We all had high hopes when War of the Rohirrim was announced a few years ago–particularly since it was attached to Philippa Boyen, screenwriter of the original trilogy. So, Michael and I went out this week to see it in person (with our kids in tow too!).
Here, then, is our unabashed review of the film… the ups (a couple), the downs (too many), and the whys that remain unanswered.
We examine the following in War of the Rohirrim:
* The Animation/Art Style
* The Music
* The Characters/Acting
* The Dialogue
* The Story
* The Pacing
* The Lore
In our extended episode (available for our members at https://www.theonering.com/members) we talk about:
* What the movie SHOULD have been if it was lore-accurate, fleshing out a tail that focuses directly on Helm Hammerhand.
🎉 To get the extended episode, become a member at https://theonering.com/members ($4/mo and free for the 1st month) or at Patreon (https://theonering.com/patreon).
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It went wrong in only 1 way; it was made… Merry X-mas!
Awful fan fiction.
Anime style is far looser in terms of animation quality. Never try to compare it to western styles. They don't follow the same rules. It's an acquired taste and can vary very much from project to project and creator to creator.
I was expecting something as bad as rop and it absolutely was not. It was way better than I had expected and Hera wasn't anywhere near as bad as everyone keeps claiming. It's an anime where the framing device is that Eowyn is telling a story she likely got second hand from Gandalf. The only thing I flat out did not like about the movie was the music, it didn't try anywhere near hard enough.
Is it beard season,guys?😂
Merry Christmas, guys. I was so utterly disappointed as soon as I saw the first images. I'm a big anime fan and Rohan is my favorite kingdom of middle earth, so the combination was very exciting. Too bad it wasn't really anime, but "western anime" and that it also had nothing to do with the original story. Was a terribly wasted opportunity.
Héra is Phoebe Gittins and to a lesser degree Phillipa Boyens as they're the ones who wrote her.
Héra isn't John Ronald Reuel Tolkien's writing.
Where War of the Rohirrim Went WRONG?
They made it….
…Bazinga
I think the thing that annoyed me the most was her name.
As usual, stealing bits from other stories to try to improve their own nonsensical character swapping.
Frealaf killed Wulf: Ancalime of Numenor was the one who said she "would marry Uner (which is "Noman", whom I prefer above all others".
Its just more nonsense made worse by being a cartoon.
This will be a long post so you can check out of it now if it too long for your tastes.
I saw the movie on opening weekend. It is infinitely better than RoP and it does feel like Middle-Earth to me. It's not a bad movie and I did enjoy watching it but it's not a particularly good movie either.
There were a number of things that I don't feel fit that well with what Tolkien wrote but the major problem I have is making Héra, who was really a tertiary character in what Tolkien actually wrote, into the protagonist. This was a simply a big mistake because it's not the tale Tolkien wrote and we were told was being adapted. No, I don't agree with the idea that this change is OK because it is an adaptation; it's still based on what Tolkien created. Yes, I'm aware that Jackson's films made changes as well; I disliked quite a few of those changes. But what they did here was basically give Fréaláf's role to Héra. Once Helm died, the movie should have gone back and forth from the Hornburg to Dunharrow instead of giving one small scene to Fréaláf before he and an army of the Rohirrim showed up at the end. And yes, you can make that work. After all, in The Two Towers and The Return of the King, depending on exactly what point we are in of the story, we are following as many as 4 sets of characters in different locations. The final fight between Héra and Wulf is cringeworthy, particularly having her fight in a wedding gown, and so are the final scenes. The movie went downhill after Helm died.
I actually got frustrated with what they did with Héra because I liked most of what they did with the character early on. She was smart, clever, and could think fast on her feet. She was interesting. But they blew it at the end. I'll watch the movie again but not in the theaters. In comparison, I watched all the Hobbit trilogy movies several times in the theaters and the LOTR trilogy movies far more times than I remember. In the showing I attended, the theater was only about a quarter full although some of that was undoubtedly due to some unpleasant weather we were having. Another thing I noted was that there was no applause when the credits rolled whereas I remember the LOTR movies getting applause at least most every time I went, sometimes standing ones.
