Freddie Sayers meets David Fuller, founder of Rebel Wisdom.
Read the accompanying article: https://unherd.com/thepost/david-fuller-what-happened-to-jordan-peterson/
Listen to the podcast: https://shows.acast.com/lockdowntv-with-freddie-sayers/david-fuller-what-happened-to-jordan-peterson
Followers of the clinical psychologist and now world-famous member of the ‘Intellectual Dark Web’, Jordan Peterson, have noted a radical change in his video style in recent weeks. For David Fuller, founder of Rebel Wisdom, these videos ‘signalled a watershed moment’ for Peterson, from truth-seeker and mediator between Left and Right to a blinkered tribalist. UnHerd’s Freddie Sayers sat down in the studio with Fuller to dig a little deeper into his reservations about Jordan Peterson and alternative media’s part in this story.
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// TIMECODES //
00:00 – 00:51 – Introduction
00:51 – 05:18 – Does Jordan Peterson still have a positive contribution to the public debate?
05:18 – 06:33 – What is Fuller’s take on Peterson’s Elliot Page tweet?
06:33 – 12:04 – Is Peterson becoming aggressive?
12:04 – 15:42 – What is Peterson’s role in the culture war?
15:42 – 18:10 – Is Jordan Peterson better suited to being a character who strongly defends one side of the culture war?
18:10 – 22:50 – Is it in the nature of humans to be able to understands all sides of an argument? Does that hinder progression?
22:50 – 26:07 – Is the shutting down of Rebel Wisdom, a reflection of the current state of the alternative media?
26:07 – 29:01 – Does the mainstream or alternative media challenge it’s guests and their viewpoints enough?
29:01 – 30:52 – What is the ideal way for media of any kind to conduct public debates? How transparent should they be?
30:52 – 36:39 – Are we living in a civilisational decline?
36:39 – 43:23 – Is it possible to be a civilisation that share a single set of principles?
43:23 – 46:14 – What can we do as individuals to improve the overall outcome of our civilisational movement towards seeking the truth in public discussion?
46:14 – 47:03 – Concluding thoughts
#JordanPeterson #RebelWisdom #UnHerd
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JP tends to lean too hard on statements which produce excessive shock value, but most of the time he isn't wrong. The Twitter frenzy over comments he made about the overweight model show how insane the woke culture has become. He didn't use the word FAT he just said he didn't find her beautiful – and the internet went insane. Fat activism, like many other cultural movements has made it impossible to have an opinion that doesn't follow the narrative, and that's ultimately what JP is pushing back against.
I am sort of with this discussion up until Sayers (who I think may be my favorite new thinker) starts to imply that maybe folks have always been this divided…. around minute mark 37. So I would havae responded, "Yes absolutely." But the good ones like Marcus Arelius, Jesus, Bruno, MLK, Jr., and any number of others were sought out for the sole purpose to be destroyed by these groups who just wanted to think whatever they thought. In other words, the best of us, from time then to time now, get crucified by this idea Sayers puts out — that somehow we can all just live in peace and believe what we want. History has demonstrated that every time this ill-mannered concept has been in effect — good people die. I'd like to hear him address that.
I only know who Fuller is because he did multiple shows on Bret Weinstein, without having Bret there, and basically badmouthed him. I believe he even had his brother Eric on, which is a low blow in my opinion. Fuller has this attitude like we the audience are too stupid to do our own research. Ooh, we’ll be conned by the scary anti vaxxers! Keep burning those bridges Fuller. As far as Peterson goes, yes, I also agree that he seems more angry in general BUT if you look at how he got famous in the first place, it was him FIRMLY taking a stand on one issue. He’s still taking that same stand on that same issue. So no, this isn’t out of character for Peterson.
In a land of docile sheep, an act of righteous forceful indignation – standing up to bullshit like a traditional male protector of the family, the community – is a revolutionary act completely lost on this small minded guest.
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic thinking that feels nothing is worth a war is worse. A man who thinks there is nothing worth fighting for, and who cares about little more than he does about his own personal safety, if a miserable creature who can never be free unless made, and kept so, by the exertions of better men than himself. -John Stuart Mill.
This might help clarify his motives. A small throwaway comment at the end of his interview with Rob Dreher, he said he switched to Daily Wire to ensure his content would be preserved. There's a real fear that the twitters and youtubes will suddenly cut you off from your audience. Twitter just banned James Lindsay. The kinds of comments are harsh and impolite but one can find comparable things from the other side that don't get banned or treated in the same way. "who decides" is the question and the people who decide are playing to win, and percieve you as an enemy. So this forces you to be part of a "side" you may not have wished to join initially. But if it welcomes you and the other pushes you, there are two forces. I liked it better before when there was a sense he was a free agent. But it is understandable as David says.
