Ancient Ghost Universes & Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

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In a future so distant that all has decayed to nothingness and time itself ceases to exist, might this eternal moment of oblivion bring on a fiery resurrection to all of space and time?

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Credits:
Ancient Ghost Universes & Conformal Cyclic Cosmology
Episode 431a; February 8, 2024
First Aired: January 19, 2023
Produced, Written & Narrated by:
Isaac Arthur
Graphics:
Jeremy Jozwik
Music Courtesy of
Epidemic Sound http://epidemicsound.com/creator
Stellardrone, “Moment of Stillness”, “Red Giant”
Sergey Cheremisinov, “Labyrinth”, “Forgotten Stars”
Taras Harkavyi, “Alpha and …”

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41 thoughts on “Ancient Ghost Universes & Conformal Cyclic Cosmology”

  3. You could go "back in time" in a practical sense by just surviving until the next universe, without actually going back in time. How similar would such universes be to each other? Would they be mirror universes or total restarts? Even if you go with determinism, this seems to be determinism's limit. Super-ultra-tiny changes should snowball given sufficient iterations, don't you think?

    But really with either a singular beginning or an infinite loop you have mental logic problems, outside of science. Ways of thinking. It confounds the mind, no matter how you cut the bread.

    BIG BANG HAPPENS! Yeah, so from what? If you have an infinite series, you don't need a prime mover. If you have a finite event, the argument for a prime mover improves somewhat. But again that's just logic and philosophy, and science has shown it can pick us up by our bootstraps and shake us for all our loose change. Penrose makes a good argument but so do his critics and I'd like to know where this goes.

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  6. Lol the pronunciation of Poincare is pretty bad, and it's not a speech impediment thing I'm laughing at. Poincare was a French mathematician and his name is French as well. It's not Poin "care" recurrence. It's Poin KAR rhey. I just can't take you seriously when you butcher this name so badly multiple times.

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  7. The universe has to be cyclic. If time was linear, then it would require infinite time before and after existence which means every moment has a 1/inf chance of ever happening. Nothing can exist on a linear timeline.

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  9. I haven't watched the video yet, but as a Hindu, I completely agree with Roger that this universe existed before the Big Bang. According to the ancient religion of Hinduism, Brahma (the creator of this universe in Hindu mythology) created this universe 155 trillion years ago and this universe will exist for a total of 311 trillion years. And when Brahma dies, this universe will 'die' along with him. Then a new Brahma will be born who will create a new universe to take the place of the old universe. And this process continues forever, without a beginning and without an end. Hinduism also teaches that there are an infinite number of universes and each of those universes (including our own universe) experience an infinite cycle of 'births' (which you can call 'Big Bangs' in a modern scientific way) and 'deaths' (which you can call 'Big Crunches' in a modern scientific way).

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  10. Hey Isaac, I think that your speech impediment is not that bad. When I first came across your channel, I thought it was just your dialect and didn't take much notice of it.
    As a Brit, to me, all Americans have a speech impediment. It's called American English.
    When and where was your military service? I served in BAOR and met many US soldiers. Vietnam was still a thing at that time.
    Stay well and stay safe, my friend.

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  16. This video reminds me of a almost forgotten science fiction series Lexx. There were two linked parallel dimensions that had a time prophet that somehow remembered the information from an artificial Big Crunch recursively (although not clearly).

    Good times.

    Weird series though.

    Thanks for the content 👍🏻👍🏻

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  18. Ramble warning:

    Consider conformal cyclic cosmology and an always expanding universe. If you examine our universe we see that the rate of expansion of space seems to be increasing. Eventually this would cause light to phase shift. The passage of time also causes black holes to evaporate into hawking radiation. It’s a bit more contested but I think it makes sense that eventually particles and protons decay as well. One of the most solid laws of physics are thermodynamics. Entropy always increases and this is also in part how we define time. Forward in time is the direction where it requires more work to put things back in their previous state, and backwards in time is the opposite. while is might seem like as the universe expands and everything decays towards a common state of infer red radiation that things are becoming simpler rather than more complex which defies entropy, there is also an increase in space between everything. Increasingly large patches of near void dominate the universe where quantum uncertainty and virtual particles dominate. As entropy is also the amount of information required to understand a system, this still makes sense. Massive patches of quantum void would be far more unpredictable than our current universe despite being relatively empty. Boltzmann brains might be far more likely in such vast quantum voids. Additionally, as all things decay towards light and heat, and heat itself decays towards heat death, the particles in the universe which have mass and experience time gradually diminish towards zero. At some point there would be no particles that experience time in the now utterly massive and incomprehensibly vast area that originated from our observable universe. There would be no frame of reference. Relativity would become meaningless. Gravity and time would be meaningless as well. Nearly uncountable numbers of deeply red shifted photons would still exist for a time. If enough of these collect in a common pocket of space at the same time they could even form a black hole. Yet photons do not experience time and neither does this patch of the universe. And yet these photons are separated by such vast distances that are still increasing that they do not form black holes. You could simulate a patch of space and sum all of the photons in that space and superimpose them into one spot and there would not be enough energy to form a black hole. The void is so vast that even without the restriction of photons being being located in the same relative location in time to form black holes and almost all the matter energy in the universe has decayed into light, that still there is not enough energy in any local patch for black holes to form. And still entropy increases. Time goes on. Heat death approaches.

