Be sure to check out CAMPFIRE WRITING for awesome worldbuilding recourses: https://www.campfirewriting.com/write/for-novelists?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=S_Q1_22
It’s only because Elden Ring is SO good that I’m annoyed so much.
My novel, Shadow of the Conqueror Audio Book affiliate links:
US: https://www.audible.com/shadbrooks
UK: https://www.audible.co.uk/shadbrooks
CA: https://www.audible.ca/shadbrooks
AU: https://www.audible.com.au/shadbrooks
Ebook, Paperback and Hardcover available from most major book retailers, here are a few of the main ones:
Amazon affiliate link (be sure to navigate to your country’s amazon site):
https://amzn.to/2XErUaR
Barnes and Noble:
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/shadow-of-the-conqueror-shad-m-brooks/1132130546
Kobo:
https://www.kobo.com/au/en/ebook/shadow-of-the-conqueror
If you like the content and want to support the channel, you’re welcome to do so through patreon or subscribe star:
https://www.patreon.com/shadiversity
https://www.subscribestar.com/shadiversity
Awesome Shirts and chainmail print clothing: https://teespring.com/en-GB/stores/shadiversity
Visit Calimacil for the best replica foam swords and LARP weapons: http://calimacil.com?aff=38
Buy my sword IMPERIOUS from Calimacil: https://calimacil.com/products/imperious-larp-sword?aff=38
Come check out my new channel KNIGHTS WATCH: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCubCObW93mbrIFoxwNamFFw/featured
Community run discord server: https://discord.gg/a3NJVh7
My official website: https://www.shadmbrooks.com/
source
To be clear, it's because Elden Ring's worldbuilding and story are SO GOOD that I'm pissed off that it couldn't even give me enough of a taste, in the game itself, to make me invested, which it could have easily done because the story is incredible. Instead, that bare minimum has been purposefully obscured and hidden by the developers. If it wasn't this good, I wouldn't have cared.
Also, not my first souls game, just the first I liked so much to bother looking into the story.
Btw your way wrong about the golden order, the golden order is a school of magic that came to existence after the formation of the elden ring, before that the academy of lucaria were the head of magic in the world but the golden order comes to be and then the academy becomes obsolete, the elden ring shatters, now they’re chance to take power back is now
I agree with you that a story should have enough draw that its audience wants to progress the story till the end. I also agree that a story which fails to do this is objectively bad, regardless of how rich the lore and world building is.
That being said, Elden Ring is not a *story*, and you cannot separate it's narrative aspects from its gameplay medium. It would be like trying to compare a picture to a 3D space.
Players progress the game not only because of the story, but the satisfaction of overcoming obstacles. This style is a cornerstone of FROMSOFT games and is why they're so unique. Whether it's beating a boss, completing a puzzle, or in ER's case, progressing a story path based on vague clues scattered throughout various NPCs and item descriptions. The journey of the player vs the journey of the character(s) is something that can't be viewed exclusively in this genre. The overall player experience can not be viewed separatly from it's narrative continuity, they are one in the same.
If you take the story from any of FROMSOFT's games and wrote them out like a book, they'd be a somewhat jarbled mess that looks more like a chronological list of events than an actual narrative. That's because your journey though the world, complete with all your deaths and hardship, is the narrative.
Of course, whether or not this style is actually "good" is up for debate. The sheer number of players who play these games purely for the gameplay and have no idea what happened in the story even after finishing the game clearly shows there's an imbalance in this style of presentation. I think that's more based on the personality of the player than fault of the game, and that what players get out of these games is directly proportional to how much they invest into them.
Tldr, I'm not saying Elden Ring is a good or bad story/narrative, rather that your analysis and approach in separating narrative from gameplay is flawed.
Great video. Sums up why I stopped playing after I'd gotten everything I wanted out of the gameplay. This is one of the best games I've ever played from a pure gameplay standpoint but I just could not care less about what was happening in the world. Who is this boss? Why am I fighting them? Why do I care? Why do I want the elden ring? I still have no idea after 100 hours. Reading item descriptions to find out what is going on is like reading an incomplete codex out of order. It's just not a palatable way of taking in a story. All that being said still one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. From software is never going to change, poison swamps and unclear narratives will always be there for us lol
But I don't like watching cutscenes or talking to people. I want the story to be optional. If I'm spending a lot of time having the story shown or told to me then I lose interest in the game. Thats why I love from software so much
So you're saying the Elden Ring is the Triforce from Legend of Zelda, and once shattered, the remnants seek out those who most embodies its aspects to empower them?
havent finished so cant be listening to spoilers but dont feel too harshly about criticism or insults from others, we all go mad… sooner or later, be kind to your fellow hollows, everyone
I personally really like the way FromSoftware tells a story. You're basically thrown into a world that you know very little about. You get SOME info from the opening cinematic, but not enough to form a full picture of the world. However, by talking with NPC's and reading item descriptions of everything you get, you start piecing things together. However, I fully understand why some people don't like that type of storytelling. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this matter.
