This week on Extra Punctuation, Yahtzee dives into the adventure game genre following the announcement of Return to Monkey Island.
Join YouTube Memberships and support our content for Early Access to new videos, exclusive Discord perks & more for just $2 per month ►► https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqg5FCR7NrpvlBWMXdt-5Vg/join
Join our growing Discord community: https://discord.gg/A6T2gKrDwB
Subscribe to Escapist Magazine! ►► http://bit.ly/Sub2Escapist
Want to see the next episode a week early? Check out http://www.escapistmagazine.com for the latest episodes of your favorite shows.
—
—
The Escapist Merch Store ►►https://teespring.com/stores/the-escapist-store
Join us on Twitch ►► https://www.twitch.tv/the_escapist_official
Like us on Facebook ►► http://www.facebook.com/EscapistMag
Follow us on Twitter ►► https://twitter.com/EscapistMag
#ExtraPunctuation
source
The games are usually good when they have a good story, music, either funny like monkey island or serious like broken sword/secret files and most importantly puzzles that are not too easy! (when it feels like doing chores, it’s bad) boring unskippable cutscenes is also painful😅
I think point and click adventures have been "back", as in back to form, since Wadjet Eye released their first Blackwell game. There isn't a bad point and click adventure in their whole catalogue. Sure, the puzzles are all inventory puzzles. Find the thing, use it on the other thing, learn what new thing you need to use a thing on, but at the most basic level, that's all any game is. Call of Duty is just a point and click adventure where every inventory item is a bullet and every puzzle needs a number of bullets put into it. The key to making a point and click adventure good is evoking a desire in the player to know more. If the player is caught up in the story, they will want to progress, and the puzzles should not be obstacles to learning more, but an organic part of learning more.
Ultimately, a linear interactive narrative is just as on-rails for the player as reading a book. I enjoy point and click adventures that feed me information about the world as I do stuff in that world more than I enjoy action games that take breaks from the gameplay to dump exposition on me (lookin' at you, Metal Gear! MGS4 was just a heinously complicated DVD menu!) Some point and click adventures can introduce non-linear elements, but that's a lot of writing that needs to be done that, given the attitude to point and click adventures, won't have a payoff (as in a literal financial payoff). Nobody today is going to drop $60 on an adventure game, even if it has four times the gameplay of Skyrim. You can't have an organic non-linear adventure where an early decision made can result in a completely different story to another player, because it's just too time intensive to develop for what gamers will actually pay. The best we can get right now is in the vein of Wadjet Eye's Technobabylon, where many puzzles have open-ended solutions, but while the obstacles can be overcome a variety of ways, the path is always the same, and it always leads to the same destination.
But I like bashing my head against the wall that is moon logic!
You were right though, despite my love of the genre a lot of it is guessing which thingamajig combines with which whatchamacallit.
I’d like to throw my hat in the ring a bit late for Ghost Trick. I think it’s an amazing point and click style game(in a sense) whose puzzles tie into an overarching story.
1) The Last Express
2) Gabriel Knight 2
3) Leisure Suit Larry 7
Oh god Yahtzee prototyped the EXACT SAME SYSTEM I tried to make for a crafting system that I then realised would be translatable to a point and click game to make the stupid 500 keys and 5 locks problem less obnoxious.
Turns out Cataclysm: DDA uses a system similar for anyone looking for how that works, by the way. Ends up being rather intuitive if you just go back to thinking like a normal human instead of survival game logic where you need the Hammer of Nail Hammering and can't use it for situations in which the Hammer of Chisel Propulsion is needed, and your Steel Mace of Skull Feng-Shui may as well be a Renfaire dildo with how useful it is for blunt-force related situations not involving combat
I've never heard of Monkey Island haha.
And yet not one mention of Myst.
That's saddening.
One thing that changed which I don't think I've ever seen anyone discuss is that the Internet provided easy answers to tough puzzles.
