Today we take a look at how the air wings of the USN and IJN fleet carriers changed over the course of 1942, the most critical year of carrier development in the Pacific.
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Pinned post for Q&A 🙂
One small critique as far as presentation: I think it would have really helped to actually put some numbers on the screen while you were going through the air groups for each battle. The silhouettes were nice, and yes most of us can count by 3s fairly quickly, but it's still a distraction from trying to focus on what you're saying. As a teacher myself, I know it tends to lose people's focus if I'm verbally throwing tons of numbers at people without visually showing any of them. The whole point of the video was the numbers of different aircraft types and looking at the trends, but we never got to actually see any of that until the last part.
Just putting a number under each aircraft type, along with maybe an indicator of how much it's increased or decreased since the previous battle, would have made a big difference.
Also, different subject and just me obsessing a bit, but the Japanese light carrier's name is Ryujo ("RYU-jo"). I can't help chuckling a bit when you always pronounce it "RU-jyo"
https://youtu.be/Ql6BP0hTv2c?t=378 (man that video was a while back 😁)
Poor episode. Like someone reading Excel spreadsheet..
Drach refers to ships as 'take off and landing platforms ' disappointed, almost unsubscribed. 😊
I am so excited for this one
Excellent coverage Drach, and I'd love to see both the evolution of the RN air groups in Europe, and the USN/IJN going forward in the Pacific.
The fact that Devastator was no longer in production didn't help.
The USS Enterprise was not at Coral Sea because she was escorting the USS Hornet who had her deck filled with the B-25 for the Dolittle raid. Yorktown is not a sister ship of Lexington but her own class along with Enterprise and Hornet. I’m sure that you already knew that.
Drach. The graphics with the planes are cute but I personally abhor such, especially when there is no legend. I would prefer to have seen the percentage graph plus a set with actual numbers of aircraft since the latter would help visualize the actual numbers available as time went by. It would probably be very difficult to find the data but it would be interesting to see a graph on the change in quality of the crews over time.
Nice graphics.
In "The First Team", Lundstrom goes into how American carrier officers were screaming and scrounging for more fighters, especially after Coral Sea.
14:20 "Enterprise is in perfect balance, as of course, all things should be."
A THANOS reference? Drach, I swear your cultured side is just as amusing as your metaphorical side!
Hiya. I've really enjoyed watching many of your vids. I'd love to see you tackle the black hole in RN WW2 history which was Coastal Forces. You've done stuff on the USN boats but your take on our light forces would be very welcome. Vospers, sloops, Dog Boats, trawlers …. there's masses of stuff and I'd love to hear someone tell their story. Cheers V
With a title like that, how can you NOT click?
I for one liked the visurals, things get even more interesting in the later stages when the US starts changing from Dauntlesses to Helldivers. The TBM's during this time also do more bombing than torpedo dropping in the island hopping campaigns
Lundstrom covers this in his excellent books, but I’m not aware of any book that goes into the primary sources as BurAir etc that examines the actual back and forth discussion of the changes, who was advocating, and why. This is a lovely discussion but it’s a bit of the 30,000 foot view. Are you aware of any book that looks at the granular reports, letters and actual organizational changes? It seems like a logical book for someone to write, and I have been looking for something like that for 30 years, and even thought it would be a great doctorate dissertation.
Algorithm Engagement Comment.
Very good video. I liked the visual comparisons and the graphs. There are some interesting side twists to the Japanese numbers that I have only seen mentioned in Tully and Parshall's Shattered Sword, though with a LOT of digging I actually found other sources to back them up.
Incredibly, just before Pearl Harbor, the Naval General Staff ordered Aichi (the makers of the Val Dive Bomber) and Nakajima (the makers of the Kate torpedo bomber) to cease production and prepare to convert to newer designs. Aichi moved very slowly on this, because they were aware that the Judy Dive Bomber was not ready for production, so when the order was reversed, they had only lost about a month's production. Not so with Nakajima. They went at preparation to convert production with abandon, and as a result they produced no aircraft for several of months while the Kate line was restored. In fact, production went from over 100 in 1941 to only 56 in 1942. By 14 July, when the new air fleet reorganization was published, production of Kates had only just restarted and to compensate for the lack of air frames available, more Vals were added to the air groups. As the Kates arrived, the air groups were reorganized to compensate for their availability.