Margit hurt you didn't he?
I love the game, but I still agree with you 🙂 Too few clues about what's going one, hell not even crumbs at times 😀 I've played a lot and still haven't completed the castle after The Fell Omen 🙂
"I don't like doing that!"
You forgot the game main objective is to make you suffer.
Man, sometimes I just wanna log in to get a hug from Fia and then go play something else
Your point about the black knives completely misses the point of the night of the black knives, which was literally an undercover conspiracy to kill godwyn and start the shattering.
Key words being: undercover and CONSIPIRACY.
Fromsoft should hide bodies. No one would be able to solve the mystery
I personally find it genius because there are 2 types of gamers. the kind that just wants to go and beat bosses and just play a videogame. and those who want to indulge into lore and story. darksouls/darksouls 3 and bloodbornes story, isn't primarily told through item descriptions. it's told through the environments. things are placed not just because of game design, but history. item descriptions and npc dialogue had always given bits of context to those enviromental features. but it's something that needs to be learned. you need to slow down. and be curious in a world that doesn't hold your hand. you are alone. even when you want to know a story.
The way that you are explaining how Elden Ring doesn't explain the story at all makes me feel like we played to different games. Maybe it's because I am used to Soulsborne storytelling, but I also got a pretty good understanding of the game by just talking to NPCs.
i just assumed we as tarnished were similar to the ashen one of dark souls
Imagine if, to understand the world of Middle Earth, and to fully enjoy the Lord of the Rings, you had to go read the Silmarillion. That’d make the LOTR series bad books.
Of course it's not finished it's supposed to be a three-game series that I haven't came out with the other two games yet you're jumping the gun
You could always try games like call of duty, that might be more of what your looking for. Elden ring is amazing
I can't bash you for your opinion on the games story. I'm sorry you don't like the story telling style of elden ring. I'm sure there are readers out there that don't like your story telling style just like there are readers who don't like Steven Kings story telling style. It's not for everyone, but I will say that elden ring gives you more of a story and purpose than most of the other soulsborn games out there, even the sights of grace have glowing trails leading you to areas of importance. I also feel that the decision to continue to leave much of the story obscured, is because of this new open world aspect and the game directors desire to see the players explore and uncover the secrets of the world in between.
Elden ring is a story that requires you to pay attention to words said and not said as well as item descriptions. You can get the entire story from the game without looking at outside resources by looking at the environment of the area, the items and descriptions found in the area and why they might be there and good critical thinking skills. Hypothetically if two people had a perception score of 4 and 5, that being perception giving you the ability to see details in a painting, story etc. now say Elden ring is a painting and the person with a higher perception sees a few things the other person doesnt that gives them some clue of the message being conveyed by the artist or artists. Each person having the clues they have perceived after taking the same amount of time ( ie they both completed the game) and each communicate with each other what they have found and the conclusions theyve come to. Now they both realize they have come to drastically different conclusions on the end message they feel they were meant to take away. Neither are necessarily wrong with what information they have but one is more informed on something the person with the lower perception is not. This creates the ability for unique play through experiences where the more informed you are the more the story can make sense of but it is not guaranteed you will come to the same conclusions as those around you even if presented with the exact same information as everyone else. If this game story telling type doesn’t appeal to you that doesn’t make it a failure its just not something for you. The game has multiple endings because they expect people to make different choices from one another but the road you travel to get to the end doesnt require you to understand anything about its history. It comes down to your ability to critically think or if you will do as you are told because an npc told you so.
You make a good case, Shad. I agree that as a story there is a significant hurdle before every 'reader' in the persuit of understanding Elden Ring's reality that few overcome by their own initiative. I have one thought that occurs to me you may not have considered entirely. Though similar to the idea of mystery to draw on curiosity, it is different in its conclusion.
