos, and rapid ingress, your next charge is guaranteed.
In conclusion, there are plenty of strong combo available in GK army, but most of GK players focus on the terminators, and epic characters, which is why, in my opinion, they are struggling against the others. In fact, currently, most of the players are using terminators-like unit in their own list, and every competitive army are well prepared against them.
Grey Knights have 3 major problems, and probably a half dozen minor problems that hamper their ability to compete even at a middling level.
1.) The lack of meaningful anti-tank/Knight is a glaring weakness that makes several matchups essentially unwinnable. (Note to my fellow Grandmasters: Run at least 2 Ven Dreads until we get some balancing, it doesn't solve all the problems, but it is at least a snowball's chance.)
2. Storm bolters need to have Assault. At the very least this would make the detachment rule more useful.
3. Character attachment rules are a MESS. That most characters have to attach to over-costed Terminator units makes list-building far more constrained than it should be. There need to either be non-Terminator versions of at least a few leaders or the ones in Terminator armor should be able to lead non-Terminator units.
Extra credit: Give the GMNDK 2+ to hit and lower the cost of all NDKs significantly, the nerfs to their weapons are crippling at their current price tag.
Bonus note to other GK GMs: Take Crowe and a full brick of Purifiers with Incinerators and learn to love Prognosticated Arrival with them.
Played 2 games of 10th ed with gk vs guard – first game 1k game short edges – lost by 15 points due to getting some rules wrong on my side – with nemisis, he did fairly well
second game lon edges – i took 1gm knight and two normal ones, used first to the fray and put both of the knights in reserves, put down gm down turn 1, he survived, dropped the other two next round survived 1,5rounds which was fine moving up the board with 2x terminator squads and screening out the backfield with calladius und henchmen. won by a huge margin due to the moveability
I’d love to see a general review of 10th ed in Boarding Actions type play. The buffs to vehicles seems to have really messed with the system. So many comments refer to units lacking the needed anti-tank abilities.
Still so fucking weird to me GW went and decided to represent the most powerful Imperium psychic force of daemon hunters by… building their army rule around teleporting a lot? something not even really associated with them in the lore?
Ya know, I kinda like how the grey knights are looking this edition. I feel like they’re more useful against non-demon factions now, and as much as I think a points reduction could make them a lot more playable, I’m pretty happy as GK player. Even though it’d be better to build around terminators, I really like the idea of running some purifiers with Crowe as warlord then some terminators to back them up. I really like Castellan Crowe’s datasheet this edition
Grand master in nemesis dreadknight hit on 3+ and 4+
……..