A retrospective review of Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn, developed by Bioware Corporation and published in September 2000 by Black Isle Studios. Examines the context in which the game was developed, how it compares to the original, some of the mods available, and also differing perspectives on its place in the history of computer roleplaying games. Feel free to take breaks between chapters or just skip around using the timestamps if you’re only interested in a specific topic. Sorry for the stuffy audio at times – I’m definitely considering changing mic. Anyway, hope everyone enjoys it! Next video will be 1998’s Descent to Undermountain.
00:00 Opening
01:18 Chapter 1 – Introduction and Overview
09:40 Chapter 2 – Behind the Scenes
10:07 2.1 – Making Baldur’s Gate II
32:05 2.2 – Pre-Release Response
37:43 2.3 – The Throne of Bhaal Question
50:48 Chapter 3 – Gameplay
51:07 3.1 – Gameplay Basics and Overview
1:13:00 3.2 – On Combat and General Gameplay
1:45:26 3.3 – On Pacing and Exploration
2:00:21 3.4 – On Quest Design, Interactivity, and Throne of Bhaal
2:11:40 3.5 – Final Thoughts on Gameplay
2:16:17 Chapter 4 – Art and Sound
2:16:36 4.1 – Graphics and Art Direction
2:30:04 4.2 – Voice Acting, Sound Design and Music
2:40:24 4.3 – Playing BG2 Today, Alternate Versions
2:48:58 Chapter 5 – Story and Roleplaying
2:49:17 5.1 – Background Lore and Story Overview (Minor Spoilers)
3:03:45 5.2 – On Story and Setting (Mild Spoilers)
3:29:15 5.3 – On Roleplaying and Alignment (Mild Spoilers)
3:37:43 5.4 – On Companions and Continuity (Minor Spoilers)
3:52:12 5.5 – On Romance and Final Thoughts (Minor Spoilers)
4:03:00 Chapter 6 – Mods and User Content
4:03:18 6.1 – Mods and Modding Overview
4:20:25 6.2 – Classic Adventures
4:29:40 Final Thoughts
4:39:22 Acknowledgements
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1:30:30 Weird, if ever someone died in my party I always loaded save game so this never become a problem.
So this is why you disappeared from the shoutbox for several months
With the retrospective video game essay-market being so heavily over-saturated it's even more impressive how original this video is.
It's unbelievable how incredibly well the handdrawn graphics have passed the test of time … compared to, say, early 3d graphics.. it's just so beautiful!
Mr Edders this video is five hours long
Great review. I love BG2 but I often see people praising it on a pedestal without flaws. Despite the dense amount of side quest, exploration was more limited compared to the original and the story was way too linear compared to Fallout. Als9 just found that 3.5 DnD games with better combat tho the magic system in ADnD is top notch.
I really enjoyed your approach to this retrospective. It goes in depth on a lot of aspects you wouldn’t normally think about like the game’s development, and generally goes for more of an analytical approach to discussing the game. I think a lot of retrospectives fall into the trap of basically just summarising the game, which is boring if you’ve played it and basically just spoils it if you haven’t.
Why did they failed us so hard with bg3? Worse than GOT Season 8
Interesting view. Good job.
How much weight did you gain during the video making process?
Absolutely phenomenal work, man. You truly did this brilliant game proper justice.
Looking good. I repeat myself, that retrospective reviews should be something like this. Giving info about development history and all that.
Mostly these long videos are about explaining game's story
Jan is my favorite companion and by far the best thief in the game… can be used in either a good or evil party… you hate turnips or something? GREAT video though thanks for all the information!
Am still watching but, very nice so far! Personally, I love BG games a lot but I think their arc above all made me hunger for a better rules system for a crpg than AD&D. It was what excited me most about NWN, but well… NWN is a different story.
I wanted specifically to touch on difficulty, which I wonder if it sways one's perception. For me, I've never had the inclination to unrealistically use Resting in the BG games, so for me, BG2 was harder at a base level than BG1. A kind of self-imposed difficulty setting I suppose, I certainly don't blame people making use of the feature, but I remember deciding early on that it was just more fun to play it without doing such. I really liked that resting did refill everything, though. I didn't really mind that part, just the rather silly frequency you could do it.
However, I have no qualms about reloading, so it's curious I'd make that distinction. I think maybe it just had to do with creating a narrative for my character that made sense to me. Although I admit level drain was the main contributor to this reload allowance.
One thing i really enjoy from BG2 (and 1) is the pause with rounds running in the background, a kind of taking advantage of the computer calculations as an augment to pen and paper rounds. To this day I still find this to be a lot more enjoyable than eg Divinity Original Sin, which is fun as well but the turns become so 'gamey' that it's detracting from the moment in the game for me. I much prefer simultaneous rounds when there isn't a DM to rein in your shenanigans. 🙂
This was an extremely well-documented, structured and argued retrospective.
Not the first about this game I've seen, but by far my favorite so far.
Best retrospective on this game I've seen before. I've played every D&D computer game from Pools of Radiance onwards and absolutely loved BG2 from start to finish, but your constructive criticism of the game and explanation of the game is very fascinating
BG 3 is trash.
WHAT WINNIE THE POOH IS MINSC??????
As for mods, you should really check the new Athkatla Districts mods from the creator of Colors of Infinity, also Elistraee's Song. Really good ones and not out of place with the vanilla game.
Amazing. I'm speechless
"Western rpgs tend to be inferior copies of older titles"
See this is why i hate these pointlessly long retrospectives, all these youtubers just throw out these statements matter of fact like, gloss over it and move along with the usual snark. I get that your whole shtick is to be a contrarian (Doing a good job on that front btw) but seriously. Pathfinder, pillars of eternity, witcher, AOD are all great western rpgs that have done well for themselves.
