This week the crew is back for episode 304!
——————————————————–
Check Out DCP’s New MERCH! store.streamelements.com/dcp_live
Find all of the DCP Members on Twitter: @teft | @TheBriarRabbit | @myelingames | @Mrs5oooWatts
Art by Ash: @AR_McD
Social Media and Twitch Management by Mr_Ar3s: @Mr_Ar3s
——————————————————–
Join us on our DCP LIVE Twitch Channel!
https://www.twitch.tv/dcp_live/
Our Patreon is now LIVE!
https://www.patreon.com/dcp_live
Join our DCP Discord Server!
https://discord.gg/dcp
——————————————————–
We have a new merch store! Exclusive t-shirts and more incoming!
source
A couple of thoughts:
1. Is it possible that Watts keeps matching with the same high ranked players because PC and console are split groups, so the PC top end is an even smaller pool than usual?
What if she went and played on console?
2. I’ve had more fun with PvP since SBMM went on, but I’ve also changed my stick settings. So Idk if I’m playing better due to the SBMM changes or if its because I’m better at nailing shots because I changed my ads and look speeds?
I disagree with people wanting to the legendary campaign just for the challenge of it, I think the rewards was a great incentive to trying it out. Not only did you get to skip A LOT of the power level grind by completing the legendary version but you got to choose one of the new exotics at the end, plus it gave you hella upgrade modules which is much needed at the beginning of a season like that. Take away all those things & I probably don’t bother with the legendary version that much.
also if you are a high tier PVP person use your skill and be better.
If 0.1% are having Ms Watts experience and everyone else is doing ok, its worth it right?
I'm in the top 10%, unbroken/flawless and its a little rough for me but im growing into it. Personally i would just like the games to be shorter if we are going to sweat this hard for games.
Thanks for the contribution today Ms Watts great podcast today!
For the first time in 3+ seasons I'm actually enjoying Control. I think I'm a below average player (1.65 kda), but the matchmaking hasn't been too bad (time wise).
My experience with SBMM is completely different. 6 or 7 straight matches one 50+ point blowouts. Every single game had a 60-70% win chance for 1 of the teams. What I think will happen is they'll make SBMM even tighter if the average player like myself is the barometer for this experiement.
SBMM hasn't been a great experience at all, I'm not the best player by any means but the increase in lag and sweaty players kills it for me. Might sit the season out until Bungie inevitably reverts it. Tiring to have to see Bungie make the same mistakes over and over again.
You could just put on lower light gear to simulate contest mode can you?
I think pvp is just impossible to balance. Sir d made a great video on the different weapons and archetypes of said weapons and its crazy. Auto rifles feel terrible while everything else feels fine within their parameters. I love destiny pvp but if I have to sweat and use the same load out, it gets as dry as doing the same strike over and over. As for kings fall, loved it. I always wanted to do it as a d2 only player and this adaption is one I am happy to grind even when I've done my clears for the week. Absolutely fantastic in terms of themes and chaos
Yeesh. Out of touch this week.
Dreadnought is a ship Oryx spawns portside
I love Watts and I love Aztecross but as a below average player with years of having to sweat my balls off just to get a few kills they can cry me a river about not being able to pubstomp trash players like me with meme loadouts.
I am an average player and matchmaking is about 30-40 seconds
100th like!!!
I think I missed something, why did they remove episodes involving other guests?
How about just remove normal mode lol and replace it with contest and keep master? Also d1 raids felt more like dark souls than anything in d2 for me personally..
One note: Touch of Malice actually DID heal you after three kills in D1, it was a feature I basically never used, but it was there
This is not specific to Destiny when it comes to SBMM. When watts said other games have ranked and pubs. Pubs in almost every other game also has SBMM we’ve been complaining about this in other games for a decade. It will not change.
This is the second time they've mentioned one of their guests turned out to be a shit person and I honestly can't remember a guest they had on that was a shit person
1. SBMM was implemented for one playlist. Hop into rumble, elimination, or rotator.
2. Most players had to sweat harder before than you do now.
3. If you are hopping in to goof around with a load out, you can still do it. You’ll just lose. Which doesn’t matter because you are just chilling and goofing around, right?
I do empathize with the long wait times to find same skilled players. That does suck.
Im yelling at a cloud.
