Entry for the 2022 Orchestration Challenge by Patreon supporter David R. Turner.
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David: Great score!
Tbh, I wasn’t sure how I felt about this score, at first. It took a couple of listenings to absorb it. Unusually, this approach has a dark, ominous beginning, foreshadowing the drama to come. The sharp harmonies and extreme textures are a little alarming. Then, a contrasting delicate gauze of textures building up to a wild dance. There are a few touches of genius: bright colours shining through sombre textures. It feels more expressionist than impressionist, which enhances the bittersweet contrasting harmonies throughout the piece. A very engaging 20th Century approach!
Wow what an interesting take on this David. You certainly did take Thomas at his word when he said he was hoping for many differing interpretations of the original music. Kudos for doing so. This was really enjoyable to hear and review. I’m sure there are lots of points I have missed that Thomas has not addressed (I do not profess to be any kind of expert as I am new at this) but no doubt others will provide their comments.
Notes taken as I was watching (some might replicate Thomas’s comments):
– page 1 slurring on the strings makes no sense – slurs to/from tied notes should encompass all of the tied notes. bar 1 slurring in violins does not match that of the other strings
– bar 2 2nd violins – why “ord.” there is nothing to stop with this instruction
– bar 5 – both horn staves marked 1,3 – what does this mean?
– bar 6 timp marked “with Tuba” and vice versa – but they are not really playing the same line especially as the bass trombone is doubling this line – articulations are not the same. Watch Thomas’s video on use of timpani to (not) play a bass line
– bar 10 – no need for l.v. AND an incomplete tie (tam tam) – one or the other (see Gould page 72). snare drum/timp roll have incomplete ties but their rolls end at a different place – what is intended there?
– bar 11 onwards – your attempt to avoid “phrasus interruptus” was ingenious – not sure it totally works though
– bar 14 the notes at the end in the upper winds need to resolve at the start of the next bar (dovetailing into the brass) – although I think Thomas did not have a concern here so perhaps I am wrong
– bar 17 – I’m not sure that l.v. makes any sense on a celeste line (as contrasted with its use on harp)
– bar 27 love the trill – I wish I had thought to use flute trills in mine
– Reh C – more odd string slurring (which you did not repeat at D for some reason). Your mix of flautando and col legno and pizz is interesting – I wonder if you were experimenting and looking for some input here (which Thomas has provided) rather than necessarily being wedded to what you wrote
– S.D. stems are not consistent in direction
General comments
– need to think more about dynamic balance especially with entries- also some timbral balance issues
– good job thinking about the harp pedal changes (I have not checked them for accuracy) although I think you need to be more consistent with their placement in the part – it’s always worth having a harpist look over your score for these if you can
@Thomas – loved hearing your cat!! Puff and Zeus send their best wishes 😆
Thank you so much for sharing, David. Most enjoyable.
/Hugh Wallis
DAVID, I listened to the whole video. and then I stepped away and listened once more. The first time, the sounds that came up into my headphones were impressive. The second time, I took the suggestions that Thomas offered so generously and began to see how much BETTER it might have been had you incorporated them into your entry.
First thing, the now infamous "Phrasus Interruptus" quirk which so many of us, myself included, put into the score. I am finally convinced that using it does take away from the flow of the melody. I've heard every single entry so far and it has been drummed into me to the point where I will just have to say "uncle"! 🙂
The second thing, I think we have all learned this time around that the String Slurs cannot be take lightly. That is, that we must consider just how many notes can be fitted inside one stroke of the bow. Along this line, slurring across the bar line, especially in THIS piece, does take away from the strength of the downbeat.
The third thing, is the uselessness of a harp in any passage that will completely mask the beauty of the harp, specifically when brass played loudly, or heavily scored.
Alone the same lines, we orchestrators must understand the limitations of the celesta, marimba and other such instruments to compete will naturally loud instruments and judiciously consider their inclusion or exclusion when other instruments will obliterate what they are asked to play.
Lastly, connecting different sections by simple dovetailing and such will improve the flow of contrasting prior sections.
Finally, I really liked your scoring and the beauty of individual sections came through and provided ME with ideas that I might use in the future. Thanks for your entry! 🙂
A really intriguing score, David!
Great work David, many interesting ideas and a lot of variation in colour and expression.
Having the timpani in the beginning play practically the whole melody along as a bass line is quite a surprising idea, it gives a brooding, dark atmosphere. However, IMO, the top melody shouldn't be doubled at the bottom, it interferes with the (somewhat implicit) harmony and counterpoint. In general, watch your slurring. In the long run, try to develop a feeling for how bowing works. Watch and talk to string players (we don't bite, mostly:). I like the sixteenths fluttering in the winds at the start of section D, that's a very original take, although I'm not sure those ultra-low bassoons speak that easily IRL. Don't use random double stops in string melodies, they're mostly awkward and unnecessary. Let others take care of the harmony.
But all in all, fascinating score, keep up the good work!
This was really interesting to hear, and to hear Thomas's comments on! Speaking as someone who scored the first 10 bars for double wind quintet only, the opening here was pretty epic. 😀 "Filling in" the quarter notes of the melody around bar 7-8 with brass triplets was an interesting way to create activity.
This is a really interesting visit to the orchestrator’s workshop. For me it’s over-scored: I feel you’ve tried to show off your advanced abilities in colour at the expense of elegance. There are so many interesting combinations here, but it feels like a draft of interesting ideas. I’d love to see what your imagination could do in service to a more poetic treatment of the material. Very much looking forward to checking out your other work though.