Josh Strife Hayes talks about Lost Ark and it’s store, “Is it Pay to win” and what determines pay to win in MMO’s.
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I see everyone acting like Lost Ark is the second coming of Jesus but i found it SOOOOOO boring i can't fathom how it garners this much praise. It feels like playing an ad for a shitty mobile game.
haven't played Lost Ark yet but if you can buy things like strong items or level boosts with real money, that's pay to win. things like cosmetics don't count yet a lot of people consider that pay to win. it has to actually benefit your character's progression.
Doesn't he lose his argument towards the end there by defining it by a max? Lost ark has a max. Relative to subscription kr mmorpg 1.5yrs for bis gear isnt crazy.
Hahaha, that ending!!!
you are just trying to be edgy
I played lost ark for the PVP mainly and it is quite fun. I played with a few friends in a VPN on Russian servers and what annoyed the absolute shit out of me was the fact that you couldn't progress unless you payed money for the upgrade stones or whatever tf it was, to level up past you're current cap. The level you reach to 50 – 60 I think and also uses black desert's way of levelling where once you get to say, level 50, you kinda grind to a halt on XP gain. Then you have all these other activities which are just pseudo activities like those boss dungeons that give upgrades to gear but not enough to get past the cap without spending ACTUAL money. Korean servers had something cool which is the selling of good pvp gear from the pvp merchant. Only in Korea though. In order to play the Korean version of the game or even just on their servers you had to purchase an account from third party websites, where the accounts were made in Korea because they require a certain code that proves you are Korean resident. I really really really enjoyed the PVP and the combat was really good but I knew immediately that I couldn't invest anymore time into the game without spending a significant amount of money on it. It disappointed me a lot much like with neverwinter. The game has really lovely combat, fluid somewhat and the hits on enemies felt good and the classes were original to an extent but just ruined cos money. Ugh… I'm just going to buy guild wars 2 and be done with it, honestly.
Great videos btw man. Really goddamn good. I learned a lot about your analysis on so many MMO's and hate predatory, money bleeding, cash systems in these games. All want to do is have enough content to suffice me and fulfil what I'm looking for in the game until I feel like the game is worth my money and not be forced to spend simply to just keep up with friends or because there isn't any other way.
Yes.
what is acutally pay to win there my man ???? what are you talking about its pay to progress faster nothing else pvp is fully ballanced and gear independand pve also has plenty of 1 shoot mechanics you can have 1milion gear score and still get 1 shooted change that suit you wearing stop talking bullshit get some gaming equimpent and play the game stop talking nonsense you are really looking pathetic.
Its so crazy how he got the voice of a 90 year old palliative care patient but looks like 30
also its very booring… bought founders pack 100usd and already quited this game is so fking booring even osrs way better then this shit game
I thought everyone knew that, but the argument was "how much"… until I went to the cesspool of Steam forums. People are literally and I do mean literally, trying to define p2w as "ability to buy +1 sword in the shop that can't be obtained otherwise". It boggles my mind.
This is such an unhinged take with lack of nuance that it's really disrupting. It allows the industry to do what it does, since by that simplified and archaic take, pretty much about four games are p2w in the entire world. No. Valorant isn't p2w. Lost Ark is. Additional analysis might reveal the degree of it.
In Lost Ark you can see it everywhere you go, since it's so ingrained. The degree isn't high in vertical sense (or at least not in the beginning), but oh boy, is it insane in horizontal sense. Pretty much everything I've done requires some finite resource, even things that typically don't. On top of that, some things employ mobile game strategy of "this will take 10 hours, BUT it can take less if you pay up". "Pay up", of course, being a currency that you can replenish with real money. A lot of rewards are finite and per-roster as well, with the roster system making sure you don't make "proper alts", since all characters on that server are tied to the roster.
is world of warcraft pay to win because I can buy gold and pay echo/limit to funnel me full mythic gear?
I had no idea this game existed until a million cash cow NPCs made it rise to the top of ProtonDB.
I playing Lost ark while it started… first thing what i see after i hit the lv-and itemst… the game is not let you progress if you dont pay… xD i mean.. its lets you progress… but so super slowly i cant belive it. there is a dungeon what gives you one of the best items what you can get in your Itemlvl… and you can only enter once a week… paying people can 7times… WTF? + they can buy a lot of advantage/power per day its unbeliavable… i try to enjoy this game but its not let me enjoy it… im a little bit dissapointed. maybe some twircher have the point, after the hype people will see it its a super grindy p2w game 😀 at least for now everybody try to enjoy it for a while 🙂
Pay to win definitely, put money in or grind for thousands of hours …
Lost ark reminds me of those lv 1 noob vs level 65 pro games/ads. The entire game.
You can buy mats for upgrade with currency. Yes it's pay to win. Is it a fun game? Yes. For pve is this true but at least pvp isn't.
Kinda can't believe you think it is pay to win… The game if anything is Pay to Fast. I'd recommend you play the game. There are a lot of limited things, you can't go pass a point, and everyone benefits from currency exchange.
Looking forward to seeing you tear this bullshit game to shreds.
I'm not sure I agree with Josh's definition of pay to win. It kinda implies that as long as there's some kind of cap the game is not pay to win, so a lootbox system which can, but doesn't have to go ad infinitum (that crystal thing in one of the games recently released in the west, I forgot the name, even has another cap on top of it) isn't pay to win. And Josh himself called the game mentioned by me pay to win by the way
Pay to win means buying a super weapon that has 500 more dps in the store that is unattainable in game. Lost Ark is really just Pay to Progress we can all achieve the same outcome regardless of paying or not.
Its play to win 🙃
If two people play the game for the same amount of time, even if they do the exact same things (pre-determined progress path) but one of them pays for it, then the person who pays will clearly have an advantage over the person who didn't pay, otherwise what would be the point of buying the currencies in the first place ? Cosmetics sure fine, but RNG gear upgrading and that is the ONLY way to get stronger, that is awful
Lost Ark is not pay to win in PVP. because you can't get stronger than your opponent no matter how much money you spend. your gear will be scaled down.
it is pay to progress faster, but not pay to win. you can do anything that other people spend money on. you just do it slower.
Except Lost Ark has a limit for how strong you can get with money, shut up
Totally pay to win, i reached 580 gear score as a free to play player, picked all tier 1 materials and now i cant do anything to upgrade. UNLESS i swipe my card and buy materials
Everyone already knew it was p2w its a f2p game … 1+1….. but no one obviously cares that game is booming. Also every mmo has p2w aspects and if they don't theirs a gold site to make it p2w
I just learned something. No matter how geared you are. If you mess up one of the boss mechanics, your whole party will wipe. So yup there is 0 percent pay to win in lost ark pve wise. I am not getting a monkey whale in my team
literally nobody cares
I agree, it's pay to win trash.
I'm okay with it being p2w .if the money they get are being converted into making into new content😊… usually people hate p2w game bcoz the game doesn't release enough content for the players.
Wdym Josh?
Your definition of P2W is NOT the same as people in general at all.
LIterally if you CAN pay 300USD to get stronger, it is pay to win.
EVEN if it's capped to 300USD.
That way, if you buy an expansion and it makes you stronger, it IS pay to win. TO WHAT EXTENT is a different story.
And as you said before, p2w doesnt mean it's a shit game, it just means you can pay your way to a W of some sort. Is it still just as fun without paying is the real question.