One other thing I noticed was that you included a number of aircraft 6th Kokutai, being carried aboard the four Japanese carriers in their fighter totals. Akagi had 6, Kaga had 9, and Soryu and Hiryu each had 3. These aircraft were semi-disassembled and were to be assembled and flown off once Midway had been captured. However, IIRC, some of the pilots did manage to fly CAP missions on the day of the 4th in fighters from the organic fighter units aboard.
Ryujo and Junyo, involved in the ongoing Aleutians operation at the time, did carry the 6th Kokutai aircraft in full operating condition, mainly because they had scratch air groups that were not up to full strength. The 6th Kokutai fighters onboard Junyo did double duty because Junyo's air group was so understrength.
This video certainly seems to have generated the best comments collection I've seen for Drachinifel…
Excellent work by both video author and comments authors, IMHO…
Finally, this Nation's ability to quickly turn to a war-manufacturing footing and build and replace losses in both planes and well-trained pilots was a major factor in winning the war on a scale that no longer exists…
Again, IMHO as an 89 year old who remembers his Dad joining the Marine Corps in Feb 1942 and his Mother going to work in a shipyard as a welding intern in May 1942…
What's really interesting is that by war's end, the F4U corsair was arguably the best dive bomber in the Navy, while doubling as a fighter. Also, had the war gone on the A-1 Skyraider would have joined the fight, leaving basically two aircraft to fill all roles, aside from a TBM or two per carrier.
F4U takes the role of fighter and dive bomber, while the A-1 takes the role of dive bomber and torpedo bomber. You end up with more fighters, as well as more bombers.
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I think the ability to fold the wings of their aircraft types changed the mix of an American air wing especially since the evolving fighter types became dual purpose when carrying wing loaded bombs and missiles.
My compliments to whoever sat through this without falling asleep…
I knew torpedo bombers were bigger than their fighter contemporaries but when I didn't realize how much bigger! As an example a F4F Wildcat has a roughly 38ft wingspan and an empty weight of 5000lbs. A TBM Avenger has a wingspan of >54ft and an empty weight of 10,000lbs.
It's Pearl Harbor, you twit.
J have long wondered if Yorktown went to Midway with its (presumably chewed-up) air group or if she embarked Saratoga's air group (the latter was just returning from the west coast after her first torpedo-hole repair), For Enterprise and Hornet, the squadron numbers matched the ship's hull number, while Yorktown's squadrons were VF3, VT3, VS3 and VB3 rather than VF5, etc,
Excellent video and the graphics were very useful in visualising the changes.
To add that the fighters were also starting to be used as light bombers and for flak suppression so their roles increased with their numbers.
The IJN was losing a lot of fighters as escorts for bombers attacking Guadalcanal. Japanese aircraft companies never mastered mass production. The output of IJN training programs wasn't adequate to replace pilot losses.
19:30 I wonder if the decrease in torpedo bombers on the US carriers had anything to do with the Americans realizing their torpedoes were crap?
The echoey voice over doesn't put me to sleep like the other recordings do. I enjoy falling asleep to these videos.
This was interesting. Thanks for doing the homework on this. The 3D renders were great and helped visualize the percentages.
US Navy doctrine was to use the SBD as anti-torpedo CAP during 1942. The Dauntless was too slow for this, but because as late as the summer of 1941 a large number of F3F biplane fighters were still in service as fighters, the SBD was at least as good as the F3F.