This bloke does not get how implacable the radical left is. He still thinks they can be reasoned with, or there’s some middle ground to be found.
Doesn’t like that JP dug in over the Twatter ban and has hardened his overall approach.
He’s a sanctimonious fool who is more than ready to run up a white flag. He’s the reason the left win.
David – its not about you – people – Jordan Peterson – can hold different opinions – its amazing – but that makes them human. You should think about arguing the ideas. You are still stuck with cult figures – people with different thinking – thats the future
Waw so because he has to the realisation that being woke is basically stupid and a man is man and a woman is woman and obesity is a disease and body positivity is denying the reality that being fat is unhealthy and men playing in womens sports is wrong on every level. And the fact that Trudeau has gone crazy and an authoritarian then okay. I suppose I understand your sentiments.
Finally, a voice of sanity and wisdom amidst the chaos of a civil war that no side can win
Jordan Peterson hmmm very over rated
The hysterical comments just confirm david's point, this combative mindset is a contingent part of the holding pattern which precludes overcoming the problem
What have we lost by losing religion ohhhh puuulleeeasseeee .Last time i looked Religion was involved in all sorts of hocus pocus and mumbo jumbo and conflicts on an international scale. Man you are not paying attention
Freddy you are killing it as ever
Keep up the good work
He had some good points. I am fan of Jordan Peterson and was surprised to find myself agreeing with points. A follow-up interview with both parties would be an excellent follow-up.
This guy is the definition of a parasite
Jordan Peterson is not a right-winger, he tries to set up a boundary between liberal and radical left, which currently does not exist. However, there is definitely a boundary between conservative and radical right.
I believe that David is a good dude, he's changed my view on a lot of things over the years and he changed my view a bit on Jordan, but I agree with what a lot of people are saying in the comments; we have to pick sides when it comes to certain topics. Jordan knows how many people, mostly young children, who will see Elliot Page and resonate with them in some way because they themselves struggle deeply with their identities, because Gen Z is so lost and confused and without community, way more so that boomers today. Think about that, the lack of community for gen Z breaks my fucking heart. They lack community so much, and anyone who lacks community is free game for ideologies and social movements. He knows that there is most likely a "social contagion" happening here, not too dissimilar to psychogeneic illness. These young children to young adults live on social media now, one of the most polarizing and confusing landscapes. It's harming their development. Jordan wants to save these people from having to undergo surgeries that most likely aren't going to help them and cause them suffering. I totally agree, now that I've had more time to think about it, that Jordan took it way too far and lost his composure. I think in some way, he has the right to do that, but it didn't convince or win over the general audience, the people he needs to reach. He's correct in most ways. He's the expert in psychology, but he did it in a petty and angry way, much like the SJW mob does; he did, in a sense, stoop down to their level (at least in presentation). Another gripe I have with David here is that he says that the alternative media isn't having on the other side of the debate. No wonder. They're not going to debate these people. As is the case with Joe Rogan, he reached out to experts to debate Peter McCullough, Pierre Cory, Robert Malone, and they all refused to debate. Why debate when you've already won by default, when you get the praise of the mainstream press. Also, David, you forget that Joe Rogan had on Peter Hotez, Sanjay Gupta and Michael Osterholm (twice I believe). Not one person will debate the ones who have legitimate questions about covid, alternative views on covid. Joe can't find anyone to debate the "heretics". We should absolutely proceed with caution and not blindly trust the "heretics". Also, I see the alternative media as a counterbalance. Rebel Wisdom has always been about getting at the truth, and I aplaud the care and attention to the truth, but sometimes you have to let people decide for themselves what the truth is. The mainstream corporate press is not interested in having those debates, they're only interested in their agenda. Besides, the alternative media is made up of people with differing opinions. They've been disinvited into the mainstream corporate press. They are the counterbalance. Last time I checked, we can all decide what's best for ourselves. We decreasingly have the ability to decide what's best for ourselves due to the rise of authoritarianism. The alternative media has been consistent in their aims and goals. People who go against the mainstream corporate press are genuinely (for the most part) moral people who are worried about justice. You have to be brave to go against the masses led by the narcisistic elite MSM, because they have the ability to take you out with hit pieces. Yeah, some of them don't do their due dilligence by not considering the other side or having a lively debate but the mainstream corporate press doesn't have to listen to them, the experts don't have to listen to them and they ignore them and do not debate them.
Bottom line is JP lost the plot. And that sadly makes his valuable messages worthless.
I greatly admire the truth that Jordan Peterson and Russel Brand bring to the conversation. I have never heard of David Fuller before, and after this video, I won’t seek him out. He is portraying himself as a voice of reason, but he is acting like a typical leftist zombie, he wants censor everyone who disagrees with him in the slightest.