When I was a kid, Infocom was the big thing in Adventure games and there was a huge difference between their regular releases and their classic releases… namely, you had instant access to puzzle solutions if you had a classic release. You could always buy a hint book to get you through a game, but that was usually something you did after hitting a wall for a long time.
And playing a new release (without built hints) was a more engaging experience as you slowly figured things out… until you got completely stuck and shelled out for the hint book.
When I got back into Adventure games years later, the internet was a thing… and I never had a really engaging experience because I'd invariably look up the answer after banging my head against a wall a few times… instead of spending days or weeks trying to puzzle it out.
The internet completely changed how I interacted with the games for the worse.
Look up the newest Syberia game and tell me adventure games aren’t good anymore
"Do you think one puzzle can be stretched out to get a whole game out of it?" Like Portal as well. Do one thing really well and the rest falls in.
I guess adventure games didn't die so much as they and action games collectively hybridized into the action adventure (oh hey look at that) and proved massively more successful together than either of them did apart. Of course pure action and pure adventure games can still do well, as can other animals who've existed past their time, but they can only do so by finding their own special niche in the ecosystem rather than comprising it.
I don't think the Nancy drew games count as adventure but they were my favorite point and click computer games growing up. Going back to them it is very clear that they are old and outdated but are still quite fun. The detective mysteries and puzzles are still fun to figure out.
5:08 you basically just described the system that Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead has right now with tools having stats nearly exactly like that and you need lets say 2 screwing and 1 prying to craft a weapon.
Saying that adventure games became obsolete with the release of story rich video games is like saying that books became obsolete after the invention of the talkies. And I'd argue that adventure games hadn't really become that unpopular, there are more excellent point and click adventure games being released now than ever, it's just that it's a much smaller part of the gaming industry now that it's such a big business, and most consumers would probably much rather play a video game equivalent of a big budget Marvel movie (nope that there's anything wrong with that).
Great games, how long does it take to try them all? Oh, it's a pity there are not 60 hours in a day (. In addition to any reviews, I'm still looking for games on Steam, and purely by chance I stumbled upon Primal Menace, I was very interested, but there is not much information about this game, has anyone heard anything about it?
They are just marketed as RPG now. Look at Hogwarts legacy.
God damn being in a thermodynamics class taught by an ancient German physicist has taught me to truly understand what Yahtzee meant by "reinvent from first principles". Youch.
Cleverness is what kept the genre interesting and fun.
Point and Clicks can be fun still, and they can be jank, but thats true with any game in 2023.
Like I don't really think any genre of game can be as funny when done right as monkey island 2 was when you figure out how to get a shovel.
RIP, Kyrandia.
That combined item values system he described reminds me way to much of how Cataclysm DDA/BN gives its tool items qualities.
When will Yahtzee mention Dropsy
Your mum is a bit of a key hunt
0:38 Ironically, Yahtzee didn't like Monkey Island 3, 4 or 5 that much (originally)
Burnhouse lane is what I might class as a good modern adventure game. The puzzles are very simple and easy, but it's the story and characters that get you invested.
Says point and click games are all bad. Doesn't even mention Disco Elysium
Would the Talos Principle be a spiritual successor to adventure games? It is mostly comprised of wondering around solving puzzles with a lot of text based story, but it was a great game. 🙂
This video is so dumb considering return to monkey island included all previous games in the story
So tired of the whining gaming community that just loves to breathe hot air 24/7😵💫
Leave it to yecht to accidentally make a system to TOAK before it was actually created
PLAY LAIR OF THE CLOCKWORK GOD
I still love Point and Click games!
Broken Sword.
I'm actually working on a point-and-click adventure game myself inspired by games like Day of the Tentacle (and even having a similar art style) yet after watching this video, I realise that I need to try and up my game with new types of puzzles that don't just seem like combinations all throughout the game. Thanks for making this video.
They're great for the phone
I love point and click adventure games and the series of puzzles. I think once higher end graphics came about they sunk all the money into art and gave up on memorable music, story and puzzle elements
Are the thumbnails okay? They seem…different.