The Devastator ceased production in 1939 and the Avenger began production in December 1941. No wonder the number of torpedo bombers on American carriers dropped. Something like 100 TBFs arrived in Hawaii too late for the Battle of Midway to replace the obsolete Devastator entirely–six of those made it to Midway, but the six TBFs only made one sortie each–five were lost and one returned too damaged to fly again. Along with the B-26 losses, the Devastators actually were more successful than the newer planes but there were only 39 Devastators left in the US Navy after Midway and the TBD was out of production for about 3 years. The number of TBD couldn't be increased because there just were not any new TBDs to be had–whatever was on hand at the end of 1939 was the maximum possible number of TBDs that could have been assigned carrier duties. Since operational losses were a thing even in peacetime, the TBD supply was going to run out eventually. TBDs remained on the Atlantic aircraft carriers until sufficient Avengers rolled out the factory doors, then switched entirely to training units until 1944, about two years after Midway. Both the TBD and TBF/TBM had Norden bombsights for high altitude level bombing missions–the US Navy developed the Norden bombsight and used them on PBY flying boats and other aircraft.
The TBF was modified to carry a radar set and given additional forward-firing guns above its single .30 caliber cowl gun as the US Navy's first radar-equipped carrier-based night fighter, with ordinary Hellcats accompanying the Avengers. That's beyond the scope of this video, but until the air intercept radar was improved and installed on Corsairs and Hellcats, the Avenger was used for night interception of aircraft. I don't know if the night fighters were used against surface ships and submarines at night–it's something to consider in a future carrier air group video, especially for the CVE because anti-submarine work was a staple mission for CVEs on convoy escort duty and for the more aggressive hunter-killer groups. Convoy guards not only had to worry about submarines, but the fear of German surface raiders still haunted Atlantic convoys and the few Luftwaffe aircraft "diverted from important work" to interdict Allied shipping were best dealt with by carrier-borne fighter aviation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_TBD_Devastator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_TBF_Avenger
In future videos on the American carrier air groups, the ship-born fighter went from a single-purpose air-to-air machine to a multi-purpose fighter-bomber capable of carrying a light bomb load and/or rockets. In 1941 the fighter wasn't a strike aircraft and the "new" SBD Dauntless filled in as an interceptor targeting enemy torpedo planes. Torpedo planes were adapted for level bombing using the Norden bomb sight and targeted ground installations and ships in port with bombs–the torpedo bomber could carry a heavy bomb load at least equal to the dive bomber and accurately bomb above anti-aircraft fire. The dive bomber was more accurate and was more able to hit a moving warship but had to fly through defensive anti-aircraft fire to lay bombs on target. By 1944 Navy carrier-fighters were fighter-bombers. This shift in doctrine made the carrier air group far more dangerous. These fighter bombers might carry just rockets and be used to strafe Japanese ships in the AAA suppression role so that torpedo and dive bombers would have less trouble sinking Japanese ships.
I really liked your presentation, it was very informative. However, I wonder, would the Japanese Navy have been better off if they had replaced their 25mm AA guns with the 20mm , they were able to make those correctly and with the better weapons could have possibly been more able to defend their carriers, which might have given the Japanese more use of them before they were sunk? Your thoughts on that Sir. Thank you for your hard work.
The fighters are the carriers’ armor. The US discovered that they needed more, whereas the IJN could count on the superiority of the Zero and their pilots through the first year. After that, their edge in protection was gone and never recovered.
The thing I found interesting was that the Japanese seemed to be very much making do with what they could pull together, especially after Midway and the Eastern Solomon Island engagements. They simply could not replace losses effectively, so their tactical doctrine was more "throw whatever we have against them" than a real evolution of doctrine based on experience and results. On the other side, the Americans ARE responding with actual doctrine changes based on experience. Yes, the torpedo issues didn't help but the way US torpedo bombers were slaughters early on, especially at Midway, really pushed the doctrinal emphasis onto the dive bomber. But it was a reasoned decision, not a reaction to "we don't have any more torpedo bombers!" We had plenty, and could have had a lot more TBs if we had wanted them, but the DB was effective, and it needed fighter escort, and we wanted a stronger CAP, so…. More fighters, more DBs, fewer TBs. And lots and lots of 20mm! (and 40mm when it came along) Because… MORE GUNS! ALWAYS MORE GUNS! 😉
More fighters out there, means less bombers make it here.
Great information!