As someone who isn't great at pvp I wish Watts and every other top tier pvp player seems to not understand is that while she may not enjoy sweating and having to use metta loadouts, I can guarantee she would enjoy it even less doing the same and getting destroyed by way better players.
As someone who comes back to the game for big chunks of playing, and taking a break, I have enjoyed pvp more. When I get my shot back I might tear my hair out more.
Make control connection based and make an actual ranked playlist with SBMM, seasonal refreshes, loot ladders, titles etc. – this seems like such an easy solution and I wonder if Bungie is letting perfect (read new exciting trials esque mode) be the enemy of progress (read something so the kids stop eating each other)
Hot take maybe? Literally no opinions on sbmm matter while we don’t have dedicated pvp servers. Sbmm won’t work because it destroys connections the tighter it is. And cbmm won’t work when they have to put such crazy lobby balancing measures In Place, stacking one god player with a team of complete casuals who get farmed and hate the game
Pretty sure the story mode on hard is contest mode tefty 😅
Feel free to view my crucible report and make your own assessment “nine-IXI”
It is so cathartic to hear the sweats hate the crucible as much as I always have. Everything Watts complained about is a self correcting problem. Play with off meta load outs until you fall to lobbies where those loud outs are viable.
The notion that top players “sweat” and low-ELO players “cruise” is extremely illogical. Relative to their skill level, low-mid players have been ‘sweating’ far longer and harder than the top players, because they have been, on average, playing harder games (again, relative to their skill level).
Me doing a 150kg deadlift is no less “sweaty” than some 120kg-unit-powerlifter doing near his 400kg PR, just because my weight would be ‘cruisy’ relative to him.
Not a dig at anyone on the podcast btw, love all your work ✌️
I think selectable contest mode should maybe at least have an emblem/ghost/ship or something to show people, "look i did kings fall on contest mode"
Someone clip watts at 1:59:38. Uh dis crucible pretty nice. I’m gonna play comp. Dey not playing comp.
Dedicated comp playlist with sbmm and, wait for it, rewards. Not just a shitty legendary smg and some glimmer. Emblems, shaders, ornaments
Bungie name is Dresdan I play warlock exclusively you can find me on d2 tracker I am a bot, that being said…
The skill based matchmaking issue is the result of a multitude of factors. I believe one that wasn't spoken of here is how the menu funnels you into certain gamemodes.
When you go to play pvp you have 1-2 options generally immediately, they are control and trials/IB. This presents the first issue; the menu has 4-6 options usually but only 1-3 of them are made obvious which creates the first filter.
Bungie should condense all casual and glory modes into two independent playlists and give players the option to choose which modes to que for.
The problem this solves is player separation. Having multiple different playlists means you are splitting the player base between each of those playlists. Giving the matchmaker more people to choose from benefits everyone.
All casual playlists should be cbmm followed by lobby balancing. You as a player should know going in that there is a chance of finding frostbolt on the enemy team and getting shit stomped its only natural.
For those who don't want to get stomped they should be going to the glory playlist where sbmm takes priority.
Anecdotally it seems that the loose skill based matchmaking wasn't as loose as bungie made it out to be. The matchmaker has trouble building lobbies for the high tier players it needs to be looser. Moreover, if the match maker can't fill out lobbies after people leave then it should end those matches so that the players can be put into new lobbies. In this respect it should act aggressively in addition to giving those players que priority.
Players also need to be given stronger incentives to play pvp to combat potentially low player population. Weapons alone are not enough, so they could try introducing eververse cosmetics to the loot table or adding upgrade materials to the playlists.
These are just a few thoughts and non of this is easy, however no matter how much you hate getting stomped punishing people for improving is not and never has been a viable solution.
Kings Fall was great on day 1. It's still great now, but it's almost too easy and I can't wait until the master mode comes out.
As for PVP, I've always been a slightly above average player and I don't really see a difference in the moment to moment gameplay. Matches are generally tighter in score and I do see more games going to time. I can honestly say that I've never not enjoyed pvp through D1 or D2. I understand what pvp is for me and I can always go in and have fun, so long as the connection issues don't take over. What I do miss, is occasionally running up against iFrostbolt, Aztecross, Benny or Cammycakes and having the opportunity to pass or fail against the better players.
I feel like SBMM is one step on the path to better pvp. Once there are more game modes and people have more options that don't include an SBMM playlist, I think it will be better.
Great show, gang. Can't wait til next week!
