Some ship design failures can stem from simple mathematical errors – but others are broader and more complex. British battlecruisers like HMS Invincible and roll-on-roll-off (Ro-ro) ferries like MV Estonia don’t have very much in common, but the whole success of their function hinges on critical design Achilles’ heels. In the case of the battlecruiser a lessened armour scheme and, for the ferries, a whopping great hole through which to load cars. When the designs worked, they worked well; but when small failures were introduced or the ships were pushed beyond their capabilities then things could get fatal. Featuring stories of the battleship HMS Dreadnought, battlecruisers HMS Invincible, HMS Indefatigable, HMS Queen Mary and SMS Seydlitz and the ferries MV Princess Victoria, MV Estonia and MV Herald of Free Enterprise.
Oceanliner Designs explores the design, construction, engineering and operation of history’s greatest vessels– from Titanic to Queen Mary and from the Empress of Ireland to the Lusitania. Join maritime researcher and illustrator Michael Brady as he tells the stories behind some of history’s most famous ocean liners and machines!
#ships #engineering #disaster #fail #story #documentary #design #boats #titanic #navy #ferries #stories #history #facts #maritime
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Those massive vehicle decks are unfortunately an inherent risk of roro ferries. Ideally, cities wouldn’t have car-centric urban planning and so we navarchs wouldn’t have to bother accommodating cars in the first place
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I had a feeling the Herald would crop up when you started talking Ro-Ro ferries… Such an easily avoidable disaster. I live in Dover and even though it happened on the return leg outside Zeebrugge it's still quite infamously remembered here.
The continued evolution of RoRo ferries is interesting to see given the constant need to transport people and goods as efficiently as possible. Unfortunately speed took precedence in cases such as the Herald of Free Enterprise. Apparently because it was so shallow the squat effect was partly responsible in allowing water into the ship.
Another great episode, awesome channel 👌
But why do ro ro ferries have to have a door in the hull? Why couldn't they have a hole with a ramp in the deck, and a high dock, so that cars could drive onto the deck and then down into the ship? That would make alot more sense to me. It is good at least that those doors in the hull are more effective these days
10:07 Mistake on the image, you showed that the british ship had 9" instead of 7"
…or we could build taller docks so cars could drive onto the top deck of ships and use internal ramps to drive below decks without having holes in the hull.
Nah! Docks are expensive
Well the front wasn't supposed to fall off
We're back on the set!
And I'm digging the new shirt with the detachable collar! I hope it's treating you well!
I really love this channel's attention to engineering. That aspect has always been what's interested me about disasters.
With Titanic's large, empty space in the middle, it's a bit of a shock she didn't get a mention here! But then again, you do have an entire video on the subject!
Another cracker, Mike! Thanks!
For those more Intrested in Estonia and the horror her Disaster was i can recommend a quople of Documentaries, Docu-Dramas and a television series which is done by alot of the people who was behind Charnobyl.
Documentaries :
Estonia Fyndet spm förändrar allt. a docu in 4 parts which mostly do a good job showing the historical part well but then goes haywire with conspiracies at the end sadly.
Estonia: Livlinan som brast. A 3 part documentary which was released 2004 at the 10 year memorial. its a great one with the focus on survivors and the history. sadly only in swedish. it can be found on YT.
Docudrama:
Zero hour: The sinking of Estonia,
Surviving Disaster: The Sinking of the Estonia, BBC's take on it much better quality. Surviving Disaster(2008) is a gem and its Chernobyl episode was most likely used as a reference during the Chernobyl tv series production.
Also the MT Saint helens Episode might be the best drama together with Dantes Peak for Volcano Erruptions.
Tv Series:
Estonia (2023):
An extreamly big series and the most expensive in the history of Both the nordic countries and the Baltics.
Most of the people who where behind CHernobyl are involved here to and it shows, English subtitles are availible for this one online.
It takes the perspective from the people who investigated the accident from Estonia, Finland and Sweden.
The original investigation was at6 best flawed.and the politics behind the curtains was horrible.
best regards.
Fun Fact! The S.S. Badger is the last coal-fired passenger steamship in operation in the United States.
New video from Mike? Instant improvement to any day!
Oooh! This is my kind of video! I love hearing about how ship design improved over time due to disasters like these! New information for me to learn! Keep it up! 😁
If you want to have an entire month’s worth of episodes, do the history and designs of the lake ferries of the Great Lakes!
Great Lakes freighters are simile to RoRo’s in the sense that to be self unloading they have to not have any watertight compartments at 1000 ft long that can get dicey even on the Great Lakes.
These issues are why RoRo ferries were sometimes referred to as "Roll-on/Roll-over" ships.
Always a pleasure to listen to.
Herald of Free Enterprise at Zeebrugge could do with a video of its own
Another outstanding video, mate! Cheers!
What a waste of precious lives.
speaking of roll on, roll off ferries, has anything ever happened on/to a spirit of tasmania that's worth discussing in a video?
Some of them are built so that the front doesn't fall off at all
Cruise liner sinkings for some reason don't bother me (maybe because I see myself ever being on a cruise ship), but ferry sinkings terrify me. Maybe it's because they seem to all happen so quickly. I remember reading about the Estonia, and that's the one I always think of.
Theres actually a lot of controversy surrounding Estonia to this day with on going investigations and cases getting reopened just last year. I would absolutely love it if you would make a video on the whole topic, the story is very intriguing and surrounded in mystery and even a few conspiracy theories.
What about the Great lakes rail road ferries . Several of them ended up on the bottom too .
