Are We Hard-Wired to Believe in God? Jamie Turner on Fitra

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Modernity brings with it the promise that ultimate truth can come through reason – a reason that often excludes believers as outside the realm of thinking. Liberalism places religion in a ‘non-reasoned’ bucket, which should be tolerated like all other irrational but ultimately comforting lifestyle choices. This is primarily why there is general animus against anyone who displays an over-exuberance towards belief systems. Such people are described as fundamentalists, unthinking and unable to make their own rational choices.

Our guest this week, Jamie Turner is no stranger to these arguments. He is currently pursuing his doctoral research at the University of Birmingham, looking at Ibn Taymiyyah and natural theology.

As always, you can comment your thoughts below.

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The Thinking Muslim Podcast Episode 110

00:00 Introduction
02:11 The idea of fitra
04:47 Fitra from a cognitive pov
05:19 Theistic disposition as natural
12:25 Nature of theistic faculty
13:30 The Mu’tazilite view
14:43 The Hadith about fitra
18:00 Role of environment
20:36 Our role as agents
22:05 The limits of fitra
24:00 Role of revelation
25:41 Convert vs. revert
28:42 Moral intuition
30:35 Journey to Islam
33:38 The role of reason
38:48 Obligation to use reason
45:33 Too much thinking?
47:52 Learning to reason well
49:27 Studying philosophy
51:50 Fitra and moral judgements
53:42 Dawah
55:37 Evidence for God
57:28 Signs in nature and humans
1:00:57 Responding to Stephen Fry

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27 thoughts on “Are We Hard-Wired to Believe in God? Jamie Turner on Fitra”

  2. This raises some very interestingly questions.
    We live in a scientific age, an age ofcmaterial reductionism where everything is matter and nothing else exists.
    Threxis much discussion surrounding near death experience where a person enters a placexof eternity and understanding, you may thing it is all rubbish butcmany experiencexinvolve people knowing things they simply couldnt know.
    Many scientists now question whether consciousnesses is simply part of the brain or external and the brain simply is a reciever.

    Perhaps we have this innate sensexof the divine and that something inside us telll usxwe dont belong to earth but want to return home to Allah.
    Allah the eternal refuge
    Sura 112 ayat 2

    Reply

  7. You have no idea how much I miss how you articulate your words and express your views Jamie with your intellectual tone and northern accent. Truly proud of you and your work brother and always enjoyed watching you speak. Keep up the good work. Much love from Malaysia

    Reply

  9. The concept of "fitrah" in Islam is closely related to the idea of agent detection, as it reflects the innate predisposition or natural disposition of human beings to recognize the oneness of Allah (God) and to seek a relationship with the Divine. Here's how the concept of fitrah relates to agent detection in Islam, along with examples and illustrations:

    1. **Fitrah in Islam**:
    – In Islamic theology, fitrah is the natural state or inherent disposition of all human beings. It is often described as the innate recognition of the oneness of Allah and the inclination to worship Him.

    2. **Agent Detection and Fitrah**:
    – Agent detection, as discussed earlier, is the cognitive ability to recognize intentional agents. In Islam, this ability is viewed as part of the fitrah.
    – Muslims believe that humans are naturally inclined to recognize Allah as the ultimate intentional agent, the Creator of the universe, and to seek a connection with Him.

    3. **Illustration – Monotheism (Tawhid)**:
    – One of the clearest illustrations of the fitrah in Islam is the belief in monotheism (Tawhid). Muslims are taught that the fitrah inclines them to recognize the oneness of Allah as the ultimate intentional agent behind the creation and maintenance of the universe.

    4. **Illustration – Prayer (Salat)**:
    – The act of prayer (Salat) is a reflection of the fitrah. Muslims have an innate inclination to communicate with Allah through prayer. This is an example of agent detection applied in the context of worship.

    5. **Illustration – Seeking Truth**:
    – The fitrah encourages humans to seek the truth and understand their purpose in life. This innate inclination is akin to agent detection in the sense that individuals are naturally driven to discover the ultimate intentional agent behind existence.

    6. **Examples of Fitrah in Practice**:
    – When a person, regardless of their upbringing, contemplates the beauty of nature or the complexities of the universe, they may feel a deep sense of awe and recognition of a higher power. This is seen as an expression of the fitrah.

    7. **Fitrah and Moral Values**:
    – The fitrah is believed to guide individuals toward recognizing moral values and distinguishing right from wrong. This innate sense of morality is often seen as a manifestation of agent detection regarding ethical principles.

    8. **Fitrah and Conversion to Islam**:
    – When non-Muslims convert to Islam, they often describe it as a return to their fitrah or a recognition of the truth they have always known deep down. This conversion process can be seen as aligning one's agent detection with Islamic monotheism.

