1:19: i also think instituting the WoW as a temple requirement was based on the article of faith that we obey the laws of the land. With prohibition, the church leaders made it set in stone that faithful members would obey it as if it were a commandment. How could they be honest members if they broke the law & enjoyed Speakeasies or trafficked booze?
At 1:30:00, this is almost certainly an apocryphal story, it says she now has 5 generations of posterity, so this would have been between 100-150 years, before drinking coffee would have kept her out of the temple
This shows that the Mormon god is unaware of the real world. Eastern cultures and now, we know that tea is healthy if not artificially processed. Also, not knowing about caffeine in chocolate was always an oddity for me. The LDS owns Coca-Cola? Or a lot of stocks. No Mike, I am a never-Mormon and I also find beer ugh! 😂 I do not drink and smoked once and that's all it took to stay away. When I was a Christian I always ignored believers' insistence that one should not drink alcohol. It made no sense and was not biblical founded.
I am in the church and believing. But I have to say I agree with most of this presentation on the WOW. It makes little sense to me why your entrance to the temple is dependent upon the absence of alcohol, tea and coffee. Especially because D&C 89 was not a strict commandment and the early leaders didn't follow it strictly. Also I often have thought about hot drinks, but that doesn't include hot chocolate or soup. Although I believe there was a quote from George Q Cannon apostle who interpreted the revelation that hot drinks included soup and hot chocolate. Good point about cold coffee, not a hot drink so is that okay? I think the church just sees it as a law of obedience and faith primarily and secondary health, but I've also thought how you could eat lots of chocolate, coke, meat and energy drinks but be allowed a recommend but a cup of tea or coffee occasionally isn't allowed 🤔 I would push back though that I've never been taught people who don't follow the wow are bad, but maybe it's different in the UK. But certainly we had lessons about avoiding ganging around people who drink or smoke who may tempt us. But I've never thought they are bad, but I guess the church would view it as sinful behaviour but not bad people. Again most of this I've wondered about and Jesus drinking wine and Joseph too. Jesus seemed less concerned about what you eat or drink.
Word of Wisdom… I dunno where the modesty and garments rules are, but… Given John's tale of attending a stake dance with Renee Zellweger… I'd love to see an episode of Mormon Stories explaining how bare shoulders are OK for BYU cheerleaders and DWTS Lindsey Stirling. How do garments fit in with performances? No need to worry about modesty as long as it's a performance?
I heard that "allegedly", marijuana use was a big reason that John Huntsmans falling out with the church. He wanted to be able to investigate it's use in cancer study.
It should be noted that Brigham Young drank whiskey in the Lion House and before his death, increased his intake as some bizarre justification as medicine.
John, these episodes with Mike from LDS Discussions are FANTASTIC! He’s the perfect person to tackle these essays! Just wanted to express a little appreciation and support. Keep up the great work! 👏🏻
Not a commandment but it’s required to get a temple recommend. It’s all about control I feel like! And money! And not to mention people don’t follow the WoW completely! Look at how much meat people eat! And how fat and unhealthy members are! Food is the center of all their activities!
I dropped out of BYU and went back to UVU because the religion classes were going to set me back a year. I told my mom the reason I was dropping out of BYU was because they didn't serve Mountain Dew… she freaked out on me and I just laughed. To this day (10 years later) she still thinks I dropped out because of Mountain Dew. 😁
As a former RLDS….we of course did not hear the story of Emma having to clean up from the tobacco etc. The fact that she said it would be nice to have a revelation about that tells me that she likely knew how “ getting revelations” really worked ( especially given the revelation then came immediately). This is quite impactful having been RLDS….since that would mean she went on to promote her son as leader and possibly teach him the way things actually worked….fully knowing the falseness of the claims…which of course those of us in the reorganization followed. ( as a note my husband and some others in the reorganized church did refrain from eating meat in the warm months as well as no coffee, alcohol etc to keep with the word of wisdom….that seemed clear in the wording, although this was a personal choice…not a church wide rule)
And how about a revelation that Emma (and the other women) shouldn't have to clean up after the men? Maybe the men could clean up their own messes?? That's the kind of revelation that a lot of people would have appreciated…
The silver lining is that the word of wisdom has prevented probably millions from joining the Mormon cult. Definitely one of the biggest stumbling blocks on my mission.
"Joseph was an eclectic, syncretic innovator, not a systematic theologian. Many of his religious inspirations were largely gleaned from his nineteenth-century environment, ruminated over, confirmed by what he said was God's spirit, then refined and enhanced through on incremental process of trial-and-error development that in many ways is still on-going among his successors. Believers refer to this process as continuous revelation; non-believers as the natural expression of human intellect and reason." (Richard Van Wagoner, "Natural Born Seer", 2016, p. viii)
The affects of alcoholism has been commonly understood forever. The early settlers were forbidden from selling alcohol to Native Americans going back to the 1600s
Is any issue straightforward in Mormonism??
1:19: i also think instituting the WoW as a temple requirement was based on the article of faith that we obey the laws of the land.
With prohibition, the church leaders made it set in stone that faithful members would obey it as if it were a commandment. How could they be honest members if they broke the law & enjoyed Speakeasies or trafficked booze?
At 1:30:00, this is almost certainly an apocryphal story, it says she now has 5 generations of posterity, so this would have been between 100-150 years, before drinking coffee would have kept her out of the temple
💙I hungered and was fed.
In Chile, Argentina, and Uruguay Yerba Mate is permitted by some bishops and forbidden by the more orthodox bishops or Mission leaders.
Not my cup of Mate🧉, but trying to explain the double think as a missionary was frustrating.