There’s also the Golden Ray roro that capsized in Georgia.
S.S. Badger @13:30 is right down the road from me in Manitowoc Wisconsin, USA. It's the last coal fired steam ship on Lake Michigan. Huge tourist crowd in the summer that carries cars, bikes, commercial freight, passengers. @oceanlinerdesigns ❤ #ssbadger
Why all th british ships named "invincible" were attacked?
Yay! Now, then could you please cover more airships or perhaps ready the next part of the Evolution of Ocean Liners series please?
Thumbnail makes it look like the front may fall off.
A couple of points regarding Battlecruisers. The Germans also nearly lost the Seydlitz at year earlier at the battle of Dogger Bank, in that situation, both after turrets were destroyed and only flooding the aft magazines saved the ship. The Germans looked a their ammo and cordite handling procedures and tightened things up considerably, making sure the anti-flash doors between the magazines and turrets were closed when not hauling up ammunition and propellent. They also stored their cordite in metal containers.
Although, HMS lion was damaged at Dogger Bank, she did not explode, so the British felt no need to change their ammo handling practices. Also RN gunnery doctrine emphasized a rapid rate of fire "feeding the guns," in such an environment, safe handling practices tend to get ignored, the magazine doors stay open, extra cordite cases are placed in the turret, everything to feed the guns. Dives on the Jutland wrecks (including the HMS Defence, which, though not a battle-cruiser, also suffered a catastrophic explosion), found numerous cordite cases stored within the gunrooms so they can be accessed quickly. Needless to say, after the battle, the RN tightened up their ammo handing procedures. But what a costly lesson.
“Ships are big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big they are. I mean, you may think it's a long way from the bow to the stern, but that's just peanuts to the size of ships.”
-Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, probably. 🤣
The mixed caliber armored cruisers of the pre-dreadnought era were evolutionary dead ends. The light cruisers of WW1 were the basis for what became the heavy cruisers of WW2, following the Washington Naval Treaty (1922) and the light cruisers after the London Naval Treaty (1930). Battlecruisers were phased out in the 1912 building program (Hood was the only one of four in its class completed). BCs were successful against German armored cruisers at Falklands, but failed when used in the battle line at Jutland. Had the RN given them another name (like the US "large cruisers" of the Alaska class) and David Beatty been more competent, and used these ships to hunt down light and armored cruisers or screen the dreadnought BBs, the class might have had a less checkered career. Faster BBs in the Queen Elizabeth and Revenge classes seem more of a natural evolution of the dreadnought types rather than a combination of BC and dreadnought traits.
Why you called ships "she" instead of he?
I wish i could travel back in time and experience a ocean liner
One small correction: The Germans used similar ammunition handling practices as the British until the Battle of Dogger Bank, when Seydlitz was indeed almost lost due to a 13.5in shell hit that caused her aft magazine to go up. This DID NOT happen at Jutland. It happened the year before. Indeed, only the heroic actions of the XO saved the ship. German ammunition handling practices were changed radically in the wake of this; the result being that German battlecruisers, unlike British ones, stopped having a tendency to go pop.
Love your channel bro!!! Keep the red side down and the smoke stacks up!
I think M/S Estonia should deserve it's own episode where the disaster could be analyzed minute by minute. Like Mike said, it's one of the worst peace time shipping disasters. Over 850+ people died.
Roll-On/Roll Over
A 15" shell @ the battlecruiser fight @ Jutland would have had 2 come from 1 of Evan-Thomas' Queen Elizabeth class superdreadnoughts
Another interesting point I've heard about Estonia is that because the bridge was pushed a little backwards on the superstruture, there was no way for the crew on the bridge to actually see that the bow visor was loose
"Ro-or" is also short for "roll on, roll over".
Do a video about greek ferries
I've been on a few 50 year old RORO ferry vessels in the Philippines. The govt is very careful though, shutting down the services every time the weather is questionable. And they're operated as slow as molasses too, slow cruising at 9 knots. Island pace here.
The difference between the way the Germans stored cordite (gun cotton) and the way the British store cordite made all the difference. The Germans stored their in Brass canisters unlike the British that stored their in material bags.
Now I do have to ask about the Estonia and the believed hole in the side from what is meant to be from a torpedo hit ? (I know its controversial as the pics where from a illegal dive of the site)
Yes!! Very happy to see you cover this disaster. It's frankly a little strange how under the radar the sinking of M/S Estonia flies, internationally speaking. I'm from Finland and for Estonians, Swedes and us it's been a lifelong search for answers.
There are some VERY convincing conspiracy theories around Estonia…..while I don’t think any of them are 100% correct I do think there is enough evidence, both circumstantial and scientific, to prove the official narrative given about her sinking is definitely not complete and some things are being hidden from the public for whatever reason.
As a Finn living in Turku, I can still remember how my mother walked me to see the helicopters bringing victims of Estonia, which were landing at Hellpad next to our local hospital.
Helicopters look so cool, but afterward, I have understood how tragic and devastating it all was
There is quite a bit of misconceptions with the Battlecruisers here. You got it somewhat correct but, the British powder handling practices in Beattys fleet were abysmal. They focused on speed of fire instead of accuracy, which the Grand Fleet was the exact opposite. Because of the focus on rate of fire, cordite was stacked in the turrets, the hallways and the handling rooms. Flash protection was removed to speed up the process of getting ammunition to the guns. This means that any fire or explosion would flash directly to the magazine. The germans did not remove their flash doors, they learned of this when they almost lost a Battlecruiser to Beatty in an earlier engagement at Dogger Bank.