Let’s discuss how Dragon is better off as a monster family as opposed to an elemental type.
Special thanks to TheFirstPepillon for help with proofreading the script and @flanjon for help with so many monster designs!
Music Used:
Spyro2 : Ripto’s Rage – Glimmer
Dragon Quest Monsters: Terry’s Wonderland – Win The Game
@HugoFherVhdz – [Orchestral Remix] Cerulean City – Pokémon Red/Blue
https://youtu.be/oat15OHtZmY?si=_EZiYPMKvAfnjxlK
@qumumusic – Pokémon Red/Blue/Yellow – Pallet Town [Remix]
https://youtu.be/yroYk0jOo-8?si=WmObqOG5w600nE9v
@Bulby – Pokémon Colosseum Normal Battle 8 Bit Remix (Konami VRC6)
https://youtu.be/pNP1whfyva0?si=KQRxXFj5xPViYY6N
@kenzonflomusic – [8-bit/Chiptune] Pokémon XY: Opening 1 (Volt)
https://youtu.be/Ku5W7856hYw?si=w5JjePqr_HHQLGzC
Dragon Quest 8 – Main Theme
Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch – Main Theme
Yo-Kai Watch 2 – VS Yo-Kai 2
Snack World – Title Theme
Yo-Kai Watch Busters – Busters HIdeout
Yo-Kai Watch – Namae wo Kimeyou! 2
👉 Want to learn more about Yo-Kai Watch’s good game design and its battle system? https://youtu.be/HBxroYDBTZk?si=k_XtCzBuBvgsMMsB
👉 Want to see more examples of Pokemon’s bad game design from its battle system compared to Yo-Kai Watch’s? https://youtu.be/mQzo31-vXco?si=fueFWvuU4U3vJNSe
👉 Want to learn about Pokemon’s bad game design including how it’s nowhere near as strategic as chess? https://youtu.be/iP_sep_XHqQ?si=Aq2-sW4-uFGb_stS
#yokaiwatch3
#yokaiwatch
#slaking
#pokemon
#competitivepokemon
#competitiveyokaiwatch
#pokemonlegendsza
#妖怪ウォッチ
#competitive
#monstertamer
#monstertaming
#metagame
#metagames
#ninokuni
#snackworld
#dragonquest8
#dragonquestmonsters
#dragonite
#salamence
#indiegame
#gamedesign
#worldbuilding
source
What I learned from this video is that monster families > monster elemental types.
Oh maybe talk about evolution in your game?
saw it live. I will say, I'm one of the very few people who don't like dragon types and your statement about them more fitting as family type than an element really clicks to me. for each generation and onward, I've grown more disinterest by them since it becomes an mandatory type combination for a lot of Pseudo Legendaries/ Legendary Pokemon that it becomes less special to me. I just wish we could get mons like Tyranitar and Metagross, but I want to see some change ups like that I might as well check up on fangames.
on the other note, I like the monster designs you made from your project. the spritework reminds me of some of the monsters from one of my favorite RPGs, Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass.
I agree. Over the years dragons have lost their like special-ness. Like as a kid when you got a dragon it was like omg! Now it’s like oh…an apple….
I imagine you feel the same about Fairy type (Pokemon)?
You seem to be inspired by a good range of games and media, but looking at books may be worth your while. I recommend A Natural History of Dragons: A Memoir of Lady Trent (first book in a series, but I think it is great for thinking about worldbuilding with fictional creatures – 2nd book is great too).
Goated video, loved the analysis and I'm looking forward to the concepts you plan on using for your game 🔥
I remember being young and finding Dragon type Pokemon very annoying to deal with thanks me sucking at games as a kid but also thanks to their annoying resistances + most Ice Pokemon being ass outside of exceptions like Lapras, Froslass, Weavile,etc.
Then again my younger dumbass never thought to train an ice type or just give a water mon an Ice move till I was like 15 or so.
Ice should resist Dragon, Grass, Bug, and Flying.
Pokemon is a cancer
Meanwhile Digimon, it as reptile of any type, is a Dramon, and is weak to beast type, but in the case of Digimon Story, every family usually is assigned to an element, Dramon-Fire, Beast-Ground, Metal-Metal, Plant and Insect-Electric, Aquatic- Ice, at least in the 2 first stories since in lost evolution now every digimon has weakness to an specific element.
This is why I've been supportive of the game D.A.M. Champion. The budget isn't there, but the mindset of the studio is on point.
i live for the ni no kuni glazing 🔥🔥🔥
As both a pokemon gen 3 OU player and a ykw3 player i will give here my personal take:
Dragon as a defensive tipe with a few members seems good for me, like some kind of upgrade of Normal type with access to a top tier set up move (Dragon Dance). The problem with dragon types started when the started taking advantage of that dragon type for offensive purposes with physical-special split and some directly op moves introduced in gen 4 like outrage or draco meteor, since this let the dragon types with already high offensive stats become offensive beasts with a boosted normal type stab without some kind of hard counterplay like ghost types. This only becomes worse in gen 5, where the ammount of dragon types becomes so high at the same time that practically all the full evolved ones are good (only Druddigon and altaria could be considered bad and Flygon who isn't used that much more because is outclassed than because he is a bad option) (all of this in a weather oriented metagame while practically all of them don't take any real advantage from them, only exception being Kingdra who has literrally a clause dedicated to hard-nerfing his whole role). In this situation I thing that even buffing ice types was a good option, the priorioty was creating a defensive hardcounter to them with an inmunity to dragon type moves. Giving that inmunity to ice types would be useless (the only way i can see this working is reworking all the defensive traits of ice type), giving that inmunity to steel types would make them even strongest as a defensive type (and yes, i think that making steel type a counter to the fairy type was a bad idea), so the only other option for creating this counter is using that for buffing one of the other bad types: poison or bug type. The problem with this is that the only good bug defensive types i can think are bug steel, and the only good defensive poison types (that aren't weak to one of the already common moves in this offensive dragon type pokemons, earthquake) would be weezing and amoonguss. So I think that the creation of a new type was necesary (but not in the way that it ended being another broken type as fairy tipe ended being). My biggest problem with fairy type is that it also nerfed the dragon type as a defensive type, lowering futher than probably needed at the point that being a dragon type was no longer special and creating tons of dragon types of lower power become and option for game freak. This is a general sentiment that i have when I compare old gens and modern gens: Practically pokemon types have lost their "personality" in a trade of variety of options for each type, this can be easily be see in ghost types (no longer are only that spin blocker type) , dark (no longer are those pursuit abussers) , steel (no longer are that extremely bulkie type with few offensive advantage) , water (no longer that defensive type with no phisical weakness) or dragon (bulkie offensive pokemon who traded very valuable defenses in exchange of no realiable stab). Yeah, there are still pokemon or even some types that conserves this kind of gameplay personality , but with the increase of number of pokemon the exceptions to this kind of personalities have become practically the rule from my point of view.
