Check out Advanced GG’s shakers and gaming supplements and use code “Byf” or “LoreDaddy” for 10% off! https://advanced.gg/?ref=LoreDaddy Destiny 2’s Lore and Story drops hints at the constant communications from The Darkness. Whilst some of these communications definitely come from The Witness, some of them don’t fit the Witness’ character. There is a character called the Winnower that does fit with those actions and they’re a mythical and core part to the story of the Darkness, The Traveller and the Gardener. Today we’re exploring the Winnower and whether they exist or not.
Venextron’s thoughts on the matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNyM5zYFVR0
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This is embarrassing to admit since I've been playing since day one D1, and I've watched alot of lore videos on them… and the damn name… I just realized Saint-14 is an Exo….
Edit: Maybe I did know and just completely forgot? I dunno. /shrug
25:58 your teammates body when they died made me laugh so hard, I hate how funny that was to me
Could the veiled woman be the Gardener in mourning? Hence the (V)veil?
Nevermind, Byf answered that. Yes. The answer is yes. 😅
Elsie bray?
Great video, Byf! I love your stuff.
I fully admit I'm a lore neophyte, but I was wondering re: the stump of the tree of silver wings: isn't the Black Garden a Vex simulation of their understanding of the unveiling? If so, isn't it possible (the Vex being machines and all) that in their simulation they literalized things (like the tree/stump) that are metaphorical?
4:37 dune-ussy reference??
T L D W 😭
Great video and I didn’t fall asleep.
Only gripe is on YouTube side. The amount of ads were insane, like every 5 min
Random thought from a potentially misunderstood phrase. "An evil army of corrupted taken." 1. Could there be uncorrupted taken? Like could that phrase mean that that they are corrupted AND taken instead of corruption turned them into taken? 2. If so could guardians be considered taken since they are "taken" from death?
I mean, we've planted a tree ourselves, so others could've done it as well?
Why can't the tree in Black Garden be a 1000th generation of an original tree.
There are still gaps in story to call Black Garden the garden from the original flower game.
I always interpreted the Gardener and Winnower as metaphor for the paracausal forces of life and creation used by The Traveler and the forces of death and entropy wielded by The Traveler's antagonist(s).
I don't care what they say, the Gardner and the winnower were originally 2 separate, different god like beings. Not the witness. Truly believe they are just tweeking the story a little if it turns out it is the witness.
Why the dune bucket? WHYYYYYY
i couldnt get through venextron's video. I barely made it a few minutes into the video because it rang too similarly to the same kind of video an alt-right conspiracy theorists nut would make, and it really put me off. I don't think a lore video should be an hour and a half egotrip.
Plot Twist: The voice in the trailer has been Eva Levante; who has been the Gardener this whole time haha
Wouldn’t that be a wild revelation?
I was curious why the Winnower would let the Witness initiate its Final Shape given such a scenario would seem to be in direct opposition to the Winnower’s desire for life to constantly struggle & persevere.
Then I considered, what if the Winnower sees it as the ultimate test of life? I believe it thinks the Final Shape will spur us into a struggle like no other & see us emerge strong enough to defeat the Witness.
The traveler is looking for strength and it leaves weakness behind that’s y it the witness but was drawn to it when it returned the traveler is the Winnower and we have yet to see the Gardner
With the sleep thing, your voice is very calming so props to you for seeing the positive side of the comments.
34:14 one thing to note here however, the books of sorrow may have an unreliable narrator as it is written by Oryx and just like with Calus it may have been changed to better suit Oryx’s narrative and position among the Hive. Savathûn even goes as far as to tell us these books are full of lies…though she could be lying herself…it’s hard to know…
Also note, at this point Rhulk has been defeated by us as well at this point and Savathûn’s betrayal and taking of the light may have caused the Witness to be less patient and forgiving. Not to mention also that Calus is a bumbling idiot so the Witness isn’t really patient with him…as he is standing outside the Traveler waiting for him to succeed while he wastes time with pomp and circumstance.
I am actually convinced that the Winnower is absent from this, due to the fact that when the game was played, no matter how they played it, eventually one outcome would become dominant no matter what the Gardener or the Winnower did or how they played. Then the Gardener wanted to add to the game, because it couldn't accept the outcome, while the Winnower did, so this is why I think that the Winnower is not part of this, the Witness is the inevitable outcome, there is no point according to Winnower to fight it, thus why would it be involved or care.
I think it’s worth mentioning that in the quest for Deterministic Chaos you find a Seed of Silver Wings in Calus’ pyramid ship which then sends you the Black Garden – The origin of the first tree in order to shape this new gun that Rohan was working on. This definitely isn’t an accident, the connection of the Tree of Silver Wings and the Black Garden is intentional and has been ongoing for years
The witness is either super fascinated by us or is really toying with us.