I think anything and everything in the game, you should be able to earn in either PvP or PvE, or a mix of both, instead of being forced to play parts of the game you have little interest in. I won't even do the Gjallarhorn quest because I tried it solo and it's so bloody annoying that I'd rather face 6 stacks of sweaties in Control all day than do that quest. I should be able to do a PvP-related quest to get it, or just go back to D1's random chance of getting anything in the game. 😛 That's how I got Gjally then: pretty sure it was from a Crucible match reward.
Also, I only play D2 for Quickplay, literally. I hate doing anything else in D2. I like murdering other players in creative ways.
Mrs watts is complaining because she has to run the meta to have a chance with sbmm. Doesn’t the lower skilled players have to always run the meta just to stand a chance of victory without sbmm? We really need 2 different playlists so everyone can play how they want
I think you guys made a couple of observations about negative occurrences that I feel were directly related to the new inflow of players, thanks to Epic Game store collab.
Increase of quitters: EPIC GAMES…new and casual players always quit, because they don't care.
Increase of high skill and low skill wait times in Crucible: EPIC GAMES (counter intuitive, unless you understand that a bigger population of average skill, naturally diminishes the population of outlier skill level. Think of a bell curve. High skill and low skill are at the bottom 'curves' of the bell)
Just my two cents
With respect, Briar, Destiny is a game that is mostly about shooting (though one could argue that our Guardian abilities are so OP right now that abilities is also a substantial focus). Anyway, there is only so much the developers can do to diversify the mechanics in the game and if you take a step back and look at Destiny as a whole, the attempts made to switch it up mechanically is an admirable one. Sure it's not perfect and there's always room for improvement, but that's par for the course in an ever-evolving live service looter-shooter.
Holy crap, just noticed. We now have 600 spots in our vault!
wasn't sbmm supposed to be loose? but then they also say they want most games to be within like 10 points. those 2 ideas are contradictory. anecdotally, if feels like many games, not just d2, have lost sight of "fun" the casual playlist should be FUN. Also loved how myelin blew up on that guy, hilarious.edit: briar brought up a GREAT point on the numbers and how they talked about it feeling a little weird considering all the factors, unrelated to actual gameplay, that would have contributed to a larger amount of people in crucible.
No the SBMM is necessary. You can't make just one playlist with it because good players will avoid it and go to the casual playlist to shit on worse players 9 times out of 10, you don't play sweaty destiny PvP for the fun of it. So for the top of the top PvP players, im glad you have to actually try now, and if you get shit on, welcome to what literally everyone else in Destiny experiences every single time they go into Crucible
The way you all complain about leveling is crazy. It's three gambit matches and u have a week to do it. It's ok. Or 3 crucible matches. Or three strikes. It's not that serious. Relax
Waaaaaaaawaaaaaaa. I can't destroy normies in crucible anymore
So far the only people I'm seeing complain about SBMM are in the upper-echelon. Everyone else is having a blast.
QUITTER. PENALTIES. Crucible needs protection against cowards coddling their K/Ds. Quitters are sabotaging the game – and the more that is exposed as the flaw, the more frequently they’ll quit in attempts to force easier games for themselves.
1:13:00 its saying that for 90% of games, the average skill was between -100 and 300 for Non-SBMM. The skill range is from -1000 to 1000 if im not mistaken. The way to interpret this, is everyone was being thrown into the game willy nilly. Really bad (-600 player) vs really good (600 player) would even out to 0. If 90 of all matches are -100 to 300 averaged skill for the players of that lobby, then the game is effectively random, and you are not being matched with players of your respective skill. It is NOT saying that 90% of matches had players ranging from -100 skill to 300 skill. This is the averaged skill of the entire lobby, not the skill range of the individual players in the lobby.
With SBMM, what they are seeing, are a lot of games with averaged score being near 600 (average skill of the lobby is high, so these are your good player lobbies, all around 600ish average, instead of the average skill being brought down by lower skill players), and -600ish average lobbies (mostly bad players matching bad players, not having the lobby's average get dragged up by good players in the lobby who don't belong there) and some games averaging as low as -900 skill (super bad players being matches with only super bad players, and no high skill people dragging up the lobby's average skill)
It's awkward to read, but it essentially says they ars seeing far more games where players are being matched with players of similar skill only, and they are not being matched with people who don't belong in their bracket, bringing the average close to 0