In respect to dragon oriented designs in yokai watch or the slippery tribe in general, i felt like even if his tribe bonus is outdated in 3 metagame (I like his importance in 2 metagame as a direct counter to the whole inspirit oriented metagame), his diversity in roles and options solves this (probably if they had a good tribe bonus would be even broken, also the unique good unity effect that come to my mind would be an increase in soultmeter gain per turne , which feels with the potencial of broken the game from my point of view). I would like to advertise you about a potencial problem I see with your own dragon tribe: I see incompatible a tribe with few members and a key unity as it the Str bonus.
For ending this message i will like to ask you if you are interested in knowing the exact effects of tribe bonus in ykw/ykw2/ykw3 , since is something that I research myself some time ago from the game files (the cfg.bins, files oriented to storing data and values very present in the 3 games) and maybe you will like to know for your own game.
Crab makes more sense as a type than dragon.
yeah, I agree with this. Gamefreak really wrote themselves into a corner when they made dragonite in gen 1.
I can get where they were coming from when they made dragonite- it was the only dragon-type evolution line in the game so it sort of felt like a dragon quest monster (because it had a weakness/resistance chart that it shared with no other pokemon) and its typing was strong, befitting of its status as a big, badass dragon (that also happened to kind of look like barney the dinosaur)
the problem started when they made sequels and clearly had no fucking clue what to do with the type. At first, they were too strong in competitive like you mentioned, so they tried reigning them in with the fairy type… but that didn't end up well so they started making weak dragons and now the supposedly-badass dragon type feels like any other type flavor-wise. They don't feel imposing anymore and it sucks to see that happen to DRAGONS.
Separating monster families from elemental types really is the way to go- it gives you so much more wiggle room to design monsters
Your title provokes me
Logically speaking, I think ice types should resist steel types not weak against it and steel types should be weak to ice types because metals get brittle in cold temperatures.
The Dragon type in Pokémon is explained by two things: In some media, specially eastern inspired, there is the notion of dragon energy or dragon magic. In feng shui its believe there are energy streams surrounding the planet, and the biggest spots of that energy are known as dragon veins in chinese. So dragon as a element is not out of place.
The second reason is because Pokémon types seems to be inspired both on elements and family of monsters. Just think how Bug, Ghost and Fairy are considered types in Pokémon.
Probably it came from limitations at the time of the first games, where they might have wanted to have elements and monster family as different categories, but the Game Boy couldn't handle that much information. Or they just simplified things so kids can easily understand.
In fact their equivalent of monster families are actually Egg Groups. Is a hidden category where they classified Pokémon based on similar body features, like plant like Pokémon are considered part of the Plant Egg Group, many normal and land Pokémon are on the Field Group (their equivalent of Beast), and the Monster Egg Group are those they remind of dinosaurs and kaijus.
I like the look of that Earthbound-Kraken-inspired monster you have!
Lots of thoughts first nice vid and hope the game goes well. (:
I imagine you think the same for fairy,bug and ghost and to an extension flying(bird type alot of the time). Also I want to recomend you if you havent seen the channel Lockstin & Gnoggin and their explaining of what are every singke pokemon type I recomend the dragon and fairy video for last.
To everyone here, at least to me its nice the variety of that all dragon pokemon are dragon type but not all draconic pokemon are dragon type and dragons are still special almost all pseudo legendaries are dragon and alot of the most powerful legends are dragon. Its like a spectrum some are just little lizards while others are gods
Back to your game I imagine the type chart while be similar to pokemon minus fairy,dragon,bug and ghost. Flying would be the air type and rock/ground would be 1 type
Something I recommend its that you keep an equivalent of fairy and ghost. Fairy mix it with psychic and call it like the magic type. And mix dark(the evil part of the type) with ghost for like a dark magic type.Also it would be fascinating if in that "dark magic" type there was demon magic like the counter part of fairy
Also will there be sound and light type? It would be interesting for light,magic,dark and "dark magic"(dont know of a better bame) to be their own types that get grouped often but aren't necessarily linked together.
For me the best type chart would be fusing rock and ground and adding sound, light and a "demon" type.
Would you have a normal and/or typeless(the ??? type) type to your game
Lastly you can also do sudo type moves like what sound,light are, for example a move like dragon pulse would be of the fire element but any draconic creature that learns it deals an additional % of damage due to being a dragon and it being of their nature.
Im going to stop there as not to bother you with my ramblings because I want to ask you about items,abilities,moves like freeze dry an ice move that deals supereffective damage to water