    The fitrah in Islam, with its emphasis on recognizing the oneness of Allah and seeking a connection with the Divine, aligns with the concept of agent detection by highlighting the innate human inclination to perceive intentional agents in the world. It serves as a foundational concept in Islamic theology and spirituality, shaping how Muslims view their relationship with Allah and their understanding of the world around them.

    Reply

  11. The concept of ceaseless striving to unfold the fitrah (innate disposition) can be seen as a continuous journey of self-discovery, self-improvement, and spiritual growth in Islam. This journey is likened to the gradual unfolding of a flower, symbolizing the lifelong process of becoming a better human being. Let's delve deeper into this idea with explanations and examples:

    1. **Understanding Fitrah**:
    – In Islam, fitrah represents the natural disposition of humans to recognize the existence of God and the innate inclination to seek a connection with the Divine.

    2. **Ceaseless Striving**:
    – The idea of ceaseless striving implies that individuals should continually work on aligning themselves with their fitrah and seeking a closer relationship with Allah.
    – It's a recognition that the journey of self-improvement is ongoing and never truly ends during one's lifetime.

    3. **Illustration – The Flower Metaphor**:
    – Comparing the journey to unfolding a flower illustrates the gradual, step-by-step progress in self-realization and spiritual development.
    – Just as a flower opens its petals over time, individuals unfold their potential and understanding through their life experiences.

    4. **Examples of Ceaseless Striving**:
    – **Prayer and Worship**: Muslims engage in regular acts of worship, such as daily prayers (Salat), to strengthen their connection with Allah. This continuous practice is part of the ceaseless striving to maintain that connection.

    – **Learning and Knowledge**: Seeking knowledge is a fundamental aspect of the journey. It involves a lifelong commitment to understanding both the religious teachings and the world around us. Each piece of knowledge acquired is like a new petal opening.

    – **Acts of Kindness and Charity**: Engaging in acts of charity (Sadaqah) and showing kindness to others is a way to nurture the fitrah. It's an ongoing effort to manifest the innate goodness within.

    – **Self-Reflection and Repentance**: Regular self-reflection and seeking forgiveness (Tawbah) is part of the journey. Recognizing one's shortcomings and striving for self-improvement is akin to the gradual blossoming of a flower.

    5. **Challenges on the Journey**:
    – Just as a flower may face adverse conditions like storms or drought, individuals on their journey may encounter trials and difficulties. These challenges can be seen as opportunities for growth and strengthening the fitrah.

    6. **The Never-Ending Journey**:
    – The concept of ceaseless striving underscores that the journey toward self-realization and spiritual growth is a lifelong commitment. It continues until one's last breath.

    7. **Final Destination**: In Islam, the ultimate destination of this journey is believed to be closeness to Allah in the Hereafter, where the fitrah is fully realized and rewarded.

    In summary, the concept of ceaseless striving to unfold the fitrah is a profound metaphor for the lifelong journey of spiritual growth and self-improvement in Islam. It emphasizes that this journey is ongoing, marked by continuous efforts to strengthen one's connection with Allah, acquire knowledge, perform acts of kindness, and reflect on one's actions. Just as a flower unfolds its petals over time, individuals gradually uncover their potential and deepen their understanding of their innate disposition.

    Reply

  13. interestingly on the topic of aliens it is an actual position in academia that life on earth was generated by an advanced species of aliens. they do this to circumvent the issues posed when God is invoked because God is metaphysical so falls foul of the naturalistic presuppositions of science.

    Reply

  18. 100%
    Look at people in any kind of emergency need and/or when they are lost.
    Who do they turn to when they think they are lost and theres no people around to help them?
    The problem with these non muslims can be, when their problem is gone, and they got the help they needed.
    Allah is gone, for them.

    Reply

  22. I've always been a fan of Jamie Turner since I discovered him from his discussion with Dr Shoaib Malik. Since having interest in Ibn Taymiyyah, I've been following his works so thank you for this discussion about fitra that I think it's utilisation in dawah is understated in this age of confusion.

    Reply

  24. religion of any type is basically brainwashing and my opinion its all a scam . throughout history people were forced to believe or be punished . it seem islam takes their direction on a book that was written thousands of years ago and its direction doesnt involve progress but the bible written about the same time it gives direction but the message gives progress .

    Reply

  26. Your response to Stephen Fry is : "we define God as infinitly good, therefore we conclude that even the bad things happening are goods" 🤣
    There is a 2 other solutions to the cancerous kids problem : gods are not good or gods don't exists. They have the advantages of being rational and not obvious fallacies.

    Reply

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