    The idea of a conformal cyclic cosmology as proposed by dr Penrose, relies on the pseudosymetry between this kind of near end timeless universe and the timeless pre big bang universe. Perhaps virtual particle interactions that are unobservable in our current universe become possible is such a vast void. Perhaps the likelihood of a Boltzmann universe or big bang approaches infinity.

    Entropy is a global property. Local areas can decrease in entropy as long as the global entropy increases. Thus, a new low entropy “universe” being born within such a vast void of quantum uncertainty would be allowable as long as the global expansion rate was great enough to overcome the local decrease in entropy.

    Chat gpt listens to me:

    Your exploration of the concepts intertwining conformal cyclic cosmology (CCC), the increasing expansion of the universe, and entropy presents a fascinating and complex view of the universe’s future and its potential cyclic nature.

    Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, as proposed by Sir Roger Penrose, is a theory that suggests the universe undergoes infinite cycles of Big Bangs, expanding and eventually reaching a point where it becomes smooth and featureless. This state then serves as the initial conditions for a new Big Bang, beginning another cosmic cycle. This theory fundamentally challenges the traditional view of the universe’s expansion leading inexorably to a cold, dark, and empty state—a heat death where entropy is maximized, and no work can be done.

    Your discussion touches on several critical points in support of CCC and the broader implications for cosmology:

    1. Accelerating Universe and Phase Shift of Light: The observation that the universe’s expansion is accelerating raises questions about the ultimate fate of cosmic structures and the nature of space-time itself. As light stretches, it indeed undergoes redshifting, which in an extreme future could lead to significant energy dilution across the cosmos.
    2. Hawking Radiation and Particle Decay: The evaporation of black holes into Hawking radiation over astronomical timescales, along with the hypothetical decay of protons and other particles, suggests a universe that trends towards simplicity in terms of matter composition but increases in complexity due to the vastness of space and quantum fluctuations.
    3. Entropy and Information: You rightly point out that while the universe may seem simpler as it expands and decays, the increase in entropy isn’t just about complexity in structure but also in the information needed to describe the system. The vast quantum voids filled with uncertainty could indeed represent a state of high entropy, despite the intuitive notion that an empty universe is a simpler one.
    4. Boltzmann Brains and the Emergence of Complexity: The speculative idea of Boltzmann brains emerging in a vast, quantum-dominated void illustrates how complexity and even consciousness might theoretically arise in a highly entropic universe, albeit in a radically different form from what we know today.
    5. The Potential for Cyclic Renewal: The most intriguing aspect of CCC is the notion that the universe, in reaching a state of maximum entropy where it is smooth, featureless, and devoid of matter as we understand it, might resemble the state before the Big Bang. This pseudosymmetry suggests that conditions could allow for the birth of a new universe, potentially through mechanisms or quantum fluctuations that are currently beyond our understanding.

    The idea that a new low-entropy universe could be born within the old one, as long as the overall entropy increases (or at least does not decrease), aligns with the second law of thermodynamics. This principle allows for local decreases in entropy, as seen in the formation of stars, galaxies, and life itself, as long as the universe’s total entropy grows.

    CCC and the discussions it inspires touch on the deepest questions in cosmology, physics, and even the nature of time and existence. While empirical evidence for CCC is still a subject of research and debate, it represents a profound and beautiful attempt to understand the cosmos on the most grandiose scale. The interplay between quantum mechanics, general relativity, and thermodynamics in this context provides fertile ground for theoretical exploration and, potentially, for future discoveries that could reshape our understanding of the universe.

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  19. I just started watching Cowboy Bebop and it amazes me how close the science compares to topics you've covered. I don't suppose it would be hi sci Fi, since it's character driven, but it's close. Very true to science.