"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." – Proverbs 25:2, KJV
There are many occasions where one could accuse a content creator for assuming their content consumers lack intellect and perception – be it of works of fiction or facts of reality. Perhaps it is not that a game-developer is responsible to present the keys to the nature of the reality of their crafted world, but that it is the responsibility of the player to seek out and discern the truth of that crafted world… and so too – I propose – it is our responsibility to seek out and discern the truth of our reality of the world crafted by greater hands than ours.
I agree! i rather interact with the story and got involve with it through gameplay! this is more like find and read 1000 pages of novel that they put in the game for the context
All of your answers can be easily answer by completing the NPC quest-lines.
22:05: If I had to guess, it would be that they felt that if they had called it Elden Rune, it would have been immediately obvious as to what the quest was to do with, and what the focal point was.
By hiding that by calling it 'a ring', it means that the player boyh goes into the game with a wholly fresh, blank perspective, and thus they only learns what it's all about, at the points where their character makes those discoveries: A kind of retroactive spoiler, to try and prevent players thinking ahead and anticipating the story 👍👍👍
You have no idea what you’re talking about dude.
I got literally everything you went over from the game itself. Albeit in small pieces and not always in proper order. It's pretty much all there, you've just got to play religiously without eating or sleeping until you've met every single npc and exhausted every piece of dialogue and read every bit of info for every item/key item. Not hard to do really.
The number of downvotes being invisible to the public is so boring, I'd want to see how this video is scored
"there was not enough hand-holding for me" in a almost 60 minute video
Git gud….at understanding stories in games
Bullshit. Vaati will be the first to tell you that his videos are nothing but his own interpretation of the elements he was given. FromSoft’s game lore has always, always been obscure and largely open to interpretation. The major draw for their stories is that it can be read so many different ways depending on how you approach it as an individual. No two people came out of Dark Souls 1 with the same understanding of Ornstein’s or Smough’s role in the world. No two people came away with the same understanding of Izalith and its development, and plenty of people didn’t even register the fact that the demons had their own culture and society. That urge to dig deeper, discover, and interpret is exactly what drove the lore community for over a decade.
I am fairly certain that the lore videos you watched when you referenced that they were completing the story from tweets from the developers are quite old. They were created when we only had trailers and tweets to go off of. I'd give it a little while longer and the real lore videos where they gather all their information straight from the game will be coming out.
The Brazilian Portuguese translation was very poorly done, some items have their description totally wiped off, for a game where much of history is on their items that's a low blow to us.
Totally agree. I love this type of storytelling when I can actually piece it together with what I can find. And not when vital parts of it simply don't exist and you have to speculate, often in completely bad ways.
I feel as if a lot of criticisms of Elden Ring's story that you're making here are simply a difference in tastes. Miyazaki, in previous titles, has very rarely ever given the player the "full picture." There are even still mysteries about details in Dark Souls 1 that are only now just being solved, like the true story of Siegmeyer's questline and all that.
I am drawn to these kinds of stories because, while a lot of it can be found through reading descriptions and exploring, some things are just a matter of interpretation. In my opinion, it makes the games a lot more fun to talk about.
literally all the information shares in the tweets it's present in the game
Destiny Players: First time? 😂
I'm sorry Shad, I just don't think Fromsoft is your cup of tea.
You fail to understand that, like their other games. From Software leaves things vague so that the DLCs can come in and explain literally everything you had a question about in the main game. Just wait like a year and youll get what you want.
"What's the name of the girl that gives you the Horse?" "Malenia. Yeah, don't confuse her with Melina."
Either that was a clever way of pointing out easy it is to mix them up, or an accidental way of pointing it out. xD
Chad, these games are meant to be a chore and cryptic, as in consuming as much of your time as possible and leaving you with questions at every corner.
Fans are proud about having to do this as it works as a barrier of entry for the game, a form of gate keeping, which works wonders as I really these games as good looking and have interesting gameplay but the whole "chore" aspect really turns me down.
But the game is targeted for people that have lots of time to spend and/or people that feel proud about "investing" all that time figuring everything out.
The whole "get good" argument revolves around this time investment.
For me, learning boss patterns is a chore. Being almost forced to check the Wikis to complete the quests faster and go to the fun parts is kind of a turn off but I bet the fans love it… And the game is for the fans, not for us…and that is perfectly fine.
The fans are supporting the games and therefore the studio should give them what they want and love, in that sense, the game is perfect for its audience and it shouldn't be for everybody.