Dismissing DOS because you don't like the direction, they're going in but discrediting the impact they themselves have had on the industry while in turn themselves OPENLY crediting the influence of BG as a marketing ploy is ludicrous.
BG is in the DNA of all those games i listed and more, from every story beat to companion, to the number of companions, story structure it's impossible to get away from it. Hell i remember that infamous flow chart called the "bioware formula" that was often discredited but had a grain of truth to it, hell even games like age of decadence and tyranny had similar story beats from old bioware.
Do i agree that major outlets of the 90's heaped undeserved praise on the original baldur's gate saga? Some of em indeed. But for the most part that praise was warranted and calling the games relics when they still have their fingers in other games of the genre is frankly a little dismissive.
Modern rpg's have indeed made concessions that stripped away a lot of the baldur's gate feeling mechanically and for good reason, mechanically it's antiquated and not very fun to play. But i personally find the soul of those games in pretty much every WRPG i've played in the last 7 years. The influence is there and plain to see.
I feel like the popularity of the BG saga and the fact that outlets, publishers, developers still credit it for having reinvigorated the rpg genre even today kinda speaks for itself. If BG's success was truly just happenstance, it would have faded into obscurity by now.
Developers still credit it, people still play it, people still talk about it. It's not a relic, it's a cultural touch stone that still stands the test of time.
R.I.P. David Warner, the voice of Jon Irenicus, probably one of the best villains voices ever.
We are rpg fans, 4 hours of dialogue is nothing 😜
The changes to difficulty are Beamdog’s doing though, no? I am pretty sure I always played on normal in my childhood, and failed spells, perma death, variable HP were always a thing.
If anyone should be interested in watching an absolutely phenomenal LP of bg2 (and bg1), I'd recommend mynameisnotlilly's playthrough
A pretty interesting video.
There’s a lot to think about. I appreciate your old-school perspective on the gameplay; clearly you had a lot on your mind considering how long you spent discussing the companion characters!
It’s great to be validated; I always imagined all the old BioWare writers as a bunch of weird nerdy boys. Those file photos you shared were delightfully 90s. 😉
They was an incredible video, very well researched and thoroughly informative. Well done!
The exploration cut could also be seen as a by product of the higher level of the party. In BG1 we are low level travelling is a constant danger where a small group of goblins or wolves could wreck you, so travel needed to be slow and careful. While in BG2 we are so strong that basic wilderness is no longer a danger. Travel then become much faster and having to deal with a pack of wolves or goblins would just be a nuisance.
RIP David Warner, a.k.a. Jon Irenicus.
This was an amazing video! I love how you managed to dig up so much info regarding the development of the game! As I game developer I love hearing about the trials and tribulations of what is one of my all time fave games! I'd love to see similar vids for a few of the other infinity engine games as well! Or perhaps one of the modern remakes (Pillars of Eternity?) as it would make for some interesting comparisons 🙂
This video is extremely well researched and scripted! Nicely done man!!!
Great analysis! regarding your point of map design and random exploration (or lack thereof in second half BG2 and ToB): For me it always made a lot of sense as a way to match the experience of playing with the story progression. In BG1, Gorions Ward is a noob, so stumbling through the wilderness and retelling random encounters with wolves and Ogrillons made you (as the player) feel that. In BG2, I always assume that the same is still happening, but since Gorion`s Ward has become a competent adventurer he doesn`t struggle with it anymore, so we just fast forward through it and get the outdoor map with just the dungeons. Like when you learn to drive, you very consciously experience doing every turn, but when you are a mature driver you only remember the challenging mountain road and not the commute to work. In later BG2 and especially ToB, we get to epic levels and killing rats in the basement or finding the lost journal in the sewers is nothing we would bother with – and if we wanted to, probably summon a djinn or whatever to take care of it in 5 secs. The more streamlined experience reflects the more streamlined character progression: We are pulled towards the Throne and battle for ascendance, whether we want to or not. So, for me, this increasing linearity actually feels very fitting to the story being told.
Ok I just watched the entire video
8:10 I think there's enough out there at this point to answer that question. From both a gameplay and story (or at least tone) perspective, why would you say it's unclear?
On the whole "Throne of Bhaal/BG3" What I heard is that it was a rights issue. BioWare lost/didn't have the license to make another BG game but they could make DLC/an expansion pack for one that already existed
Excellent commentary. I agree on what I believe is your general point, that despite the tactical depth and massive scope, BG II, due to some choices in direction, like the quasi-eastern setting, the attempted "edginess" of the writing, failed to capture some of the 'quintessential Forgotten Realms' spirit that the first game achieved.
Gee Whizz 4 hours? I'll give it a watch.
Baldur's Gate 2 is such an ambivalent title for me now. For one the combat and story and progression is great. But god the UI and the clunky inventory system just make playing through it a total chore.
I would've liked the exploration to be somewhere in-between 1 and 2. I did find BG1 to be very tedious, but I never complained about the areas being empty. A bit bland, sure; some were hiding good loot or a small quest or special interaction. I was curious to explore them all. My issue was my own goal of full completion in games, made hard by playing in 480pixels, small screen, overly complex topography at times and the characters moving significantly slower than BG2. All of these made mapping out the fog of war very slow and tedious, and I got overwhelmed when I reached the city in chapter 5 (returned later with bg1ee and finished the game). All the while BG2 could have used more outdoors but who knows, maybe was too much work not enough time.
I enjoy the same section of the Bhaalspawn Battle music. I like how in the interviews they tried to stick as close as possible to the music that came before them, which … is not something I can say about BG3. More so when Siege of Dragonspear, 16 years later, tried to sound as close as possible and for the most part I think it succeeded. Evidently so, the new game doesn't seem to care much. Then again not many players care to analyze music in games, or have it be a big deal of why they liked the game.