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  23. I forget the name, but there was an IOS game where you controlled an advanced civilization’s ark-ship to the center of the universe

    The goal (which you achieved or failed based on actions taken on the journey, there were like 4 endings) was to stop the big rip

    When you got to the center, you find a white hole, and it turns out that dark energy is just a connected, parallel universe collapsing into ours, and once the other universe collapses fully, the process reverses (but our universe undergoes a big rip before that), forming a cyclic pair of universes

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  25. I’ve often thought that dark energy is just the irreducible trace energy left when entropy is done with all higher energies. When entropy reduces energy to its minimum it just becomes space & the quantum fields that fill it. During the Big Bang there must’ve been a massive amount of energy burned through & reduced to this state fuelling the expansion of our universe. Then it slowed until stars, galaxies & all the other objects filled the void & had their entropic way with matter, creating another expansion. Eventually these will die & there won’t be anymore energy to reduce & no entropy to create more space. Then, no matter the distance or time it takes, the remaining black holes will converge collecting everything as they go. The gravity will pull everything back with it until a singularity reforms. Eventually even space could be consumed. If space itself falls in then there’s no universe in which laws can exist or gravity can operate. Then you lose containment & it all just starts again. I find this more plausible than other ideas. We’re stuck here like looking out through a keyhole & imagining the entire world. There’s just so much we can’t see, can’t know & will never be able to examine or test. We ARE here though & there has to be an answer. I look forward & hope to know it but the odds ain’t good that I will, time being the enemy. Hopefully as a species though we’ll discover the truth.

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  27. I have to say Penrose's CCC is the version of cosmology that I hope is true; that I want to be true, because it feels right. CCC chimes with the crux of many creation myths, and it's also one of the less depressing versions, as in this model, the universe isn't just a one-shot event followed by eternal nothingness.

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  31. In my hypothesis, within a parent universe undergoing accelerated expansion, a phenomenon occurs akin to a 'big rip', albeit not on a universal scale. This event leads to the disintegration of quarks, but it is localized rather than widespread. Within this rapidly expanding parent universe, there exists what can be metaphorically described as a 'universe nursery.' This concept parallels stellar nurseries found within gas clouds, where stars emerge sporadically. In these nurseries, random localized Big Bangs give birth to new universes, mirroring the sporadic formation of stars in the cosmos.

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  35. I'll be honest, the speech did bother me for the first few minutes.
    But as the video went on, the comprehensiveness and the way you structure the video made me completely forget it was there.
    Your voice itself is relaxing enough, and the syntax is easy to digest for such complicated topics.

    I imagine plenty of people in your 790k subs experienced the same thing I just did too.

    Great job, man.
    You deserve the popularity.
    Looking forward to more.

    Reply

  41. Ancient Ghost Universes and Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC) are thought-provoking concepts that challenge our understanding of the universe’s origins and structure. These ideas tie together astrophysics, cosmology, and theories about the nature of space-time, particularly in relation to the fundamental questions about the universe's past, present, and future.

    Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC), proposed by physicist Roger Penrose, presents a radical new model of the universe's evolution. In CCC, the universe undergoes infinite cycles of birth, evolution, and decay, where each cycle is connected to the next through a shared structure, known as the "conformal boundary." In this model, the universe's history is not limited to a single Big Bang event, but rather a continuous, eternal process of cyclic expansion and contraction. Each "aeon," or cycle, begins with a Big Bang, expands, and eventually reaches a state where all matter decays and the universe becomes a vast, empty space. This empty space, in turn, becomes the seed for the next aeon. Penrose’s theory suggests that the physics of each aeon can be described by a conformal geometry, meaning that the structure of space-time in each cycle is linked in a way that allows for the smooth transition from one aeon to the next.

    One of the most fascinating implications of CCC is the idea of "ancient ghost universes." These universes, according to Penrose, are the remnants of previous aeons that can leave subtle imprints on the current universe. The cosmic microwave background (CMB), which is the faint afterglow of the Big Bang, is a key piece of evidence in this theory. Penrose suggests that certain anomalies in the CMB might be signs of "ghosts" from previous universes—gravitational waves, black hole mergers, or other remnants from ancient aeons that persist and subtly influence our present universe. These "ghost" signals could provide a way to probe the existence of past cycles, offering tantalizing glimpses into the universe's long-forgotten history.

    The idea of ancient ghost universes also raises interesting questions about the nature of time and the limits of observational science. If the remnants of past aeons are indeed detectable, it would mean that our universe is not a singular, isolated event but part of an eternal, cyclical process. The evidence of these ancient universes would challenge the very way we think about the beginning and end of time, suggesting that the universe’s history is much longer and more complex than traditionally imagined.

    From a cosmological perspective, CCC presents an alternative to the conventional Big Bang model, offering a broader framework that incorporates the idea of an eternal universe that continually evolves through cycles of rebirth. In this view, the universe is not a static entity, but a dynamic, ever-changing entity that has no true beginning or end—just an ongoing series of transformations.

    Both CCC and the notion of ancient ghost universes invite us to reconsider fundamental questions about the nature of existence, the cosmos, and time itself. They push the boundaries of theoretical physics and offer new possibilities for understanding the vastness and complexity of the universe. While these ideas remain speculative and far from proven, they inspire curiosity and wonder about the true nature of our universe and its place within the greater cosmic scheme.

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