This shows that the Mormon god is unaware of the real world. Eastern cultures and now, we know that tea is healthy if not artificially processed. Also, not knowing about caffeine in chocolate was always an oddity for me. The LDS owns Coca-Cola? Or a lot of stocks. No Mike, I am a never-Mormon and I also find beer ugh! 😂 I do not drink and smoked once and that's all it took to stay away. When I was a Christian I always ignored believers' insistence that one should not drink alcohol. It made no sense and was not biblical founded.
I am in the church and believing. But I have to say I agree with most of this presentation on the WOW. It makes little sense to me why your entrance to the temple is dependent upon the absence of alcohol, tea and coffee. Especially because D&C 89 was not a strict commandment and the early leaders didn't follow it strictly. Also I often have thought about hot drinks, but that doesn't include hot chocolate or soup. Although I believe there was a quote from George Q Cannon apostle who interpreted the revelation that hot drinks included soup and hot chocolate. Good point about cold coffee, not a hot drink so is that okay? I think the church just sees it as a law of obedience and faith primarily and secondary health, but I've also thought how you could eat lots of chocolate, coke, meat and energy drinks but be allowed a recommend but a cup of tea or coffee occasionally isn't allowed 🤔 I would push back though that I've never been taught people who don't follow the wow are bad, but maybe it's different in the UK. But certainly we had lessons about avoiding ganging around people who drink or smoke who may tempt us. But I've never thought they are bad, but I guess the church would view it as sinful behaviour but not bad people. Again most of this I've wondered about and Jesus drinking wine and Joseph too. Jesus seemed less concerned about what you eat or drink.
SUGGESTION: “Top 5 Smoking Gun Truth Claims of the LDS Church”
Highlight and consolidate into one episode. This would be a mega hit of a video.
1:31:00 it's the churchs fault her kids couldn't go to the temple. Emotionally manipulative is right.
*likely the kids are better off anyway
Trying to think logically about the word of wisdom leads to an endless vortex of mental gymnastics
Saw a list of items to bring on the trail. The list was compiled by B. Y. I think. Coffee was on the list.
Word of Wisdom…
I dunno where the modesty and garments rules are, but…
Given John's tale of attending a stake dance with Renee Zellweger…
I'd love to see an episode of Mormon Stories explaining how bare shoulders are OK for BYU cheerleaders and DWTS Lindsey Stirling.
How do garments fit in with performances? No need to worry about modesty as long as it's a performance?
I heard that "allegedly", marijuana use was a big reason that John Huntsmans falling out with the church. He wanted to be able to investigate it's use in cancer study.
https://youtu.be/jahF-x6_64I
It should be noted that Brigham Young drank whiskey in the Lion House and before his death, increased his intake as some bizarre justification as medicine.
John, these episodes with Mike from LDS Discussions are FANTASTIC! He’s the perfect person to tackle these essays! Just wanted to express a little appreciation and support. Keep up the great work! 👏🏻
Ask any faithful member how they're gonna like being vegetarian in the millenium… the puzzled face is awesome 🤣
21:30 Mike has got a talent for creating scriptures on the fly… 😝
Not a commandment but it’s required to get a temple recommend. It’s all about control I feel like! And money! And not to mention people don’t follow the WoW completely! Look at how much meat people eat! And how fat and unhealthy members are! Food is the center of all their activities!
I dropped out of BYU and went back to UVU because the religion classes were going to set me back a year. I told my mom the reason I was dropping out of BYU was because they didn't serve Mountain Dew… she freaked out on me and I just laughed. To this day (10 years later) she still thinks I dropped out because of Mountain Dew. 😁
As a former RLDS….we of course did not hear the story of Emma having to clean up from the tobacco etc. The fact that she said it would be nice to have a revelation about that tells me that she likely knew how “ getting revelations” really worked ( especially given the revelation then came immediately). This is quite impactful having been RLDS….since that would mean she went on to promote her son as leader and possibly teach him the way things actually worked….fully knowing the falseness of the claims…which of course those of us in the reorganization followed. ( as a note my husband and some others in the reorganized church did refrain from eating meat in the warm months as well as no coffee, alcohol etc to keep with the word of wisdom….that seemed clear in the wording, although this was a personal choice…not a church wide rule)
And how about a revelation that Emma (and the other women) shouldn't have to clean up after the men? Maybe the men could clean up their own messes?? That's the kind of revelation that a lot of people would have appreciated…
Tobacco was an old remedy some farmers used for cattle/horses that had worms.
The silver lining is that the word of wisdom has prevented probably millions from joining the Mormon cult. Definitely one of the biggest stumbling blocks on my mission.
I have a sticker on my computer that says Worship the Dark Lord, Coffee. 😄
Excellence message gentlemen
I’ve used tobacco on a bruise I had and my bruise was healed up completely in about 3 days.
"Joseph was an eclectic, syncretic innovator, not a systematic theologian. Many of his religious inspirations were largely gleaned from his nineteenth-century environment, ruminated over, confirmed by what he said was God's spirit, then refined and enhanced through on incremental process of trial-and-error development that in many ways is still on-going among his successors. Believers refer to this process as continuous revelation; non-believers as the natural expression of human intellect and reason."
(Richard Van Wagoner, "Natural Born Seer", 2016, p. viii)
The affects of alcoholism has been commonly understood forever. The early settlers were forbidden from selling alcohol to Native Americans going back to the 1600s
They can only really control the masses with illogical dogma. That’s what the WoW is. Same with garments.
One of my first unanswered questions was about the WOW. I could not understand why hot chocolate is allowed and over eating.
Joseph Smith and Jehovahs Witness has many parallels. Two people in the 1800’s made up a religions.
I left the church 29 years ago. Out of my own choice, I do not drink alcohol; do not smoke; and do not do drugs. I am not planning on starting now.