Plot twist we are the winoer and that’s why we were able to wield prismatic!
Sooo…the Feather in the trailer of final shape means something.
I personally think we may have gotten our first REAL glimpse of the Winower, thanks to the FS launch trailer we saw yesterday. Specifically that black robed figure that Zavala saw.
17:40 you forget point #4. We know what the Witness is and what the Witness used to be. An ancient, advanced civilization, a biological species that evolved over time within the universe. A product of the universe. The Winnower, if it exists, is a deity of creation. A literal god with no beginning and no end that has always existed, continues to exist, and will exist for eterny outside of space and time. A product of nothing that existed before the species that eventually became the Witness emerged from the primordial soup. The fundamental nature of the Winnower, again if it exists, is similar to that of the Abrahamic God from Semitic religions. A timeless deity that exists outside of space and time.
You can't even compare the natures of the Witness and the Winnower. The Witness is to the Winnower as an ant is to an elephant. There is no way that the Witness and Winnower could possibly be the same if the Winnower does in fact exist. You dont even need to look at the differences in pronoun usage or philosophies to come to this conclusion.
Wait, what? Are you serious? It took you this long to realize that the mesa in the black garde was the tree stump of the tree of silver wings?
Wow… ok.
Uh, so did you also miss that unveiling litterally tells you the origin of the vex and that some of them "found their way home"? To the black garden. Because the vex are litterally the physical manifestation of the pattern in the flower game.
Unveiling is, primarily, their origin story. And I think that was it's point right from the start.
The fact that the raid is a vex raid in the very garden unveiling describes should have given you a hint.
If the Black Garden is truly the Garden from Before Time, then that would explain why the Sol Divisive chose it as their location to commune with the Darkness rather than the Vault of Glass, or some other deep conflux. It also puts into perspective just how powerful the vex are – Sure, terraforming Io or Nessus or Mercury or Venus is a substantial effort, but terraforming the very existential origin point of the universe? It also makes you wonder how they got there – did they attempt to combine their powers of time manipulation with a desire to reconnect with the Precursors and their Dark nature, leading them to the Garden?
This certainly makes a lot more sense than the Vex having created the Black Garden – the swathes of it that aren't made of Vex architecture (unless there's an Axis Mind that's really into foliage that spreads out when you shoot it – I wouldn't put it past them) remind me much more of a partially converted Nessus than the Vault of Glass, a space the Vex created.
I wouldn’t mind if the witness is like Madara and the winnower is like Kaguya. But they better not take him out like they did Madara
personally i believe the witness to be the first knife
I reckon the veiled figure is the winnower. Or the darkness in some form. We can figure this out to a degree from the way in which the Statue presents itself – it is always in the same position, replicating the final shape that the Winnower envisions of the Flower Game in comparison to that of the Gardener, being constantly in motion. That would also provide another explanation for Saint's dream: the veiled woman speaks with similar(ish) mannerisms to the Winnower in the Books of Sorrow and Unveiling, and when she talks about Saint's 'father', (and being his 'mother' by extension) it could be a reference to the two parts of Clovis Bray and Clarity?
Honestly, as much as anything else, I'd like Micah-10 to be the voice we hear in the trailer. The voice has familiar enough Exo tones (although that could be other interference) and she, as a Dreamer (potentially) could be the perfect person to relate the Traveller's desire for us to attain Transcendence.
Drifter what are you doing with that vex?
Drift: I turned it into a time radio, I'm gonna mess with people across time, I think I got Oryx on the line…..ORYX MY MAN!
Honestly that winnower quote gave Callus vibes
i think an important note on the tree of silver wings is that its cultivation requires a place where dark and light meet. that's why io was the perfect place, it's both where the traveler's light is still fresh and where the corruption of the taken is strong. and the tree grew when a pyramid ship appeared above the place where it was planted. the black garden similarly would be a confluence for light and dark, especially if the gardener and winnower had been there
also i have a question. i might be misremembering or misunderstanding, but i thought the unveiling lore came from the weekly missions of the season of arrivals? you cleared savathun's taken interference so that you could receive a message through the tree of silver wings, and afterwards eris would give her own thoughts and context on those messages
"From my drippings spawns rapturous light."
That'll stick with me forever.
I honestly think that Bungie made a rather big mistake when they decided that the darkness represented and dealt with mental states etc, it would make honestly so much more thematic sense if the light was the one focused on the non physical and the darkness was focused on the physical, just take the fact that lightning(arc) Fire(solar) and Void all lack physical mass while stasis and strand each construct the physical space we act in.