Initial box office returns are disappointing. I've heard the argument that Warner Brothers mainly made this movie to retain their rights to make more movies. But I can't help but wonder that if this movie ultimately ends up a money loser that WB might reconsider their plans. A Tolkien movie should be one that has people eagerly waiting for it to come out and that doesn't appear to be the case here, even if most people who did see it liked it. In the showing I attended, the theater was only about a quarter full although some of that was undoubtedly due to some unpleasant weather we were having.
What follows, for anyone who cares to read all of this already lengthy post, is a list of issues I have with the movie.
1) While I was fine with the Mûmakil being present, "a watcher in the water" made no sense. It's pretty clear in LOTR that whatever that beast was, it was nothing anyone in the Fellowship had heard of, including Gandalf, Aragorn, and Boromir. But apparently they are common enough in Rohan that they are fairly unremarkable.
2) The appearance of a Great Eagle or Eagles marks an event of great significance. Yet here they initially show up to get fed like they are somewhat domesticated? The Great Eagles are servants of Manwë after all!
3) Who lets a couple of small children have actual swords and lets them go play at fighting one another completely unsupervised
4) The character of Olwyn doesn't really make sense. She's supposed to be a servant yet acts like one of the most powerful people in Rohan. She really grated on me.
5) Maybe I misunderstood what I thought was happening but there were 1-2 moments where events were happening in eastern Rohan but Dunlendings were showing up there instead of still being in the western border areas. Then suddenly the same characters are in Isengard.
6) Is it really feasible to build this giant siege tower in the middle of The Long Winter?
7) Why would Helm just suddenly vanish and cut off contact with his own people to start killing Dunlendings? He was still the king of Rohan.
8) How did Helm and Héra survive being out in this horrible, freezing weather while not wearing anything resembling appropriate winter clothing? They are not Valar. They are not Maiar. They are not even High Elves or Númenoreans. This pair should not be immune to surviving such conditions clad as they were. Yes, I know Helm was a legendary warrior king and he did eventually freeze to death but the way it was portrayed really messes with the ability to suspend disbelief.
9) Why do two orcs and a troll suddenly appear in the midst of this siege looking for rings? The whole scene comes off as completely contrived so they could give Dominic Monaghan and Billy Boyd a scene in the film even though it just didn't fit in the story.
10) Why did the Rohirrim wait to set the siege tower on fire? Seems to me they should have done that right away.
11) By the time we see that final fight between Héra and Wulf, Wulf has grown up to become a full grown man who has undoubtedly seen much combat. Héra may be unusually skilled with a sword but there's no reason to think she has been a part of Rohan's army and acquired the skills such a warrior would have. She never should have been able to win that final combat with Wulf as it is depicted in the movie, particularly as depicted with her wearing a wedding dress. A pure facepalm moment for me. It was roughly the equivalent of if Jackson and Co. had changed the Return of the King to have Éowyn leading the charge of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pellenor Fields.
12) We're cheated out of seeing Fréaláf's forces defeat Wulf's army and Fréaláf slay Wulf, which is what Tolkien wrote.
13) In such a deeply patriarchal society as that of Rohan, the notion that Héra should have become a ruling queen is completely at variance with the society Tolkien created.
14) Héra is depicted as very devoted to the people of Rohan yet at the end she decides to leave. Why? Surely she could have played a big role aiding Fréaláf in ruling the kingdom as a counselor.
15) Based on what was in the movie, only Héra knew about this 'collecting rings' business. So, how did Gandalf find out about this to send word that he'd like to meet with her? And seeing as Gandalf was so much the nomad, it seems more likely he would have come south to meet with her upon finding out about this.
Bottom line for me is I had high hopes for this movie when it was first announced and I saw many of the names that would be involved but when the trailer came out, it became apparent that we were going to get a movie depicting a tertiary character as the primary one. Sure, Héra deserved a greatly expanded role but not to the point where she took over the movie. The movie I watched was somewhat better than what I expected but so much less than what my original hopes were. And it's really frustrating to see that they had a real chance to make a movie that followed the story as Tolkien laid it out and they didn't do so. I wanted something good and what I got is something pretty average.
Modern everything SUCKS.
Given Eowyn is the narrator, maybe she's an unreliable narrator (as Bilbo is said to be in his version of events in The Hobbit). The movie is essentially in-universe Eowyn fanfiction of Helm's story 😀
Okay so I agree with you on a lot, but for you to say that Anime diminishes it, as if Anime is somehow an inherently inferior medium is just factually wrong.
Your take on Éowyn is flawed… She didn’t go because she wanted to fight for her people she went because she wanted to die with them.
Éowyn wanted to die before she found her place in the world and comfort with that.
I wouldn’t actually mind a completely original story set in middle earth, that didn’t violate canon and was well written and held to the general feel of Tolkien.
What I don’t want is bastardized versions of Tolkien’s stories.
They could have fleshed out the story of Helm and stayed true to Tolkien , but they went another way
I agree with you that ROP probably diminished the hunger for WOTR and that the medium also drove away some of the fans, even though I am not one of them and I love anime myself.
I would guess the trailers probably drove away some of the fans as well. The theater was half empty when I watched it as well
before " Rings of Power " ? really?? how can someone predict 200milion or even 50 milion with MADE UP GIRL BOSS in TRAILER ALONE?
Im disgusted with philippa boyens to be honest , disgraceful
4:30 I'm sure you can make great mature anime, I just don't think anime and lotr are a good match. I think a lot of the tropes and style anime fans like is not a good match for the earnestness that is lotr.
13:20 Hera does not kill a Mumakil, that was Haleth. Héra doesn't actually do much fighting at all in this movie, and she's not that good at it. The only reason she's able to kill Wulf is because Wulf sucks. He couldn't even kill an old woman.
She never marries…and nobody remembered the shieldmaidens ever again. 😂
It's a cheap and choppy anime telling a bs made up tale. Such a disgrace that Jackson, Boyens and Walsh produced this dud…
Idk I would love for them to make a animated series like Star Wars the clone wars. Can be fleshed out and can be lore accurate like the clone wars
This was the review I was waiting for.
First, I think they did a disservice to both Haleth and Hama. Haleth was killed defending Edoras after Helm's defeat at the Fords of Isen. That should have been seen as a heroic death. Hama was lost looking for food during the Long Winter.
In my opinion, the hero of the film should have been Frealaf as he could have gone from being a shallow youth to a leader of men.
Given that Helm was 50 when he died, you have to figure that Haleth was at least 30 and Hama was mid to late 20s. For reference, Eomer was 27-29 during LotR. You could figure that Frealaf was a similar age. It is not mention, but if Hilde was slightly younger than Helm, then she would have had Frealaf about the same time. Further, Hilde would have been married to a high lord of Rohan, likely a marshal of the Mark, like Eomund, Eomer and Eowyn's father.
It is likely that Haleth was a Marshall of the Mark, even possibly First Marshal, which would explain why he stayed behind at Edoras while the King went out to attack Wulf's forces. The First Marshall is responsible for protecting the King's lands. At the time of Theoden, there was no First Marshall as the King took that position himself. Theoden's son, Theodred was the Second Marshal and Eomer was the Third Marshal (his father, Eomund was previously Third Marshal).
By focusing on Hera, it distracted from the entire story, IMO.
Personally speaking I think anime as a style works way better for fantasy in general.
Tolkien, we think of it in terms of live action simply because Peter Jackson did it so incredibly well. However, I do think Tolkien overall tries to be more grounded compared to most high fantasy.
Had to drive home on Christmas Day so I can be back at work tomorrow, so I appreciate the company ☺️ Merry Christmas, Michael and Jonathan! 🎄
Girl-power cartoon. Just what I want to watch.
I am surprised that you think cartoons are not a good medium to tell Tolkien's stories.
I mean before the Jackson films, you have Rankin & Bass and Bakshi's cartoons. I suppose you disliked their cartoon adaptations of The Hobbit and the Lord of The Rings as well?